Riders held captive by aliens in South London - The Official Pictures

Posted by: David Hobbs-Mallyon on 21 March 2003

After what seems like an extended break, the Riders were finally back in action last night, following an invite from Alex S. to come and listen to the latest incarnation of his ever developing sistem. With Andy Weekes, and David C, also on the guest list, we were keen to arrive early to get a decent amount of our own music in. Fortunately, we could draw upon Dave J's encyclopedic knowledge of the local speed cameras to ensure prompt arrival at Alex's workshop.

To get us in the mood, Alex quickly opened a couple of bottles of bubbly - as this was just the start of the alcoholic proceedings, you will find almost universal agreement on how the sistem improved as the evening progressed into the small hours. To mop up the alcohol, Alex had also laid on an interesting mix of nibbles, gherkins, pickled onions and super-heated chicken wings, which of course are getting the blame for the odd sore head today. In the meantime, Tom was getting himself in the mood with his new found enthusiasm for incense and pyromania. Fortunately, we promptly sussed his game of creating a smoke screen to enable him to put more of his own records on without anyone noticing.

Anyway, a description of Alex's sistem is probably best done in five parts.

Firstly: Room - in many ways this is the sort of space that most of us lust after. The room I would guess is probably of about 30ishx30ish feet with very high ceilings - in theory great, but in reality when bare produces some real acoustic nasties which Alex has had to treat with an array of bass traps, absorbers and diffusors - in such a big space, just this element has been quite an investment.

Secondly: Sources: Vinyl is Alex's main source, and it's where most of the investment has gone - consists of something like LP12/Aro (I knew there was some Naim in there somewhere)/Dynavector XX-2/Dynavector P100 Phono Stage/Lingo (Weekes modified). For CDs, Alex has his new Densen Beat B-400 XS CD player which has been programmed with the very latest 'mood-emulation' technology which means that sometimes it will only play after much persistence and persuasion. This has been finished off with the superbly crafted and expensive Gizmo remote, which has a whole array of buttons, of which only the Pause is guaranteed to work.

Thirdly: Amplification: Consists of the Antipodean Dynavector L100 /HX1.2 pre/power combination

Fourthly: Speakers are by O'Heocha plus a Richer Sounds £150 subwoofer - description of the O'Heochas would be pointless. Mr Lees will be providing some pictures taken on the night that will show these in all there glory - in the meantime, below is a stock image taken from their official website.



Fifthly: Stands and isolation (gulp). Alex uses a combination of Hutter for the electronics, with additional Stratabase for the LP12 and Mana, MDF and Nordost Pulsar Points for the speakers. Of course it's all been put together scientifically.

On to the sound of the sistem, and first-off we got some of the nerdy stuff out of the way. Switching the subwoofer on and off showed that even with the cheapo model, in Alex's room, the sub (set to a minimal level) produced a fuller, less harsh and better integrated sound. After that we got down to some serious listening - not sure whether it was the extended break, but the music selections were generally pretty loud stuff - just as well as Alex's sistem does the loud stuff superbly - this was to include an awesome rendition of a Govt Mule track, and a top Rammstein performance. It's at this point, it's worth pointing out, that Alex's sistem has almost no Naim elements, yet there were bags of PraT and musicality - there are a few other brands out there that do it, if admittedly they are few and far between. Certainly in the room, the amplifiers really have to work hard to fill the space, and for the most part coped admirably. My attempt to trip the sistem with Kerosene by Big Black completely failed as it gave a suitably nasty performance. It was at this point that Andy Weekes and David C arrived - if they brought any string quartet music with them, it was promptly hidden.

For the first half of the evening, I would say that the award for top performer went to the Densen - with the LP12 being much more inconsistent. Not sure whether with Andy's arrival, the 'treat your vinyl nicely' gang took prominence, but the LP12 started to consistently perform above the Densen. Near the end of the evening our A/B test of a Shostakovich track on vinyl and CD had the vinyl trouncing the CD. At this point, the Densen got predictably huffy, refused to load CDs without multiple attempts, and absolutely refused to show any track information to anyone but Tom. Talking of Tom, around midnight it was noticed that he had gone missing - a search party was sent out. He was found on his knees chatting up a local feline - enough said.

The downsides of the sistem on the evening were all pretty minor stuff. Despite all the room treatments there are times when some of the subtler detail stuff just gets subsumed - wasn't helped by the fact that most attempts to play quieter stuff were considered as good times for a natter by all. The speakers which I must admit to being slightly dubious ahead of the evening showed themselves to work generally very well in the room, with good rhythm and dynamics. On the really big stuff, I would have like a bit more scale to them, but I've yet to hear a speaker that does everything. It would certainly be interesting to hear a better sub, in the room, or a couple of other speaker options that work well in the huge space that Alex has - I'd certainly be up for a return visit.

So many thanks to Alex for the excellent hospitality -I ’ll write some more on the music when Nick supplies the track listing and the pictures of the evening.

David

[This message was edited by David Hobbs-Mallyon on FRIDAY 21 March 2003 at 16:14.]

[This message was edited by David Hobbs-Mallyon on FRIDAY 21 March 2003 at 16:15.]
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by P
Nice one. But..

What's with the DHM pantomime horse leg juxtaposition?

P

Who was hoping for something a bit more outrageous and downright dangerously offensive.
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by Dev B
Fantastic write up and pictures guys! Smile

Dev
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by Alex S.
Thanks for the visitation, I really enjoyed it. I didn't enjoy this morning so much.

The sistem coped pretty well considering the thrashing it was given (not much more than its used to, mind), only really complaining when the Elvis Costello CD hit 3.30 on the volume pot. The chicken wings did seem to suffer though.

A few hi-fi points:

How can anyone claim I'm a cereal tweaker with such a simple arrangement of support devices?

I'm fairly happy with the levels of detail but David's right about scale. An expensive problem to solve, needing Obelisks as a minimum, probably Hawks or 2 good subs. Its great having a big room but it needs a big system to fill it. Its not so great having a lightly furnished, concrete floored almost cuboid listening room - the RPG traps, foams and diffusors are the bare mimimum required.

The cheapo sub (barely on, turn it up and all hell breaks loose) and the StrataBase do more or less the same thing: give a bit more body and warmth whilst on occasion throwing up timing and integration problems (less often than you'd expect though).

The Densen is fantastic at its price point, or any price point really, although the display and control software is laughable. The Gizmo is a very expensive and rather beautiful pause button.

The LP12 is usually very good. Nonetheless, Aros seem prone to noise pickup and mine has found some fairly loud noise to pick up. Need to find out whether its mains, earth or RF related, or all three.

A musical point:

This was very obviously an all-out assault! Thoroughly enjoyed all of it, with special mention to Nick Lees's consistently top class selections.

A general point:

Must remember never to allow photographs of self on such occasions, nor to find out the name of DHM's barber.

Thanks again, I seem to have been given some excellent red wine.

Alex
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by Paul Ranson
Aren't those pod things tiny!

I'd always imagined them standing chest high....

Paul
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by John Sheridan
quote:
How can anyone claim I'm a cereal tweaker

so you like playing with your breakfast do you? Smile
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by Alex S.:
How can anyone claim I'm a cereal tweaker


Well, Alex, if you're tweaking your breakfast you're obviously a cereal tweaker.

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I used to have a girlfriend who was like that. The breakfast table was covered with various boxes of tweeties, wheaties and flakies, and everything had to be just so.

Of course she was from Southern California, which you are not. I'd figured you were more a vodka-and-red-herring kinda guy. But I guess those were you pre-Daisy days...

Thanks for the great report. They are the best threads.

Herman
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by Andrew L. Weekes
Thanks to Alex for a great evening, seems I'm one of the few not nursing monumental hangovers today, since I had to drive home

Alex's system has certainly changed since I last visited, particularly impressive was the better balance of bass end to the rest of the spectrum, things have leaned up a little, but become more natural to me. I use IBL's though, so don't take my comments about bass too seriously Roll Eyes

I think that without any exceptions (I missed some of the earlier play) there was nothing that was played that I did not enjoy. An equal measure of both the systems ability to not get in the way, and the various riders excellent musical taste.

I even enjoyed (what little I heard) of the Barbie Girl remix - but I found out it was a 'Mixing It' play item which explains a lot - I'm a big fan of the wierd and wonderful that finds it's way onto the airwaves on a Sunday night.

The Densen CD player is a VERY impressive beast. The money has obviously been spent on some good engineering, and the cost savings were obviously made on the salaries of the not-good-enough-to-be-Microsoft-programmers that wrote the user interface software.

The player must have some kind of music / taste sensor built into the CD drawer - it spat enough of them back at their owners during the course of the evening Wink

It didn't do anything wrong though - it never drew attention to any shortcomings, just got on with the job in hand.

Musical highlights for me go to the Gov't Mule, and just about anything David J played (there was some excellent blues and good old fashioned guitars etc. in most of his selection).

The Elvis track was probably just a little OTT with the volume, something somewhere was clipping and things sounded pretty un-musical until Alex rescued his system from the terrorist onlsaught, by the clever and ingenious process of lowering the volume, which he has to do by walking to the preamp and turning a knob - how quaint Wink

The LP12 was sounding good for the time I was there, and I'm really getting the hang of wibbly-wobbly arm cueing now. I also circumvented protocol several times during the evening to sneak things on, whilst everyone was chatting - sorry Tom Smile

A great evening, and as soon as the my neighbours holiday schedule is known I'm looking forward to the TW riders 'Visit to the cheap seats', later in the year.

Interesting to see how they cope with the shock - can you get insurance against Audio terrorism?

Andy.
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by David C
Alex,
I just want to echo everyone elses thanks for a really great evening of loud music. I just wish that my neighbours were as understanding as yours.
Your system has really matured and fledged into something to be really proud off. I won't comment on the system, the music was far more impressive, which I think says it all
Best Wishes
David

ps, Tom, I seem to remember you saying that you spent a long time chasing the loca pussy ;-)
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by JohnMak
What a great thread!
I thoroughly enjoyed reading all the posts. It must have been a fun evening.

Very surprised to see the only item on Naim was the tone arm on the LP 12 yet everyone seemed to enjoy most of the music.

Good stuff
Posted on: 21 March 2003 by Rico
Thanks guys for a great informative and entertaining read. NOw with added pix - nice one.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 22 March 2003 by Alex S.
The reason I ditched Naim is twofold: The room and the money.

I was a contented LP12/32.5/HC/250 user for decades. Then two things happened, I had three kids and I moved into this room. I didn't have the money for 52/500 which I'm sure would have solved any problems but I did have enough for CDX/PSU/82 which didn't. This system didn't perform in my sparse, large room - it did the things that Naim does when its not working - harsh, aggressive. lacking in detail and finesse. I Supercapped the 82, I put the 32.5 back in - both moves helped in my context - more warmth and musicality. Then I bought a CDS2 - this helped a lot but I never thought the player gave of its best.

Then I had a long hard look at the value of my electronics and listened to alternatives from the flat side of 'Middle Earth'. So, to cut a long story short, I flogged the lot and bought the Aro, xx2 and all the DV and Densen stuff with the proceeds. Had I been rich I would have continued to the end of the Naim road and been delighted.

I'm happy with how things have turned out and at least the kids get to eat.

I think there's enough detail and power in the electronics but the former gets lost in the room and the latter cannot be translated fully by quite small speakers - so, if I get a windfall, I'll add more foam and bigger speakers.

Alex
Posted on: 22 March 2003 by Alex S.
BTW Just went to play something and found the balance shifted 4 stops to the right - may explain the odd sonic fluctuation Smile
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by Dave J
Eh, uh....what time is it....F*ck, it's Monday!!

I realise now that these 'long distance' visits necessitate a day off or a doctor's note and in either case I was out of luck. Friday demanded another early start and, as I had an extra half hour of travelling time after the TW drop off (actually more like 20 mins - I drove like I was qualifying for the front of the grid in Malaysia), I was knackered. Consequently, apologies to all for the lateness of my posting and a belated thanks to Alex for hospitality and venue.

Earlier in the evening, I had the opportunity to listen to David H-M's now fully run-in sistem, which is, as the kids say, sounding "awesome". It made for a useful comparison particularly as the point of reference was the Keb Mo track referred to earlier. All I can say is, David, do not even attempt to tweak anything, its sounding great, leave it alone or you'll go deaf.

So, Alex's sistem? As has already been indicated, we spent more time listening to music than analysing the equipment, suffice to say I really enjoyed it. Not overwhelmingly detailed but detailed enough, very revealing of the quality of the different vinyl we played, capable of pulling out the groove but without shouting about it, sounding all the while not Naim-like but still playing on what are traditional Naim strengths. I noticed everyone's feet tapping in time throughout the evening and Tom even had an air bass attack at one point so all was well.

At first listening, it didn't sound like it would go loud but it did and other than some brief clipping at about 3 o'clock on the dial, it coped remarkably well with what was yet another volume crazed session. The O'Hoecha's deserve credit for taking such abuse and remaining so unfazed. Couldn't figure out the bizarre hieroglyphics on the pre-amp, though.

I, too, was impressed with the Densen. Crap user functionality but great sound and really not that far off players costing 3 times the price, As the Riders only non-CDS2 member, I can certainly understand Alex's enthusiasm for this machine.

Honourable mention again to Alex's Chernobyl Chicken - being a vegetarian I didn't eat it but I was hugely impressed by the fact that the plastic container it came in, when nuked, produced it's own sauce.

Oh yes, and why when I come to compile my playlist do I always have several tracks less then anyone else?

Dave
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by Dave J
quote:

Because you're always late with them and can't remember?

You're a cruel man, accurate but cruel.
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
quote:
when I come to compile my playlist do I always have several tracks less then anyone else?

Dave,

So what did you play on the evening?

quote:
do not even attempt to tweak anything, its sounding great,

It's unlikely I'll be doing any tweaking for the moment. I did however get to compare a NAT01 to my NAT02 in my sistem at the weekend - now that was depressing.

David
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by Alex S.
Thanks for all those positive replies - the chicken wings seem to have worked their magic.

So, a question, which I'm sure you'll all answer honestly: Do you think I could keep the O'Heochas if I add a big, fast, good sub instead of a small, slow, crap one, or do I really need to change the speakers for Obelisks or bigger?

Alex
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Not sure

Alex,

After only one listen to your sistem, it's pretty difficult to get a handle on all the variables, and in particular your room. The volume pot at is lowest is set near where other people have their maximum settings. I'd be surprised if the better sub will improve the scale of the presentation dramatically, but as you've already mentioned most of the bigger speaker options are quite pricey. From what I heard of Obs in larger rooms, Obs should give you some impressive scale, but then your room may well highlight some of the issues I have with the bass of the Obs.

David
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Presumably loitering on your hands and knees by that car outside.

Are you sure you played the Berlioz?

David
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
btw Tom,

As I was trying to shout to you on the night, turn over the Sibelius record, and there should be a stunning version of Pohjola's Daughter on the other side.

David
Posted on: 24 March 2003 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Nick,

Next session I want to see you eat something - you're in denial.

David
Posted on: 27 March 2003 by Dave J
I did indeed miss off one of my tracks from the playlist. How could I have forgotten Buckshot LeFonque. Nick, you absolutely hated it.
Posted on: 27 March 2003 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Talking of hates, I had good fun listening to some "Truly appalling old jazz", and doubly bad, it was the remastered CD version. Personally I'd recommend it - seems a shame that Armstrong and Ellington didn't work together more.

Also ordered a Vol 1 and 2 boxset of the Govt Mule. Looking forward to that arriving.

David
Posted on: 27 March 2003 by Dave J
quote:
Also ordered a Vol 1 and 2 boxset of the Govt Mule. Looking forward to that arriving


Yeah, that was great.