EyeConnect, Mac Lossless and UnitiQute
Posted by: cycleallday on 02 October 2010
After reading the discussions I have loaded EyeConnect 1.6.7 onto my mac but find that although it streams ALAC files to the Qute there is no sound. The server works fine with any non ALAC file and sounds good. With ALAC the Qute says it is receiving a wave file and the buffer and countdown display all indicate it is working and receiving the file but there is no sound. Any body experienced this or have any ideas?
Mel
Mel
Posted on: 02 October 2010 by garyi
Mel.
Hi and welcome. All I can say to you is I never had any luck with eye connect.
If you are in the mood download XBMC for mac. Once in you need to point it at your music collection and scan it to the library and in the setting turn on UPNP.
For me at least this has been the most rock solid UPNP server.
Hi and welcome. All I can say to you is I never had any luck with eye connect.
If you are in the mood download XBMC for mac. Once in you need to point it at your music collection and scan it to the library and in the setting turn on UPNP.
For me at least this has been the most rock solid UPNP server.
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by Tog
Eyeconnect works fine if you are using aiff and don't mind it's slightly awkward idea of music file organisation or it's poor relationship with n-stream. So far it has been rock solid on my iMac and the files sound great on my Uniti (3.0.0)
If you want n-stream to use cover art - forget it.
Which is the problem. I think Naim want you to use their UPnP server (unitiserve) but have sold the Qute/Uniti on the basis of being able to use generic UPnP servers. These do work in a fashion but they are very basic and hardly do justice to the whole experience of owning a Naim.
I have no doubt the n-stream app works wonderfully with the serve but with other UPnP software it is little more than a replacement for the hardware remote.
Meanwhile Soolos/Sonos and Apple are providing their customers with a far better user experience with streaming implementations that work and control points that make Naim's offering look embarrassing.
Naim, you need to either release your software server or work with other companies to improve the user experience of streaming with your products.
Tog
If you want n-stream to use cover art - forget it.
Which is the problem. I think Naim want you to use their UPnP server (unitiserve) but have sold the Qute/Uniti on the basis of being able to use generic UPnP servers. These do work in a fashion but they are very basic and hardly do justice to the whole experience of owning a Naim.
I have no doubt the n-stream app works wonderfully with the serve but with other UPnP software it is little more than a replacement for the hardware remote.
Meanwhile Soolos/Sonos and Apple are providing their customers with a far better user experience with streaming implementations that work and control points that make Naim's offering look embarrassing.
Naim, you need to either release your software server or work with other companies to improve the user experience of streaming with your products.
Tog
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by cycleallday
garyi
Looked at XBMC but it seems like a replacement for itunes with the need to import music. I want to stick with itunes as my only music interface and go the UPnP server route. Did try to load it however and got no where - it seemed to install but could not get any interface to it so trashed it.
tog
Tend to agree with you but this is my first naim item and based on current experience they have no chance of selling me another. It would have been better if they had got options together for suggested and tested software which would meet typical itunes users needs and that includes apple lossless support as the preferred codec in many hifi mags for itunes users.
Looked at XBMC but it seems like a replacement for itunes with the need to import music. I want to stick with itunes as my only music interface and go the UPnP server route. Did try to load it however and got no where - it seemed to install but could not get any interface to it so trashed it.
tog
Tend to agree with you but this is my first naim item and based on current experience they have no chance of selling me another. It would have been better if they had got options together for suggested and tested software which would meet typical itunes users needs and that includes apple lossless support as the preferred codec in many hifi mags for itunes users.
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by garyi
No its not a replacement but I take your point.
Another option is Allegro Media Server, this was next in line for holding up well for me.
Another option is Allegro Media Server, this was next in line for holding up well for me.
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by Guido Fawkes
cycleallday
this is where I think a good dealer comes in - you need help getting your system to work - you should be able to explain to your dealer what you want to achieve and he will set it up for you (if I couldn't make it work and the dealer couldn't help then I'd return the unit).
some of the computer audio stuff is tricky to make work - so explain to your dealer what you want to do and he may be able to help you - it is good for him because you'll not be the only customer who wants to use iTunes and a good reputation never hurt any retailer
I'm in the fortunate position of having a PowerMac (server) and a MacBook - I connect the MacBook to the nDAC and can play songs from the PowerMac using iTunes sharing. Thus I'm not using UPnP - my networking is all proprietary Apple and, not surprisingly, just works. Once the digital bits are delivered then the rest of my system is all Naim and, not surprisingly, just works.
Naim has done a lot to work with Apple products so its DAC can play music from iPods; a Naim streamer that supported iTunes sharing would be excellent, but no idea if that's on the roadmap - such a device would make even me consider streaming. The problem for Naim is that if they went this way then they may be out of date when new Macs don't support last year's protocol. The only way out is to support computers is continuous software updates which is no fun for a relatively small company.
It is possible to stream your music through your Qute - you just need some help - hence recommend asking the folk who sold you your Qute as a first port of call.
this is where I think a good dealer comes in - you need help getting your system to work - you should be able to explain to your dealer what you want to achieve and he will set it up for you (if I couldn't make it work and the dealer couldn't help then I'd return the unit).
some of the computer audio stuff is tricky to make work - so explain to your dealer what you want to do and he may be able to help you - it is good for him because you'll not be the only customer who wants to use iTunes and a good reputation never hurt any retailer
I'm in the fortunate position of having a PowerMac (server) and a MacBook - I connect the MacBook to the nDAC and can play songs from the PowerMac using iTunes sharing. Thus I'm not using UPnP - my networking is all proprietary Apple and, not surprisingly, just works. Once the digital bits are delivered then the rest of my system is all Naim and, not surprisingly, just works.
Naim has done a lot to work with Apple products so its DAC can play music from iPods; a Naim streamer that supported iTunes sharing would be excellent, but no idea if that's on the roadmap - such a device would make even me consider streaming. The problem for Naim is that if they went this way then they may be out of date when new Macs don't support last year's protocol. The only way out is to support computers is continuous software updates which is no fun for a relatively small company.
It is possible to stream your music through your Qute - you just need some help - hence recommend asking the folk who sold you your Qute as a first port of call.
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by Peter_RN
Hi Mel
I don’t think that ALAC is a supported file format when streaming is it?
The manual states: MP3, AAC, Windows Media-formatted content, WAV, FLAC, Ogg-Vorbis… and…Apple Lossless (from ipod).
Now I don’t have any Apple product and may be making myself look a little silly here, but doesn’t that (from ipod) mean via the front USB/iPod port?
Now if that is how you are connecting this is of no help.
Don’t be disheartened, take Roft’s advice, once you find the solution that works for you and the Qute has come ‘on song’ I think you will be pleased with the SQ.
Regards
Peter
I don’t think that ALAC is a supported file format when streaming is it?
The manual states: MP3, AAC, Windows Media-formatted content, WAV, FLAC, Ogg-Vorbis… and…Apple Lossless (from ipod).
Now I don’t have any Apple product and may be making myself look a little silly here, but doesn’t that (from ipod) mean via the front USB/iPod port?
Now if that is how you are connecting this is of no help.
Don’t be disheartened, take Roft’s advice, once you find the solution that works for you and the Qute has come ‘on song’ I think you will be pleased with the SQ.
Regards
Peter
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by Martin Sixsmith
Hi Mel
I understand your frustration. Like many others using Naim equipment I successfully use DB Poweramp's Asset UpNp to stream Apple Lossless files but this is via a Windows format for which Asset was designed.
However, looking at their forum they do seem to suggest that it can also be run on the MAC - take a look at this thread ;
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=18952
Maybe worth a try since the software is free. Would be interested to hear how you get on.
I understand your frustration. Like many others using Naim equipment I successfully use DB Poweramp's Asset UpNp to stream Apple Lossless files but this is via a Windows format for which Asset was designed.
However, looking at their forum they do seem to suggest that it can also be run on the MAC - take a look at this thread ;
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=18952
Maybe worth a try since the software is free. Would be interested to hear how you get on.
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by Tog
Unnecessary - why complicate things - until Naim can provide access to the UPnP server they use on the UntiServe - using UPnP is awkward at best without adding crossovermac. Instead I may well use MBP > Uniti via Remote.
tog
tog
Posted on: 03 October 2010 by cycleallday
I have now uninstalled the latest version of EyeConnect and installed the earlier version which does seem to work with Qute. The ALAC files are being transcoded to wave and playing fine on the Qute.
However the interface is not the best and I get the impression Naim has tested its software to meet its design requirements and failed to do destructive testing adequately - it works if you do exactly as instructed but often fails if alternative keys are pressed during a play sequence and this then means having to go right back to the top of the menu and reconnect the UPnP player. Maybe they will gain experience over time- the sound is good however.
However the interface is not the best and I get the impression Naim has tested its software to meet its design requirements and failed to do destructive testing adequately - it works if you do exactly as instructed but often fails if alternative keys are pressed during a play sequence and this then means having to go right back to the top of the menu and reconnect the UPnP player. Maybe they will gain experience over time- the sound is good however.
Posted on: 04 October 2010 by Stevesky
Hi Guys,
The main problem here is that Apple as a company does not support UPnP, they have their own technology (iTunes and airPlay) so for a UPnP device that wants to work with Apple has to go via a third party piece of technology to adapt the two incompatible technologies.
If your system is heavily iTunes centric another option is use a Apple Airport Express with AirTunes optical digital output (Airtunes is old name for AirPlay). Connect that to your Qute or Uniti. See: http://store.apple.com/uk/prod...ort-Express-AirTunes
That way you can use the Apple user interfaces and streaming natively and its using the Apple approved route so *should* have good compliance when the iTunes software gets upgraded.
Regards
Steve (R&D)
The main problem here is that Apple as a company does not support UPnP, they have their own technology (iTunes and airPlay) so for a UPnP device that wants to work with Apple has to go via a third party piece of technology to adapt the two incompatible technologies.
If your system is heavily iTunes centric another option is use a Apple Airport Express with AirTunes optical digital output (Airtunes is old name for AirPlay). Connect that to your Qute or Uniti. See: http://store.apple.com/uk/prod...ort-Express-AirTunes
That way you can use the Apple user interfaces and streaming natively and its using the Apple approved route so *should* have good compliance when the iTunes software gets upgraded.
Regards
Steve (R&D)
Posted on: 04 October 2010 by jlarsson
Apple is building up something that can be expanded to a multi-room AV-system without a lot of nerdy configuration. And they are doing it with an interesting distributed/decentralized architecture where each laptop, iphone, ipad can send sound and/or video to various destinations.
If you want to run Spotify you run their app on the laptop or the ipad and simply tell it to send the output to, say, your Naim system. Same goes for internet radio etc.
I like it - it is elegant and solves the problem of waiting for someone to write a plugin for some media-centre before you can use it. Like Spotify for Sonus.
It would be great if Naim would support AirPlay natively on the HDX (so you could use an ipod as internet radio out through the HDX) or NDX but I'm not counting on it. Naim seem to be mostly PC-heads and centered on PC-technologies like UPnP (which is much more complex than AirPlay). So I will probably end up connecting Airport/Express and AppleTV to the DAC via toslink.
For music I prefer the lossless quality of CD:s and like the HDX-SSD.
If you want to run Spotify you run their app on the laptop or the ipad and simply tell it to send the output to, say, your Naim system. Same goes for internet radio etc.
I like it - it is elegant and solves the problem of waiting for someone to write a plugin for some media-centre before you can use it. Like Spotify for Sonus.
It would be great if Naim would support AirPlay natively on the HDX (so you could use an ipod as internet radio out through the HDX) or NDX but I'm not counting on it. Naim seem to be mostly PC-heads and centered on PC-technologies like UPnP (which is much more complex than AirPlay). So I will probably end up connecting Airport/Express and AppleTV to the DAC via toslink.
For music I prefer the lossless quality of CD:s and like the HDX-SSD.
Posted on: 04 October 2010 by Guido Fawkes
Thanks Steve - that is virtually what I do using the Naim DAC rather then the Qute and MacBook rather than airport express: I'm assuming airPlay uses Digital Audio Access Protocol - the sound quality is superb. The Naim DAC is a truly great product.quote:Originally posted by Stevesky:
Hi Guys,
The main problem here is that Apple as a company does not support UPnP, they have their own technology (iTunes and airPlay) so for a UPnP device that wants to work with Apple has to go via a third party piece of technology to adapt the two incompatible technologies.
If your system is heavily iTunes centric another option is use a Apple Airport Express with AirTunes optical digital output (Airtunes is old name for AirPlay). Connect that to your Qute or Uniti. See: http://store.apple.com/uk/prod...ort-Express-AirTunes
That way you can use the Apple user interfaces and streaming natively and its using the Apple approved route so *should* have good compliance when the iTunes software gets upgraded.
Regards
Steve (R&D)
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by Martin Sixsmith
I also had the same problem as Mel (no sound with ALAC files via EyeConnect 1.6.7) when I installed it on my wife's Mac this morning.
However, if you delete this version and download the earlier version 1.6.3 from the EyeConnect website then it plays Lossless files perfectly !!
What price progress !
However, if you delete this version and download the earlier version 1.6.3 from the EyeConnect website then it plays Lossless files perfectly !!
What price progress !
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by cycleallday
Martin , thanks for confirming someone else has this problem - I have now posted a ticket with EyeConnect so will see if they respond.
I do not wish to go the route of using other hardware - thats why I got the Qute to get it all in one package. As for Naims response to the UPnp issue I can only say logitech solved the problem of streaming lossless ok and with compatibility with PC or MAC, etc
I do not wish to go the route of using other hardware - thats why I got the Qute to get it all in one package. As for Naims response to the UPnp issue I can only say logitech solved the problem of streaming lossless ok and with compatibility with PC or MAC, etc
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by Martin Sixsmith
Mel, I should have mentioned that I am streaming to the Uniti but for sure, EyeConnect 1.6.3 is streaming Apple Lossless without a hitch.Have you tries it yet ?
Would be interested to know what EyeConnect tell regarding why 1.6.7 doesn't !
Would be interested to know what EyeConnect tell regarding why 1.6.7 doesn't !
Posted on: 20 October 2010 by cycleallday
Ticket raised but they are not getting far with solving it - though they are at least still communicating with me so still hopefull.
Would be good to know if anybody is streaming ALAC files with EyeConnect 1.6.7 successfully as this could indicate if the fault is with the software as I think or the configuration. Please respond if you have this working.
Mel
Would be good to know if anybody is streaming ALAC files with EyeConnect 1.6.7 successfully as this could indicate if the fault is with the software as I think or the configuration. Please respond if you have this working.
Mel
Posted on: 20 October 2010 by 0rangutan
1.6.7 on my Mac also streams silence instead of transcoded ALAC.
Fairly sure this is software and not configuration.
While you have their ear, any chance of getting FLAC support added too?
Fairly sure this is software and not configuration.
While you have their ear, any chance of getting FLAC support added too?
Posted on: 20 October 2010 by Martin Sixsmith
Mel, if you look at the attached link :
https://forums.naimaudio.com/ev...352906037#5352906037
you will see that the same problem was occurring with version 1.6.6 so it would appear to be a software issue. Stay with an earlier version (still available for download on the EyeConnect website ) and you will be fine.
Also, could you ask them to include album artwork ?
https://forums.naimaudio.com/ev...352906037#5352906037
you will see that the same problem was occurring with version 1.6.6 so it would appear to be a software issue. Stay with an earlier version (still available for download on the EyeConnect website ) and you will be fine.
Also, could you ask them to include album artwork ?
Posted on: 23 October 2010 by cycleallday
Well finally Ellagato have confirmed there has been a change in the transcoding since v1.6.3 but don't say if it will be fixed - see email below:
Hello Mel,
I've written up a bug report for our developers and I got some back story from one of the engineers. He says the audio transcoder plugin was rewritten to use CoreAudio instead of QuickTime when EyeConnect was ported to 64-bit. EyeConnect 1.6.3 is using the old audio transcoder. It's possible CoreAudio doesn't know about ALAC and Naim UnityQute, or it might be a 64-bit vs 32-bit issue.
Regards,
Andrea Lindgren
Customer Support
Elgato Systems LLC
900 Kearny Street Suite 750 San Francisco CA 94133-5145
http://www.elgato.com - http://support.elgato.com
Hello Mel,
I've written up a bug report for our developers and I got some back story from one of the engineers. He says the audio transcoder plugin was rewritten to use CoreAudio instead of QuickTime when EyeConnect was ported to 64-bit. EyeConnect 1.6.3 is using the old audio transcoder. It's possible CoreAudio doesn't know about ALAC and Naim UnityQute, or it might be a 64-bit vs 32-bit issue.
Regards,
Andrea Lindgren
Customer Support
Elgato Systems LLC
900 Kearny Street Suite 750 San Francisco CA 94133-5145
http://www.elgato.com - http://support.elgato.com
Posted on: 26 October 2010 by jpacaud
quote:EyeConnect 1.6.3
I had to down grade to 1.6.3 in order to be able to play my Apple lossless library (m4a). I has never able to have it work using the latest version of EyeConnect. I am running ITune v10 on Mac OX 10.6.4 but at least it is now working
