Twentieth Century Chamber Music
Posted by: herm on 13 October 2002
Darius Milhaud
Complete String Quartets
For the past few weeks I have been listening to Milhaud's String Quartets, and I have to say they have been growing upon me in a way I had not expected.
Darius Milhaud (1892 - 1974) was one of the Groupe des Six composers (like Francis Poulenc and Eric Satie) and an unusually prolific one, with a catalogue comprising 450 pieces. He wrote 18 string quartets, which now have been recorded by the Paris Quartet (Quator Parisii) for the indispensable Naïve label. The booklet says this ensemble played the Milhaud Fourth Quartet for the first time in 1984, with Milhaud's widow Madeleine in the audience, and they made a vow to her to record the entire oeuvre one day.
I'm glad they did. This box contains five CDs with excellent booklets each, and from the Fifth quartet (1920) onwards this music is very special, and by the time the war years have arrived (Milhaud spent the war in the Americas), this is uniquely beautiful music.
Milhaud doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve the way Shostakovich does. It's modern music, so it doesn't necessarily have the clearly delineated vocal phrases of classical writing (though sometimes it does). It's French music (with a distinct Latin / Mediterreanean slant: Milhaud grew up in the Provence) so there's a cerebral element. The 14th and 15th quartet were composed in such a way (1948-49) that they can be played as quartets, but they can be played simultaneously, too, as an octet. Spectacular, of course, but actually I prefer the 15th as a quartet.
I really prefer his wartime quartets, say, nr 9 (1935, admittedly), through 13 (1946). Quartet nr 11, (1942) with a great, tragic slow movement, and 18 (1950) with an extraordinary slow opening movement are perhaps the best ways to begin.
It's great music to chill out to. Many of these movements, particularly the slow movements ask for a repeat to let the discourse seep into your mind one more time. The finales are invariably fun, festive, 'Latin' pieces.
OK, so this isn't Beethoven, Mozart or Shostakovich. But it is definitely in the next tier. It's just very interesting music. A couple of times I have thought, let's post about it, and then I felt, no, I want to listen some more. It's mysterious music in exactly the right way. One's intrigued, and one will never find out exactly why. And if you're really interested in twentieth century string quartets, I feel this ought to be in your collection.
I'm opening a new thread, too, to invite contributions on modern chamber music, please. StephenJohn. Jack Rubinson, Ross Blackman, Todd Arola, Nick Lees, JarrettH, what have you been up to in this department?
I'm curious
Herman
Posted on: 13 October 2002 by Former member
I've been getting into Boulez: Le marteau sans maître, Repons, and starting Pli Selon Pli (though not as exciting). I can now appreciate why he is one of the greatest living composers.
Here's a concert coming up next month, in my area, with Boulez conducting his works!
http://www.karadar.com/Works/boulez.htmlElliott Carter - "Eight Compositions" I don't remember if they are all chamber works, but they are quite good from what I heard.
Lutoslawski - String Quartets, very interested....only heard a small portion of #2
Dutilleux - Ainsi La Nuit (for String Quartet)
I'll add more when I get home - I promise! I'm just not around my home music environment at the moment.
Posted on: 13 October 2002 by DJH
At some point, you have to move forward from the twin peaks of Beethoven's and Bartok's quartets, and try to follow the line further into the 20th century. It's quite a difficult line to follow, partly because there is still an appreciable "shock of the new", which makes it difficult for new work to compete with the accepted repertoire, which leads to there being relatively few good recordings of seminal works.
My own view of Webern has been completely changed by the recordings by the Artis Quartet (on Nimbus). For example, the "Sechs Bagatellen" are infused with a range of light, colour and emotion which is a world apart from the ascetic Juilliard versions on Sony. In the first half of the 20th century, I now see Bartok, Webern, Berg and Janacek as the key figures. Schoenberg and Shostakovich are not quite in the same league - although my view of Schoenberg has recently changed again by being able to listen to the Arditti Quartet's versions of his four quartets.
Going forward into the second half of the century, I think that the key works in terms of continuing the line include all of Elliot Carter's quartets and Ligeti's second quartet. I am still coming to terms with several pieces by Schnittke, Lutoslawski, Kurtag and Gubaidulina - in particular, Schnittke's second quartet is an immensely powerful grief-stricken piece. UK composers also figure - Thomas Ades' "Arcadiana" is a very elusive piece that I keep coming back to. Some, but not all, of Simpson's quartets are interesting (e.g. no.14), as well as McCabe's.
I am very interested in others' views as to what the key works are and how the string quartet line developed - there are several composers whose chamber works I have never heard, e.g Milhaud , Malipieri, Scelsi, Rihm, Reynolds, etc.
[This message was edited by DJH on MONDAY 14 October 2002 at 08:36.]
Posted on: 13 October 2002 by stephenjohn
Hi Herm
The last pieces of C20th chamber that I bought were Schoenberg and Carter string quartets[late spring]. Then something came along in my work that meant music took a back seat for a while. When I again got the time to listen to music as much as I like I found myself listening again to late baroque [Bach, Handel, Purcell, and Montiverdi] and ever so slightly dipping in to Shostakovich's quartets. I guess for the while I broke the continuity and had to go back to the beginning.
Posted on: 14 October 2002 by Todd A
I've been focusing more on 20th Century opera lately, but I did pick up a disc of string quartes by some Norwegian composers noted elsewhere. Most of the big names - nay, the essential names - have already been mentioned but I'll just list the most important in order: Bartok, Bartok, and then Bartok. After that, Shostakovich, Ligeti, Webern, Janacek, Carter, Lutoslawski, Berg, Kurtag, Dutilleaux, Pascal Dusapin, and Karl Amadeus Hartmann all come to mind. The first seven are all on the majors, the last four on Naive and CPO. (Hartmann's first quartet demands to be heard.)
I'll make another pitch for Erwin Schulhoff here. The Petersen Quartet's traversal on Cappricio is indispensable. The Hot Sonata for sax and piano is delicious. Schulhoff is one of my favorite modern composers.
Don't forget Heitor Villa Lobos. The Cuarteto Latinoamericano have a fine cycle on Dorian. Alberto Ginestara deserves inclusion, too. Zemlinksy ain't too shabby, neither. As luck would have it, I'm in the middle of the second disc of his string quartets on the possibly defunct/possibly revived label Nimbus. Korngold, too is good, as is Gubaidulina.
I have not tried too much Milhaud yet, though his quartets are on my list of things to buy along with Vagn Holmboe and Nikos Skalkattos [sic?].
I must update my original message, for I forgot to include Arnold Schoenberg. Obviously he is one of the greats - indeed, one of the greatest - yet I forgot to include him. Shame on me. His quartets are monumental and belong in every collection.
[This message was edited by Todd Arola on MONDAY 14 October 2002 at 18:57.]
Posted on: 20 October 2002 by DJH
In case anyone is interested, the Arditti Quartet site has a listing
here of many of the 20th century string quartet compositions.
Posted on: 20 October 2002 by Former member
I just don't get Gubaidulina. I heard a number of her pieces in the past week and there's absolutely no substance to them. Sounds like "blah blah, ok, blah". Only piece of her's I liked was
Garden Of Joys And Sorrows. I found little variation in her compositions. Nothing striking to listen for. I just don't get it.
Posted on: 21 October 2002 by Former member
Here's a quote from initial reviews of Black Angels by George Crumb (1970):
"The standing ovation given to the Stanley Quartet's superlative premiere performance of George Crumb's Black Angels came from younger and older listeners together as a spontaneous response to a work of authentic beauty and power ... Certainly one of the most important events of this (or any) musical season. It is time for the new music to enter the repertoire and not be segregated in special programs; this remarkable quartet could serve well to break the trail."
I think it's a fantasic piece. Quite chilling!
Some wonderful nostalgic phrases in it. What do you guys think? Of course I'd have to give to another listen to hear the references.
Posted on: 28 October 2002 by stephenjohn
Toru Takemitsu. A Bird came down to walk. Nobuko Imai. This thread inspired me to start listening to C20th chamber again. Now I've ordered this. [and some Szymanowoski, qt 1, Maggini].
Posted on: 28 October 2002 by herm
Posted on: 29 October 2002 by DJH
Several of Takemitsu's chamber pieces sound to me like a more accessible version of Messiaen - there are several phrases in T's Distance de Fee or Hika which appear to directly echo M's Quatuor pour la fin du temps, especially the two Louanges.
Posted on: 31 October 2002 by stephenjohn
Hi
The Toru Takemitsu hasn't arrived yet. In the meantime I have been listening again to Bax's 2nd string quartet on Naxos by the Maggini. It's got to be worth £4.99 of anyone's money. Interestingly it's his 1st [also on the disc] that seems to have recieved the most plaudits.
Posted on: 31 October 2002 by herm
DJH,
of course Takemitsu sounds like Debussy or Messiaen at times. Just like there's an occasional whiff of Schumann in Tchaikovsky. I love it; in fact it's much harder to pay homage to a master this way than to be a bad original.
One more thing about Milhaud, with whose string quartets I opened this thread. I got his symphonies, too, twelve pieces on on five cds, by the Basel Radio Orchestra, Alun Francis conducting.
Much as I like the string quartets, I have to say these symphonies have up till now (starting at number 12) failed to make the slightest contact with me. It's just a shower of musical ideas, weird episodes and, also, below par ensemble in the orchestra.
Herman
Posted on: 31 October 2002 by Former member
Herm-
Have not really listened to much chamber music by Mihaud, but based on your recommendation I will have to seek it out.
I much enjoy the string quartets of Alfred Schnittke performed by the Kronos Quartet. His music sounds at times much influenced by the Bartok Q's. The four quartets he wrote hold their own with the Shostakovich Quartets.
I am also enamored with the chamber music of Giacinto Scelsi. This composer is not well known by many; his works are very spiritual, difficult at times to understand, yet I find myself much drawn to this music. It is also very difficult to find. Most of the Scelsi I have, had to be special ordered. There is a two CD set of the the 5 string quartets performed by the Arditti Quartet on the Salabert/Actuels label, #SCD8904-5, distributed by Harmonia Mundi, France. Definitely not Mozart.
Jack
Posted on: 01 November 2002 by Wolf
Take a listen to John Adams' Gnarly Buttons CD from Nonesuch. It is actually the London Sinfonietta but the first part is "John's Book of Alleged Dances" by the Kronos Quartet and is really a lot of fun. They have names like Toot Nipple, Dogjam, Rag the Bone, Aligator Escalator and really are fun to listen to and challenging. Hope this turns someone else onto one of the great contemporary compposers of our time.
Glenn-"Toot Nipple"
Posted on: 01 November 2002 by herm
Posted on: 04 November 2002 by Wolf
Thanks for the connection, I never did see all the comments after my original post. I just heard N&S Music a fortnight ago in LA with Salonen concucting and Adams conducting another young composer's work. However, I like hearing all the detail on the CD. I had an intense Sat. night listening to his works and laying on the floor changed the sound so that Alleged dances had distinct separation. I like the sense of humor of those pieces. He has a really fresh approach to music that I like.
Glenn
Posted on: 05 November 2002 by herm
Hi Jack,
I just listened to the Schnittke's 4th Quartet, on that great recording by the Kronos. Of course it's really music you want to witness at a performance: Schnittke is very introspective and theatrical at the same time.
If you're interested in the Milhaud string quartets I would like to add to my opening post that Milhaud is (like a lot of French composers) not one to wear his heart on his sleeve. Compared to Shostakovich's almost confessional late pieces there's perhaps less person to person communication in Milhaud, though there is a distinct reaching for serenity in the slow mvts and festiveness in the faster ones. These are of course more 'objective,' less dramatic moods than some expect from music.
Also, like most of his fellow 'Groupe de Six' members* Milhaud decidedly took a side step out of the Progressive Tradition that starts with Mozart's six Haydn Quartets and the Middle and Late Beethoven Quartets. Listening to Schnittke (or Bartok for that matter, or late Shos) one is firmly in that tradition: these pieces are meant to be major statements on life and the music one can make
[hello, HiFi fans! See: this is what happens when you tune into the Music Room].
Unless I'm mistaken / really stupid Milhaud doesn't do major statements. He just makes music. Obviously that's another way of making a major statement too, i.e. that there's something too confining in the Progressive Tradition, and the way artists are expected to make vatic pronouncements all the time.
Incidentally, I started the Milhaud symphony box from the other end - the beginning rather than the end - and those early symphonies are much better. The orchestra remains awfully mediocre. Lord I'm glad I don't live in Basle.
I should try to get hold of those Scelsi pieces sometime
Herman
* I'd happily stand corrected but if memory serves Poulenc, Auric, Honneger, Satie were also in the Groupe de Six.
Posted on: 05 November 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
I've heard a couple of orchestral pieces by Scelsi - very very minimal. I half remember (i.e. could be complete nonsense) a story about how his compositional style developed out of his time in a mental health institution where he got obsessed with getting different sounds out of the same note on the piano which he used to play all day. All sounds a bit dire, but the works I heard were reasonably compelling.
I'd expect his chamber music to be extremely spare. Jack any more comments on what these are like?
David
Posted on: 08 November 2002 by stephenjohn
Between Tides. Very good. Piece for Cello, Violin, and Piano written in 1993. It doesn't remind me of Debussy though. More Bartok without the rhythmic bits. Dreamily enjoyable.
Also been listeniong to Britten and Rostropovich play the Cello Sonata B wrote for R. Very very good music. Does Britten get much of a mention outside the UK? or in these topics?
Posted on: 08 November 2002 by Former member
Herm-
Glad you enjoyed the Schnittke 4th Quartet. This is great chamber music. I have listened to this piece many dozens of times and it never fails to move me; very deep, very powerful music. His music has the ability to touch me on a very deep personal level. To me, his chamber music ranks with the very top--Beethoven, Bartok, Shostakovich.
David-
Scelsi spent some years in mental institutions. Apparently, during one of his stays he experienced an "opening", or gained clarity in his musical vision. His music is like no other that I have ever heard. There is an other worldly quality to his music. He creates sounds that are simply different and yet they have a profound ability to touch us. The set I recommended is performed by the Arditti Quartet. This is a first rate ensemble with precision playing. To interpret Scelsi, that precision is needed. This is serious music and deserves serious listening.
There is nothing like this music anywhere in the repertoire that I am familiar with; Scelsi was an extreme individualist; had his own voice--and that voice was unique. Come on chaps, what do you have to lose? There is so much mediocre music out there; this is the stuff of genius, give it a try.
Regards,
Jack
Posted on: 10 November 2002 by DJH
Jack; I picked up a copy of the Scelsi quartets last weekend when I was passing through the UK, together with some Dutilleux and Carter pieces that I hadn't been able to source in HK.
I started with the fourth and fifth quartets, which seemed impossibly dense. Then I tried the third, and some sense began to emerge. In some ways, the third appears like an opened out version of the later pieces, with the linkages between events more obvious and accessible. Some of its movements, particularly the third and fifth, have a gravitas which is compelling. By contrast, the later pieces are so condensed that they appear like some intricate origami that you would find difficult to have been conceived on or from a sheet of musical paper. This is some of the strangest music I have come across and I will be making time for it over the coming months as I am sure that there is further depth and subtlety to find.
Posted on: 10 November 2002 by stephenjohn
I've been intrigued by this thread and the descriptions of music that I have never heard, so I have just ordered: Gubaidulina Garden Of Joys And Sorrows, Scelsi’s Quartets by the Arditti, and Black Angels by George Crumb. All for under £20, perhaps a bargain? I'll find out in the listening. On another note, I would be interested to know if anyone else listens to Britten or Bax and if so what they think.
Posted on: 10 November 2002 by Former member
Good choices Stephen. You may be surprised by the ending of "Garden of Joys and Sorrows" - just a spoken comment. The piece itself is interesting. Probably the only one I like by Gubaidulina unfortunately.
I don't know the Scelsi.
Crumb is one of my favourite composers. I hope the opening of Black Angels doesn't scare you hehe. It's an awesome piece though, well constructed. Many ideas in this piece, a few returning themes. It's brilliant. This is actually quartet music put together well....not just solos one after another!
Posted on: 11 November 2002 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by stephenjohn:
I would be interested to know if anyone else listens to Britten or Bax and if so what they think.
I listen to Britten occasionally, and I'm not even British. Favorite pieces are the third string quartet (la Serenissima, with the Passacaglia at the end) by either the Amadeus Quartet or the Lindsays. The second and third Cello Sonata are pretty good to, though not by Rostropovich, who is just too big, fuzzy and slavic to me, for this kind of music.
Downside of Britten is he hardly ever sounds as if the music comes totally naturally. I hate to say this, but he is a bit of a secondary talent, who came to music not as a maker but as a listener first. I mean, compare him to his close coevals Prokofiev or Shostakovich... They would seem to compose out of a completely unmediated animal urge.
Britten's songs are perhaps the most authentic pieces. The 'Winter Words' cycle, poems by Thomas Hardy, is perhaps the best he wrote outside of opera.
Herman
Posted on: 13 November 2002 by stephenjohn
thanks for that Herm. As someone living in England, I've grown up with the idea that Britten was one of the greats of the C20th. I wondered whether this was just provincialism. I enjoy some of his music immensely, but that maybe because I am English.
