Cokehead Kate

Deane

You always talk about drugs in the context of abuse and anti-social behaviour.

I believe that most people could use drugs in the same way as they do alcohol – sensibly, socially, and in moderation.

We will never get close to agreement on this so I will leave it there.

Nigel

You're right, of course, but that has been my experience. I have been witness to the most exquisite suffering though - I can never forget it - and it is impossible (for me) to see the substance itself as any less a part of the problem than all of the other elements.

Controlled recreational use of the hard drugs is rare here in NZ - especially the opiates and especially intravenous use. Also, it seems to be the less fortunate parts of the society here that experience the problems and who have the least chance of using sensibly, socially and in moderation.

A pity that you're going to leave it there just because we'll probably not agree. I am still interested in what you have to say.

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by domfjbrown:
Wasn't MDMA some kind of truth serum gone wrong?

I bloody hope not - the number of saucer-eyed weirdos who have told me how much they love me at Glastonbury and various concerts. Maybe I'm just naturally lovable, or perhaps this is very the definition of "going wrong".

Although I think it's a truism that, with the exception of tobacco, people on drugs (including excess caffeine) do tend to talk way more shite...

I have just taken a morning walk through town. 7am on Saturday morning and there are still a few drunk people walking the streets.

A couple of bimbettes dressed in black stopped me and asked me for money for a taxi.

.....whereas, with tobacco, they just smell like shite (and die younger).

G

They taste like shite too.

Deane

I leave it because I have stated my position and have no more to add really.

I know that substance abuse (legal and illegal) impacts most adversely on the most deprived sections of society. But, where illegal substances are concerned, it is the exorbitant cost of maintaining a habit that causes the associated anti-social behaviour in respect of theft, mugging and so on.

That is not, in my view, an argument to restrict access to the general population when alcohol is freely and legally available.

Nigel

How do you "know that substance abuse (legal and illegal) impacts most adversely on the most deprived sections of society."

Hyperbole runs rapant here. Is this another example?

Jim

Because I work in areas of urban deprivation and have yet to see a street full of drug taking doctors, investment bankers, consultants, management grades on their uppers mugging old ladies for their pensions.

Those who can afford it and exercise control are not the problem. If drugs were cheaper, it would be less of a problem for those less well off too. Those people who would kill themselves through over abuse are doing so already. Legalisation would enable them to do so with out resorting to crime and inconveniencing others. In my hyperbolic opinion, of course.

Surely everybody here has thought about mugging their Naim dealer...

Nigel, I think governments in most places have been seeing the effects of a widely available, cheap and legal drug for many generations - by which I mean alcohol of course. I think that this is why they are disinclined to legitimise other drugs of abuse.

Do you have legal "herbal highs" pills and so on in the UK?

Deane

Governments won't do it because they are terrified of a political backlash that would put them out of office. Cowardice and self-interest pure and simple. Even the liberal Dutch won't go that far.

Alcohol - beloved by all political parties for the tax revenue it generates. They would love to do the same for drugs - but see above.

Nigel

I must be an optimist or something, but I believe that governments (in the West) do actually possess some sense of responsibility when it comes to the exercise of power. I'm not convinced that they (politicians) are re-election machines.

The Dutch do not enforce their laws but I thought they were bound more by international agreements than local politics when it comes to decriminalisation and their failure to enact such laws.

quote:

Originally posted by rodwsmith:
I bloody hope not - the number of saucer-eyed weirdos who have told me how much they love me at Glastonbury and various concerts. Maybe I'm just naturally lovable, or perhaps this is very the definition of "going wrong".

Although I think it's a truism that, with the exception of tobacco, people on drugs (including excess caffeine) do tend to talk way more shite...

He he he - it's probably most of the former - MDMA/E seems to make people less self-conscious about saying that they like people - and if you're off yer nuts having that warm floaty buzz, you'll talk "cod shit" for hours too! E - the "hug drug" (apparently).

Caffiene is the funny one - still can't get enough of that scene in Independence Day when they're discussing the "roadrunner manouvre" and they have to wheel out another scientist to explain it - one "who's had less caffiene"

Deane F - yep, we have legal highs in the UK. Some of which (salvia) is/are far more dangerous than the real thing. Go figure...

quote:

Caffiene is the funny one - still can't get enough of that scene in Independence Day when they're discussing the "roadrunner manouvre" and they have to wheel out another scientist to explain it - one "who's had less caffiene"

I'm somewhat embarrased that I have the knowledge needed in order to correct you, but I think that roadrunner scene is actually from 'Armageddon'. I may be wrong - I can only hope.

Starbuck

You're right. (But with a handle like yours - well, how could you be wrong about space matters?)


domfjbrown

Salvia Divinorum is sold here too. Surely the only legally available drug that is hallucinogenic (even in small quantities) - but it is short lived in its effects.

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by starbuck:
I'm somewhat embarrased that I have the knowledge needed in order to correct you, but I think that roadrunner scene is actually from 'Armageddon'. I may be wrong - I can only hope.

Oh crap - you're right! D'oh!!! I own them both (Armageddon on DVD, ID4 on Crap-o-vision) - both are cheesetastic mind you, but only one has Liv Tyler