creativity and age

For my tastes, rock is a young person's game. As rockers get older, they generally tend to write less compelling music (presuming they are the ones writing). And the sight of people in their 50s and 60s on stage trying to perform rock music is rather strange. There are some exceptions - Zappa, say - but not many.

In classical, I'd say it is the opposite is the case with composers. Not only Carter got better as he aged, but so did others - LvB, for instance, or Ligeti, Dutilleux, Mahler, DSCH, Debussy, or many others. With performers it's more of a mixed bag.



--

quote:

As rockers get older, they generally tend to write less compelling music

Quite often their performances of their earlier work,are better though. They must also moderate their leaping about etc the older they get, mind you the body will probably fix that any way.

As regards creativity, perhaps they slayed their ghosts and demons early in life and "sit" back with less serious works.

Artists get stale over prolonged careers. I'm not sure creativity reduces just because of age; many painters do great work in their older years. Record companies promote youth always, but youth does not always mean originality.

As for consistently creative older musical artists, how about Leonard Cohen and Peter Gabriel.

Bruckner wrote plenty of "great" music as an old man, but then again, I don't care for his music.

...me neither it always sounded turgid to me

There's only so much juice in the orange.

I think some artists can sustain their creativity if they pace themselves. Kate Bush knocks out an album every decade or so, and (imo) they're up to scratch.

I wonder if Dylan, slowed down, toured less and put out something every five years we might see an improvement. But then again, I can't see him hitting the heights of Blonde on Blonde.

John Martyn is a good example of somebody who was restlessly creative and always sounded interesting. Look what happened to him though.

I saw Seasick Steve last night, and he is in his late 60's and at the peak of his career, but maybe we missed out on a youthful Steve because Jools Holland's show was not around forty years ago.

I don't think age is such a factor regarding live performance, I have seen Miles Davis, Van Der Graaf Generator and Bowie all over 50, or 60, they have played with more energy than almost any young bands I have seen. I saw Nine Inch Nails two days after VDGG in 2005, and found them tame in comparison.

The question you are asking is about creativity, and probably more about writing.

I might offer King Crimson 'The Power to Believe' as a creative later career album. To be honest I don't particularly like Belew's ballads/songs, but the instrumental tracks are as good as any Crimson played.

I think 'Drawn from Life' by Brian Eno is his best ambient album, for me his best album all together, but Roxy Music fans would disagree. I also think 'Tour de France Soundtracks' by Kraftwerk is one of their best albums, admittedly 20 years after their previous studio album, not ground breaking, but powerful and distinctly their sound, and perhaps more interesting rhymically, as technology and the influence of techno have improved their drum programming.

Perhaps in electronic music where advancements in technology have allow artists to continue to develop there are still those who push creativity later in their careers. With electric and acoustic music it is probably the case that artists stagnate more easily as their is little change to their instruments to push them forwards.

I do remember an interesting quote from Phil Collins about Genesis 'You either gradually become a caricature of yourself, or you move in a new direction'. Just a pity that direction was crass pop music for Genesis.

I can think of a number of performers that didn't age gracefully as artists, especially in rock music, but also in jazz and classical.

The rolling Stones, Earth, Wind and Fire and Tower of Power are all less than they were in younger days. Miles Davis put in some pitiful performances in his last years. Marizio Pollini put in a Bach album that falls short.
There are many such examples.

For my part, I say give the young guys some breathing room, and enjoy retirement.

Miles Davis final performance in London in 1991 was quite spectacular, as was his get together with old friends in Paris July 1991.

Pet shop boys are producing some of their best work in their mid 50's.

Sister xx

Daryl Hall & Todd Rundgren are still cutting it after approx 40 years in the business.

Here they are performing recently in Live from Daryl's House, my favourite Internet show. If you check through the guest's appearing with Daryl's band, enjoyment and respect from everyone is the common thread.

"If your good enough, your old enough"

As a friend of mine who is a bass player says, "The older I get the better I was..."

DenisA - thanks for pointing me/us to the Live From Daryl's House site - that stuff positively kicks some serious arse. Great!

...but has anyone come up with something truly original in later years?

Stephen,

Your original premise was, "has creativity continued as an artist has matured"? I think you have moved the goalposts by asking if they have created "something truly original". Surely when an artist creates their initial output, they are finding their voice. We can recognise signature features though regarding their voice/instrumentation/arrangements etc. There are very few chameleons who have had the capacity to change direction (1960's onwards in popular music). Some include, Joni Mitchell; Neil Young; Frank Zappa; David Bowie; Scott Walker ( a most terrifying example ). Do the artists I have mentioned answer your "creating something truly original" question? If not, please expand thanks.

ATB Denis

Nick Cave is as prolific as ever but what he does now is far removed from Birthday Party and early Bad Seeds. Artistically, he has matured as few seem able.

quote:

Originally posted by DrMark:
DenisA - thanks for pointing me/us to the Live From Daryl's House site - that stuff positively kicks some serious arse. Great!

Off Topic

DrMark,

Glad you like LFDH and subscribing is so easy

If you want to hear Daryl really singing outside his comfort zone, try and get a copy of this. Here is a Rolling Stone review.

Good call Derry, re Nick Cave he certainly has maintained if not exceeded with each work.

David Byrne

This is a subject on which I've mused for some time.

If you look at early Bowie and B-52's, the sheer simplicity of their music is notable, IMO. Mr. Bowie in particular complicates his music over time, and if you compare eg. Heathen with Ziggy, I think something is lost.

While I would say his older (note: not oldest) stuff is generally better, Todd Rundgren's creativity over a 40 year career has stood the test of time, IMHO. He was definitely on the top of his game for over 20 years.

quote:

Originally posted by DrMark:
Todd Rundgren's creativity over a 40 year career has stood the test of time, IMHO. He was definitely on the top of his game for over 20 years.

Mark

I must agree.

If you counted the number outstanding songs recorded by artists such as McCartney, Lennon, Dylan, Springsteen, Young, Sting, Plant, Page etc.
Nobody would come close to the number of outstanding songs recorded by Todd Rundgdren

quote:

Bruckner wrote plenty of "great" music as an old man, but then again, I don't care for his music.

quote:

Originally posted by stephenjohn:
...me neither it always sounded turgid to me

Maybe you listened to the wrong recordings .

Definitely the second movement of his last symphony ( 9th ) is far from being turgid.

Best wishes

Manfred

I've liked Paul Simon as an ever expanding quality output and then he hit it big again with Graceland. He's always worked well with backup groups, but that one was not his music tho he crafted it into and incredible sound and the lyrics were inspired.

Either older people slide into routine (loose it) or they mature in ways they didn't have as younger men/women. You can't really keep up all the shenanigans and energy as youth. I love the songs Dylan is doing now, yeah it's not the Blonde on Blonde but dayam his comments on life are wonderful to this aging man.

I saw the Stones in 80 or so at a stadium in LA, It was nice but to me not cutting edge. The news had 3 versions of Satisfaction, it was very interesting to compare those as they were obviously tired of it land that was decades ago. I remember some years ago they came out with some of the best videos of new songs that others just couldn't come close to. Mick as a giant stomping thru NY and another as a garage band and all the warping of teh camera like a weird drug trip. Don't remember the songs but I do the videos.

well, for classical look to the developing mastery of Puccini and Verdi. Just magnificent stuff. I just saw Met HD of Turandot and a few days ago Verdi's Requiem, amazing stuff. Composers today just don't thrill you like that.