Is control on immigration racist?

I don't think it's racist at all at all personally, I do find it strange though how certain one off posters from either Germany, Italy, Holland, Istael, etc, just appear, then suddenly dissapear again to give the impression this forum is itself not intrisicly racist, innit ?

Fritz Von Before you accuse me take a look at yourself

So logically, to remain non-racist, we can have no controls on immigration?

I don't see a problem, if you're an illegal immigrant you should get deported. If you're a refugee you should get supported. If you're not sure then you're not a refugee.

Paul

And if you land in Australia you can't fly kites in the outback cos it annoys the cops

Having controls on immigration is surely just common sense?

Chaps

If you stop foreigners coming in, you are rascist.

My own view is that we are all global citizens and we should be actively aiming to bring about unrestricted travel throughout the world.

I should be able to live anywhere in the world and that is the best way of breaking down barriers. By converse, anyone should be allowed in here.

Regards

Mick

Mick me old Handsome, Do you speak Welsh ?

It's not the immigration itself that causes the problem. It is the lack of incentive for the immigrant to work from Day 2 or 3. (or even years 2 or 3 or 4 or 5!)

Taking away the social security system for immigrants and ensuring that this information is publicised worldwide would virtually stop immigration to the EU overnight.

I cannot think of any other reason for anybody to want to come to freezing Scandinavia (from deepest desert Africa for example) except for the social security payments being the highest in the world and the conditions for settlement the most lax and openly welcoming. Nice new flats, central heating, finest free health care, etc. While the Danes languished on endless waiting lists.

There are still many second-generation immigrants who have never worked. It took years before Danish language teaching became compulsory. This included first and second wives of muslims living on social security. There was still no compulsion for any of them to work. Only a swing to the right in the last election finally forced a change. An election poster showed the fomer prime minister in bed with a head-scarved muslim girl. I wonder if the British conservatives would have the nerve to try that with Bliar.

Now the immigrants kids throw rocks at firemen and policemen when called to their council flat ghettos and drive round at insanely high speed in the cities in souped-up cars. This inevitably leads to a right wing backlash with racist attacks becoming ever more common. Many second-generation immigrants leave school without any qualifications or basic literacy skills in Danish.

I'm quoting the Danish papers and endless examples on the Danish TV news.

Nime

Sorry but you're wrong people rezturn and return agian against immessuarable odds, US/Mexico border is a great example in kind.

Fritz Von Let's all move to Swindon

To add to that I suppose Passports are essentially racist in themselves, and looking through recent history the only places where they were cumpulsory (USSR) for instance, hardly allowed for their Citizens to go looking for work as a cleaner down at Our Mick's lodge now did It, kept the buggers in though !!! Always an argument here in Berlin previously who's caging who in here ?

Mr F,
does this not make a passport issued in the EU a bit like the "internal travel documents" of old so beloved by the USSR and China?

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
There is a problem here. Why is Howard allowed to get away with his back-door rascism?

There is no problem. It is not racism.

Presumably, if they built a hostel for asylum seekers next door, you would be happy - overjoyed even.

quote:

Originally posted by Roy T:
Mr F,
does this not make a passport issued in the EU a bit like the "internal travel documents" of old so beloved by the USSR and China?

Could be ? I recall it be very difficult for a farm worker for instance in outer regions of Russia, or similarly in the GDR to a weekend holiday pass to either Moscow or Berlin ! some may consider this pedantic though I fear ? although EU passports will take one anywhere in the world (at a price) unlike those afore-mentioned thingys (depending on What & Who you are naturally) innit

No it isn't! It's purely common sense.

Best regards,
Mole Man

Most ex commonwealth countries and the US have pretty strict immigration controls as I know to my cost - so what is wrong for the UK to have a strict system that is correctly enforced with a pick list of the types of people tha we wish to welcome to the country so that the immigrant and the UK both benefit.

Also, as in the US were they have a US first culture, the UK should bring in a UK or British first attitude - based on "if you want to come here then you want to be British" and all that that entails.

Me, I do not want to be British, but I cannot find anywhere that I want to go that would let me in

Immigration control is not remotely racist. Nor is our current asylum policy either.

There is, however, in the discussion of this subject lots of racism either explicit or implicit.

Matthew

As those of you who've tried to obtain an American Green Card (Work Permit) in the past through the 'normal channels', upon recieving the application forms (as I have also done) it mentions just about every land on this earth, and only two from those need not apply (they are right at the top of the list) and are namely the UK & Canada, innit.

Fritz Von MIck'll be allright though he's an old hand

_______________________________________________________________
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
There is no problem. It is not racism.
_______________________________________________________________
Howard is deliberately and cynically whipping up vitriol against immigrants. Whether you accept immigration controls as racist or not, when opportunist populists like Howard use language of the gutter press, it contributes to creating a climate of unease and tension. A mainstream politician like Howard (or Jack Straw for that matter) creating an image of immigrants as unwanted and damaging to the social fabric of the UK, drags the argument of the far right to the centre of politics and legitimises such arguments as those employed by the BNP.
Howard may be many things but he is not stupid or uneducated. Like Enoch Powell before him, he is aware that, until very recently, net emigration from the UK exceeded immigration. He is aware that talk of immigration is directed at Black, Asian and East European immigrants and not the many immigrants from Canada, Australia or New Zealand (i.e. white, Jack Straw, as home secretary, issued an open invitation for 20,000 white Zimbabwean farmers to come to the UK to escape Mugabe, but New Labour denies entry to those fleeing conflict in other parts of the globe). Howard is also aware of the changing demographics in the UK. An increasingly ageing population will mean an acute need of persons to fill huge gaps in the labour market which can be filled by immigrants, many of whom are educated, professional people. One need only look at the NHS to witness the contribution of immigrant labour.
He is, however, content to play the race card and manipulate people's fears and uncertainties to achieve as many grubby votes as he can. He is an unprincipled scoundrel who has the temerity to cite his family's persecution at the hands of the Nazis to justify his own stinking racism. Thankfully, all the indications are he will be dumped on his arse at the election. He can then froth away with his zenophobic nonsense from the backbenches, being listened to by nobody save the right-wing of his own party.

quote:

Originally posted by matthewr:
Immigration control is not remotely racist.

Exactly.
My point is that Howard is putting forward an argument for immigration control on the basis that it is common sense, which people are swallowing (which I do not personally subscribe to - but that is irrelevant), but has actually a hidden agenda to continue his racist direction that he began as Home Secretary. We know what the guys views are and his implementation of any policy in this direction is what people should be examining carefully. That's what I mean by "back-door" racism.

Rasher - how can anyone think that controlling immigration is not common sense? Please explain.

If there was an open-door policy then how could planning for social services, the NHS, housing etc. be done?

Steve

Keeping people out of this country because they are not British is plainly racist.

Let me quote an academic situation.

I am 56 yrs of age and British. Let us suppose that I left this country at the age of one year because my parents emigrated. I lived in, say, Nigeria and grew up and worked there. Therefore although I am British, I have not contributed anything to our economy.

At the age of 56, I decide to return to retire here. I would have no problem getting in because of my background. However a Nigerian would have difficulty. That is racism.

The typical hypocritical attitude is, we built up this country and we are going to keep it for ourselves and everyone else can be kept out.

We are all citizens of planet earth and if anyone is prevented from living anywhere on this planet because of their race, then it is nothing but small minded racism.

Because the Americans adopt a racist line on immigration, does not mean that we should do the same. Human values are too high for that type of spiteful attitude.



Regards

Mick

Mick -- You appear to be confusing Natioinality with Race. You are talking twaddle.

Immigration policy (or "control") simply defines under what circumstances someone can or cannot come here.

Asylum policy is a different issue.

The racism comes from the misunderstanding and conflation of the above and the attitude of some people and some newspapers.

Labours problems with immigration appear to be a mixture of rampant paranoia about not seeming soft on the policy issues (which often makes them sound like racists or at least willing to pander to the racists) and a quite staggering level of incompetance. The policy confusion and hesitancy is almost certianly the cause of their incompetnace.

Matthew

PS Of course those of you who beleive in the free market should support mobility of labour and the right of, say, Albanians to come here and work.

Matthew

If you wish to stop people coming into this country because they were born abroad, you are a racist pure and simple.

This is a moral question which transcends nationalism. Everyone should be allowed to go where they want to improve themselves without any restrictions what so ever.

Regards

Mick

*gives up in face of rank stupidity*

quote:

Originally posted by matthewr:
PS Of course those of you who beleive in the free market should support mobility of labour and the right of, say, Albanians to come here and work.

Albanians already do; I know cos my cousin married one! And I went to the wedding too and it was a thoroughly good evening all round , except for the fact that I was allocated a seat on the same table as my parents which was embarrassing to say the least!

Cheers,

Jon

Matthew

You are a little Englander.

Mick

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Keeping people out of this country because they are not British is plainly racist.

Nonsense. Anyone who's not a thread and not likely to become an illegal immigrant should be allowed to visit this country for a reasonable period.

There needs to be controls in place for people who wish to move here to live/work but that has nothing to do with racism.