Advice please re: NAS storage ~ Streaming
Posted by: Musicmad on 31 October 2009
I'm looking for comments - positive or negative - re: the Western Digital 4TB ShareSpace NAS drive, which I'm considering purchasing to be used primarily for streaming music from my computer room (spare bedroom) to my hi-fi setup in the living room.
Present set-up:
CD5x + FC2X
SuperNait
Pro-Ac Tri-Tower (using NACA5 4m lengths) speakers
The SN is connected to a Pioneer AV receiver for AV 5.1 purposes using the Unity Gain function (NB: creates some low level feedback which I have yet to resolve!)
and, as a recent addition:
Logitech Squeezebox Duo (Controller and Receiver) with the Receiver connected to SN using Optical.
I use a 500GB external HDD connected (USB) to my PC to store a large proportion of my music (ripped with Windows Lossless) and this drive is now approx. 2/3 full.
I accept that the Squeezebox sound is not as good as the CD5x sound but I use it mostly when not in the living room so the loss in quality is not noticeable and, despite some problems with the wi-fi connection, I find I'm enjoying hearing lots of music I may not normally select by setting the Squeezebox on random play.
So I'm thinking of upgrading my music storage from the HDD to the afore-mentioned WD ShareSpace, ethernet connection to the ADSL router. I'm used to hearing HDD noise when working at the PC but advertising literature/reviews indicate that the WD ShareSpace is very quiet (advantage).
Anyone think my plan is a good - or silly (stupid) - idea?
I like to think that one day I shall upgrade my CD5x to an HDX and would want the WD ShareSpace to act as the external source supplementing the HDX internal drive.
I presently have approx. 1,500 CDs (ever expanding), 80% of which are ripped to the HDD.
Thanks for any advice.
Present set-up:
CD5x + FC2X
SuperNait
Pro-Ac Tri-Tower (using NACA5 4m lengths) speakers
The SN is connected to a Pioneer AV receiver for AV 5.1 purposes using the Unity Gain function (NB: creates some low level feedback which I have yet to resolve!)
and, as a recent addition:
Logitech Squeezebox Duo (Controller and Receiver) with the Receiver connected to SN using Optical.
I use a 500GB external HDD connected (USB) to my PC to store a large proportion of my music (ripped with Windows Lossless) and this drive is now approx. 2/3 full.
I accept that the Squeezebox sound is not as good as the CD5x sound but I use it mostly when not in the living room so the loss in quality is not noticeable and, despite some problems with the wi-fi connection, I find I'm enjoying hearing lots of music I may not normally select by setting the Squeezebox on random play.
So I'm thinking of upgrading my music storage from the HDD to the afore-mentioned WD ShareSpace, ethernet connection to the ADSL router. I'm used to hearing HDD noise when working at the PC but advertising literature/reviews indicate that the WD ShareSpace is very quiet (advantage).
Anyone think my plan is a good - or silly (stupid) - idea?
I like to think that one day I shall upgrade my CD5x to an HDX and would want the WD ShareSpace to act as the external source supplementing the HDX internal drive.
I presently have approx. 1,500 CDs (ever expanding), 80% of which are ripped to the HDD.
Thanks for any advice.
Posted on: 31 October 2009 by Toksik
quote:I accept that the Squeezebox sound is not as good as the CD5x sound
Musicmad,try FLAC format (Lossless) with your audio files and hear the difference.
i have the Duet /Transporter/ SqueezeBox Radio here and i suffer no loss in audio quality when listening to my setup.
i used to have a Linn Ikemi before i went down the digital path and honestly i don't miss the cd spinner one iota .....well mabye the Klyde Built drawer!.
dennis
Posted on: 31 October 2009 by gary1 (US)
Naim are supposedly coming out with some recommendations regarding NAS devices with the HDX software update.
I'd wait and see what they say.
I'd wait and see what they say.
Posted on: 31 October 2009 by Jack
quote:Western Digital 4TB ShareSpace NAS
Certainly nothing wrong with your plan IMO.
No specific experience of the Western Digital NAS although it seems to have mixed reviews based on a quick search.
I'm using a QNAP and would highly recommend it. Thecus is also very good. A lot of people run Squeezecentre from the QNAP/Thecus NAS device hence saving the need to have your PC switched on to stream music.
You may be able to run SC on the WD but I suspect support will not be as good as QNAP/Thecus.
As mentioned I would also be looking to rip in FLAC.
Jack
Posted on: 31 October 2009 by aht
Maybe this is not relevant to your situation, but in my experience Western Digital has terrible technical support. The recent Mac OS upgrade, Snow Leopard, has rendered my WD external drive unusable. The reply is they're "working on" a fix, expect it in another month or so.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by SC
quote:Originally posted by gary1 (US):
I'd wait and see what they say.
I think many people have been - since April....
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by garyi
As much as I love naim, I would suggest that the NAS makers are experts on NASes and therefore consumers should not be getting advice from hifi manufacturers as to what constitutes a good NAS.
They should be looking at reviews such as found on ElReg to form an opinion.
Any hifi company or otherwise claiming that a NAS 'sounds' different should be had up for blatant lying.
What we are into now is the world of computers, you can try and shoehorn the myriad crazy shit that we hifi nerds are into but for the rest of the world it simply is not going to wash.
In terms of compatibility with say an HDX. Well this point is moot really, if the HDX works as it should and a NAS works as it should then it will work.
Ideally you want a nas which can act as a UPNP server as this is handy.
Finally if you are planning on putting a NAS anywhere where you can hear the noise, you have totally misunderstood the point of them.
They should be looking at reviews such as found on ElReg to form an opinion.
Any hifi company or otherwise claiming that a NAS 'sounds' different should be had up for blatant lying.
What we are into now is the world of computers, you can try and shoehorn the myriad crazy shit that we hifi nerds are into but for the rest of the world it simply is not going to wash.
In terms of compatibility with say an HDX. Well this point is moot really, if the HDX works as it should and a NAS works as it should then it will work.
Ideally you want a nas which can act as a UPNP server as this is handy.
Finally if you are planning on putting a NAS anywhere where you can hear the noise, you have totally misunderstood the point of them.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Musicmad
quote:Originally posted by Toksik:quote:I accept that the Squeezebox sound is not as good as the CD5x sound
Musicmad,try FLAC format (Lossless) with your audio files and hear the difference.
i have the Duet /Transporter/ SqueezeBox Radio here and i suffer no loss in audio quality when listening to my setup.
i used to have a Linn Ikemi before i went down the digital path and honestly i don't miss the cd spinner one iota .....well mabye the Klyde Built drawer!.
dennis
Thank you for the suggestion. I have heard of FLAC but not checked into its use, etc. largely because of my Luddite tendencies. WMA Lossless has been largely satisfactory (I use it for ripping and library storage, not for burning) but I have now downloaded the FLAC program. I see a "FLAC Frontend" screen with lots of buttons/settings ... so it looks as if I shall have to do some research/experimenting.
One point, though, is that as I use Roxio Easy Media Creator Suite 9 for burning I shall have to see if this supports FLAC. The User Guide is silent on this matter.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Musicmad
quote:Originally posted by gary1 (US):
Naim are supposedly coming out with some recommendations regarding NAS devices with the HDX software update.
I'd wait and see what they say.
I have been waiting to see if any formal recommendations appear but I'm inclined to go with garyi's comments: I can't see the hardware industry designing an NAS primarily for the audio user. That said, if Naim were to nominate one or two models with which they are satisfied (whilst not ruling out others unless there is a factual technical issue) then I'm sure I'd take that into account.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Musicmad
quote:Originally posted by Jack:quote:Western Digital 4TB ShareSpace NAS
Certainly nothing wrong with your plan IMO.
No specific experience of the Western Digital NAS although it seems to have mixed reviews based on a quick search.
I'm using a QNAP and would highly recommend it. Thecus is also very good. A lot of people run Squeezecentre from the QNAP/Thecus NAS device hence saving the need to have your PC switched on to stream music.
You may be able to run SC on the WD but I suspect support will not be as good as QNAP/Thecus.
As mentioned I would also be looking to rip in FLAC.
Jack
One of the reasons for my original posting was to generate useful comments re: the WD brand. I, too, have read some mixed reviews (though unlike aht had garnered the impression that their technical support was good/excellent (though hoping, of course, I would not need to test this out!)
It was a review of the WD 4tb ShareSpace which first gave me the idea of going in this direction and the product's design, facilities, price, etc. do seem favourable. I have not heard of QNAP/Thecus but shall do some research. I certainly like the idea of being able to access the NAS without the PC and had wondered if the WD SS would allow me to do this (I know that the Squeezebox Receiver has to feed from the SqueezeCenter (program) so I suppose it depends on whether this program can reside and be accessed directly from the NAS).
You'll understand that I'm not particularly computer-minded and often find a four-stage way of doing something which is possible at the touch of a button if only I knew which button!
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Jack
quote:Western Digital NAS
If you are planning to stick with SC for some time then I would definitely recommend finding a NAS where there is a strong community of development and support for the software on that particular brand of NAS. Most NAS devices appear to run Linux underneath the surface so its quite probable that you would be able to run SC on WD but you may be on your own trying to configure it unless a community already exist etc.....I wouldn't recommend it.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by gary1 (US)
If you are using your NAS for music only as I do, then I'd be inclined to see what the "Hi-Fi" company says.
I've looked at the Linn Forum and there is certainly varied opinion about how different NAS devices and HDD sound when played back through a DS device. Whether true or not I can't say, but non professional consumers are "hearing" a difference.
Same issue with bit perfect. It's bit perfect, but they sound different.
I've looked at the Linn Forum and there is certainly varied opinion about how different NAS devices and HDD sound when played back through a DS device. Whether true or not I can't say, but non professional consumers are "hearing" a difference.
Same issue with bit perfect. It's bit perfect, but they sound different.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Cjones
I have been tackling this issue for a couple months. My biggest issue is that no two NAS are created equal. There are those that have commercial/enterprise application and those that have broader consumer appeal (read easier and cheaper). I will say that my research suggests that you should avoid the consumer versions, if possible. Commercial variants are scalable, allow hot swapping disks, have all sorts of diagnostics, but most important, a HUGE online support base. A group of people that make a career out of these things.
Of course, this isn't without extra cost. Enterprise NAS often require an investment into dedicated server software such as Windows Server 2003/2008. Yes, more than most are looking for, but the support that exists for these platforms is amazing.
The issues I see with consumer NAS is that the software lacks development and as technology progresses, the drivers and software isn't able to keep up. If anyone checks reads PSaudio.com, the founder has decided to take matters into his on hands, developing something more specific, for the PS Audio kit. While I am not suggest Naim will do such a thing, but its interesting that its come to this.
Of course, this isn't without extra cost. Enterprise NAS often require an investment into dedicated server software such as Windows Server 2003/2008. Yes, more than most are looking for, but the support that exists for these platforms is amazing.
The issues I see with consumer NAS is that the software lacks development and as technology progresses, the drivers and software isn't able to keep up. If anyone checks reads PSaudio.com, the founder has decided to take matters into his on hands, developing something more specific, for the PS Audio kit. While I am not suggest Naim will do such a thing, but its interesting that its come to this.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Guido Fawkes
Hardly anybody in my industry uses this antiquated technology these days - it tends to be Storage Area Networks - what will those marketing guys think of next - how about removable optical storage. IT is one of the most boring industries around - it used to be OK, but the last 20 years or so it has gone at such snails pace - I think the PS-Audio initiative is a good one.quote:Enterprise NAS
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Eloise
Depending on your level of computer expertise, an alternative to an "enterprise" level NAS is a PC used as a server running either Linux or Windows with generic file sharing and bespoke server software such as the Squeezecenter and/or Twonky for UPnP.
Can be quite cost effective - buy a cheep Dell and add a few HDDs.
Eloise
Can be quite cost effective - buy a cheep Dell and add a few HDDs.
Eloise
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Peter Dinh
quote:Originally posted by Eloise:
Depending on your level of computer expertise, an alternative to an "enterprise" level NAS is a PC used as a server running either Linux or Windows with generic file sharing and bespoke server software such as the Squeezecenter and/or Twonky for UPnP.
Can be quite cost effective - buy a cheep Dell and add a few HDDs.
Eloise
This is an excellent advice and this is exactly what I am doing for network streaming, but I use an expensive, high performance high end server for that purpose plus other cirtical mission work-related tasks. I have been wondering why all the wise men/women want to go to the NAS storage solution, approx. 2 years ago I played around with a NAS but the performance was so frustratingly slooooowwww so I abandoned the idea completely.
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by james n
Take a look at the Linn site - they have a number of recommended NAS drives for their DS players.
James
James
Posted on: 01 November 2009 by Klout10
quote:Originally posted by Toksik:
i used to have a Linn Ikemi before i went down the digital path and honestly i don't miss the cd spinner one iota .....well mabye the Klyde Built drawer!
Well, that was probably the most wonderful CD tray I'll ever came across!
Regards,
Michel
Posted on: 02 November 2009 by aht
quote:Originally posted by Musicmad:
(though unlike aht had garnered the impression that their technical support was good/excellent
Well, I certainly can't call "excellent" a situation in which my backup drive, made by Western Digital, doesn't work anymore, and while admitting it's their fault, they say they'll get around to issuing a fix when they feel like it, some time in the distant future. Maxtor, for example, works fine with Snow Leopard, as do most other brands, evidently.
Posted on: 02 November 2009 by gary1 (US)
I'm using a D-link 323 DNS with 2 Tb total storage. The same thing now can be gotten for under $400 with 3-4 TB.
I use this only to store music and the playback has been very good via the HDX.
The D-link and Ready NAS duo are two recs on the Linn Forum. Naim has already used the ready NAS at their shows.
Even the HDDs are reported to have a difference in the music.
I use this only to store music and the playback has been very good via the HDX.
The D-link and Ready NAS duo are two recs on the Linn Forum. Naim has already used the ready NAS at their shows.
Even the HDDs are reported to have a difference in the music.
Posted on: 02 November 2009 by David Dever
quote:Originally posted by Cjones:
I have been tackling this issue for a couple months. My biggest issue is that no two NAS are created equal. There are those that have commercial/enterprise application and those that have broader consumer appeal (read easier and cheaper). I will say that my research suggests that you should avoid the consumer versions, if possible. Commercial variants are scalable, allow hot swapping disks, have all sorts of diagnostics, but most important, a HUGE online support base. A group of people that make a career out of these things.
Of course, this isn't without extra cost. Enterprise NAS often require an investment into dedicated server software such as Windows Server 2003/2008. Yes, more than most are looking for, but the support that exists for these platforms is amazing.
The issues I see with consumer NAS is that the software lacks development and as technology progresses, the drivers and software isn't able to keep up. If anyone checks reads PSaudio.com, the founder has decided to take matters into his on hands, developing something more specific, for the PS Audio kit. While I am not suggest Naim will do such a thing, but its interesting that its come to this.
IMHO this is neither necessary nor advisable from a cost perspective–Naim has available a NAS simulation utility which can be used to assess the suitability of particular drives based on the number of rooms, sample rate/bit depth, etc.
The NETGEAR ReadyNAS drives work quite well, and the NETGEAR Pro drives are sufficient for most applications that require more elaborate storage management.
Of course, there are other options, but it is important to keep in mind that streaming video (I used to work with 1080p uncompressed animations requiring gigabits of continuous bandwidth) is a much bigger performance hog than audio streaming (relatively benign by comparison), and, that a well-engineered solution should never be more expensive than the specification requires....
Posted on: 03 November 2009 by Musicmad
With grateful thanks to all contributors ... I hadn't realised there were so many issues involved and, if I'm honest, the last thing I need is another computer issue. So, after some more thought I've decided - for the present - to keep to my present set up except for:
- I've purchased a new HDD (1 tb size - approx 20% of the cost of the NAS) which I will use dedicated to my music (unlike the existing external HDD); and
- I will look to use FLAC in place of WMA Lossless.
Of course, next month I may have another change of heart! Thanks again.
- I've purchased a new HDD (1 tb size - approx 20% of the cost of the NAS) which I will use dedicated to my music (unlike the existing external HDD); and
- I will look to use FLAC in place of WMA Lossless.
Of course, next month I may have another change of heart! Thanks again.
Posted on: 03 November 2009 by garyi
Regardless of what ever heart change you may suffer, remember this.
If your data is only in one place. You have no data!
If your data is only in one place. You have no data!
Posted on: 03 November 2009 by u5227470736789439
Minumum of two external drives, one for back-up.
I have gone this way, and I intend to make it as one internal and two exyternal HDs all carrying the same files ...
Too much work goes into making the original transfers to HD and then fixing titles and so on to waste it by not backing up.
ATB from Geroge
I have gone this way, and I intend to make it as one internal and two exyternal HDs all carrying the same files ...
Too much work goes into making the original transfers to HD and then fixing titles and so on to waste it by not backing up.
ATB from Geroge
Posted on: 03 November 2009 by Musicmad
Cheers, both ... I am aware that I need backups. That was one of the reasons I was considering the NAS ... Raid 5 ... but, to be honest, I have 95% of the recordings on CD/CDr and I won't dispense with the existing external HDD straight away so I my new external HDD will become a backup of the existing material.
Posted on: 03 November 2009 by Peter Dinh
I personally do not like RAID, I do not think that it is a good idea and it is a waste of time & money because it does not protect you in the case of unintentional / accidental data removal or user error or data corruption due to "other" failed hardware or power loss. I just duplicate my data on another disk, simple but effective and it works.