upgrade questions

Hi Jean-Marc,

welcome to the Forum.

Is your question either / or or and / and? I mean: are you asking should I buy the 82 and the CDX, should I get one of these, or should I rather wait till there's sufficient funds for the top stuff?

Well, either way, I'd (humbly) say, upgrade the source first, i.e. sell the CD3.5 and FC and get a CDX instead. Then perhaps the pre-amp would be a good idea. Third step would be getting an XPS to go with the CDX.

But in some respects your system looks like you're not exactly vinyl adverse? So maybe step one and two would balance the system quite nicely for a long long time...

(The down side to 'reading' this Forum is that it fosters the idea there's no real life before CDSII / XPS / 52 / 135s etc; well, that's reading, not listening.)

Herman

Salut Jean-Marc,
Bien , a new french guy!!

Bienvenue tout d'abord.
Moi je commencerai peut être par acquérir un meilleur préamp; le Nac92 te limite sûrement un petit peu...
Une supercap peut également s'avérer un bon choix: une supercap d'occase peut se trouver pour 2000€; tu mets ensuite la Hicap sur le cd3.5 et tuvends la flatcap.
Comme ça, tu auras déjà la supercap pour le jour où tu passeras au Nac52, et il n'y pas une énorme différence entre cd3.5/Hicap et CDX (J'ai eu les deux, donc je peux témoigner!!)

Pour info, mon système se compose de CDX/Nac102/Supercap/Nap180.. Je cherche toujours de snecientes pour remplacer de vieilles Siare Diy..

Charles

Source Dernière?

Hi Charlezz,

am I right in thinking you're saying (somehow your text seems a little scrambled - have you checked your modem?) there's not a whole lot of difference between a CD3.5 + Hi (which J-M by the way does not have) and a buck naked CDX?

That's an interesting new twist... Most people would disagree.

Herman

I didn't understand what you told me concerning my modem....

And yes, IMO, there is not a huge difference between CD3.5/Hicap and CDX; Not as big as adding a s/H supercap to the preamp for the same price.
Some people may disagree, that is my point of view: I had a cd3.5/hicap during one year, and I have been having a CDX for 6 months...

Charles

Hi Jean-Marc,

I don't know what Charles said in his first post, but don't trust him - he likes B&W speakers!

Two years ago I upgraded from 3.5/FC to a bare CDX (without having to fork out too much money) and thought it was extremely worthwhile. For me, the CDX is where "special" starts in terms of CD players.

I also upgraded from 72 to 82 later - although a good upgrade, it wasn't in the same league.

Thomas

Tu noteras que je parlais de la comparaison CD3.5/Hicap-CDX et pas CD3.5/Flatcap-CDX;
Il ya une différence énorme entre la flatcap et la hicap;

ps: un truc à savoir lorsque tu viens sur ce forum: Les électroniques Naim sont les meilleures du monde, les cd naim sont imbattables, les enceintes Naim ne souffrent même pas la comparaison avec d'autres marques (pourtant spécialisées dans les enceintes comme Dynaudio, BW, Egglestonworks..), les cables NAIM n'ont pas leur équivalent sur terre, et le meuble Fraim transforme une chaîne moyenne ne monument de la hifi; J'ai même lu que les cables d'alim. Naim étaient également parmi les meilleurs (là , vraiment , je rigole...).
Non, je ne veux pas être négatif, c'est un super forum, et j'ai rencontré des gens très sympa, mais beaucoup de choses sont quand même à prendre avec des pincettes...


Charles

The trouble with your Modem

I was actually trying to make a joke, Charles, about this habit of yours to make the forum into a sort of public form of e-mail, by switching to the French language.

It's a beautiful language, but as you may have noticed by looking at Thomas's response, there are people on this forum who do not have sufficient French skills to understand what you're saying. To disregard this and continue the discussion in French - talking about some "tricks one needs to know" when on this Forum - is not terribly nice in my humble opinion.

It's exclusionary. When on this forum we speak English, as Jean-Marc did when he posted his first. I understand it's fun for you to see another compatriot joining the club (many non-British have this feeling, surely, but I haven't seen any Arabic or Tongalese posts yet). However I don't see why you should encourage him to switch to French, as it also limits his access to other members' contributions.

In conclusion I should add this is just my feeling: you have been here longer than I, and I have no itch to start moderating other people's posts or opinions. It's just that I know your English is actually quite excellent, so why hide it?

So that was what I was trying to say with the little thing about your modem. OK?

Herman

English dictature....
Yes french guys have to make efforts to speak
english!
But you know, it is so bizarre to speak in english with a french compatriot...
So , I'll try to make a summary:
I told Jean Marc, that when coming on Naim's forum, he had to know that Naim electronics, cd players, speakers, supports and even cables (!!!! ) are the BEST in the world.
Even brands which are only building speakers (Dynaudio, BW, Egglestonworks...) are here badly considered (even if nobody has listened to them
)
Finally, I told it was anyway a great forum where it was possible to make great meetings.

Sorry guys for speaking french... but don't ask to speak in english if we meet us one day in France

Charles

quote:

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Originally posted by herm:
Is your question either / or or and / and? I mean: are you asking should I buy the 82 _and_ the CDX, should I get one of these, or should I rather wait till there's sufficient funds for the top stuff?

Herman

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Well, sorry, I should have been more precise.

For the moment, the 92 preamp is clearly not sufficent (I have deomed a 102 at home, and it was already something else), that's why I wanted to upgrade and go upper to boot.
Now, I can buy a 82. A CDX would also be a good companion. These two are, IMO, well balanced together, and my LP12 will improve a lot with the 82.

My question was: should I buy first the 82 or the CDX? (other question: if I upgrade to a CDX with the 92, do I risk to see not a huge difference?)

The other question underlying is if I buy a 52, will it be under-used by having just a NAP180 and (later) a CDX, means: if I buy a 52, I'm bound to go the full monty (ie CDSII, 135, etc ...)?

To Charlezz:
1) The problem with demoing an upper market CD like the CDX against a CD3.5 on a "small" preamp/amp will not really show you the difference between the two.
I have once connected a Hicap to the 3.5, and run this on my NAIT 3, to much of my disapointment: spending 1500 Euros for so little difference? No, not me! Then the same thing on the NAC92/Hicap/180 is something else!
I learned my lesson: One has to be careful with demos and test material that can work with each other.
2) As far as I understood, you may need to purchase proper speakers?

Jean-Marc

Having just finished this upgrade, I can concur that the difference is non-trivial in whichever language you care to use! There is much more of the things that make the Naim sound. I cannot comment on the comparative effectives of a supercap just that the move to bare naked CDX is anything but trivial

A bientot, David

Hi Jean-Marc,

thanks for the explanation. If you mean "I can get a 82", in the sense there's a very attractive offer right now, I'd do it.

Upgrading the pre-amp first would have a benefit for your vinyl source too.

Otherwise (if there are no bargain opportunities) I'd still say go source first, i.e. do CDX first and then 82 (or 102, for that matter).

David, indeed it's an idée merveilleuse to include the odd French frases in a post, just for balance!

Herman

quote:

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Une supercap peut également s'avérer un bon choix: une supercap d'occase peut se trouver pour 2000€; tu mets ensuite la Hicap sur le cd3.5 et tuvends la flatcap.

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I'm sorry, but that's one of the most crazy advices I have read on this forum, if I understood correctly. Put a Supercap on a NAC 92! Power supplies are important, but not more important than a much better preamp.
A CDX would be a good start, but since you have the LP12 as well, I would start with a NAC 82, thus both your sources will benefit. You'll be surprised how much more information and bass(!) will pass through to your loudspeakers. Next step would be a CDX instead of the CD 3.5 + Flatcap and you have a great balanced system.

Ciao!

Willem

Thanks to you all!
I think I will first get me a 82, and a CDX after.

Merci beaucoup for all these good advices
Jean-Marc

Sans problème, J-M.

And please keep posting.

Herman

PS: much later I see in your profile you're un homme de vinyle. In that case the NAC 82 certainly should go first!

[This message was edited by herm on SUNDAY 02 June 2002 at 23:31.]

A CDX is a huge step forward over a 3.5/Hi. Music, drive, etc etc - more like a decent source, less like a CD Player.

The 82 is a fine preamp.

If you were buying new both items, I would recommend the CDX first. If its down to opportunity on a used deal, the 82 will certainly provide a step forward in your system (particularly where LP12 is concerned.

I agree that the 92 will serve as a bottleneck were you to dem the differences through it between 3.5/Hi and CDX. You will still hear the musical differences though.

Welcome!

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

If you use the LP12 lots then the 82 might offer the best upgrade as it will improve the LP12 and 3.5/hi-cap. The 82 is the way I'd go, then the CD source.

Thanks very much for all the good advices

I bought a S/H 82 (should receive it within 2 weeks methinks).
Next will be a CDX.
Next next, will be Power supplies, when bank account refilled

Cheers
JM

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard from Rutland:
P.S. I have just started a home demo of a 52 and CDSII.
Richard from Rutland

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What are your first impressions?
JM

Jean-Marc,
what is your e-mail -address? I have tried several times, but the messages keep bouncing back.
Uwe

quote:

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Originally posted by james mcp:
My advice would be to save up so that intermediate equipment can be leapfrogged, e.g. go straight to CDS2 from 3.5.

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Do you really think the CDS 2 will be used at its full blow in a 82/HiCap/180 system?

I feel I better first have P/S's and a better Power Amp first before the CDS2.
I may exchange a S/H CDX with my 3.5 for not much more money, though have a really better CD player and some money left for the P/S.
But I understand that going to "best" the first time is somewhat saving money, as you don't have to resell, etc...

JM

Hi Jean-Marc,

congratulations with the NAC 82 purchase. I don't think it would be such a bad idea to aim for the CDX next.

James may be recommending you to go the CDSII straight away, as it's always very convenient to spend Other People's Money.

There are two advantages to the CDX route. First you may find you really like the CDX. Second, there's no CDSII without an XPS, remember? Whereas you can get a CDX, later add an XPS if you feel like it (though there are plenty folks on the Forum who have a buck naked CDX and don't feel it's an experience one should "miss out on" at all costs), and if you're still plagued by the itch you can exchange the CDX for a CDSII (in exchange for a lot of money).

Herman

Herm is right on the advantages of getting a CDX. Economically, however, it will cost you less - a lot less if you buy new equipment - if you leapfrog intermediate steps.

That is, you will almost definitely spend less money if you sell the 3.5 and buy a CDS2/XPS then if you get to the CDS2 in steps (CDX > CDX/XPS > CDS/XPS). Actually, better than the CDX route might be to get a CDS1 and convert to the CDS2 if the transport gives out.

Regards.

Phil

Only just found this thread. I think you made the right choice J-M. Even if it had been a choice of new items, I would have recommended the 82. the result is a more balanced system that allows you to gain the benefits of any future upgrades much more than the CDX would have done.

I believe your next upgrade should be to an ARO. If you use vinyl more than CD, as you imply in your profile, then the Ittok is the weak link in the system. The difference an ARO makes is amazing.

After that, it depends on the proportion of listening between CD and vinyl. If you listen to quite a bit of CD, then you want a CDX, otherwise you want a 250 or 135s (those ls3/5a's like their juice).

After that it's an Armageddon, then a supercap, then either an XPS or a new cartridge (e.g. Dynavector Te Kaitora or Koetsu Red Signature) - again depending on proportion, then a CDS2 head unit, then new speakers or a NAP500...

At some stage along the way, you may wish to choose a separate phono stage such as a Prefix or Tom Evans Groove.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

quote:

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ps: un truc à savoir lorsque tu viens sur ce forum: Les électroniques Naim sont les meilleures du monde, les cd naim sont imbattables, les enceintes Naim ne souffrent même pas la comparaison avec d'autres marques (pourtant spécialisées dans les enceintes comme Dynaudio, BW, Egglestonworks..), les cables NAIM n'ont pas leur équivalent sur terre, et le meuble Fraim transforme une chaîne moyenne ne monument de la hifi; J'ai même lu que les cables d'alim. Naim étaient également parmi les meilleurs (là , vraiment , je rigole...).
Non, je ne veux pas être négatif, c'est un super forum, et j'ai rencontré des gens très sympa, mais beaucoup de choses sont quand même à prendre avec des pincettes...


Charles

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One thing you need to know when you come onto this forum: Naim electronics are the best in the world, Naim CD players are unbeatable, Naim speakers don't even bear comparison with other brands (even those who specialise in speakers like Dynaudio, BW, Egglestonworks..), Naim cables don't have any equivalent on earth, and the Fraim stand transforms an average system into a hi-fi monument; I have read that the Naim power cables were equally amongst the very best (there, really, I'm just kidding...).

No, I don't wish to be negative, it's a great forum, and I've met some really nice folks, but all the same, a lot of things are to be taken with a pinch of...


Now, that was what you really said, now wasn't it Charles?

Regards,

Steve.

L'appetit vient en traduisant...

quote:

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Originally posted by Steven Toy:
[QUOTE]
J'ai même lu que les cables d'alim. Naim étaient également parmi les meilleurs (là , vraiment , je rigole...).
Charles

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I have read that the Naim power cables were equally amongst the very best (there, really, I'm just kidding...).

[/QUOTE]

I don't know if Charles will respond. I let him do if he wants.

Your French is excellent, Steve, bravo.
Just a precision, on the phrase concerning Naim power cables, correct translation is, I think, something like:
"(there, really, I'm laughing out loud)"

Cheers
Jean-Marc