plumbers help?

Water hammer is quite a common problem; it’s caused by the ball float bouncing on the water ripples caused when the cistern fills with incoming water from the cold main supply.

Now to cure this you'll need to gain access to the ball valve inside the toilet cistern, so you can fit a new ball valve. Or, it might be worth checking the cold water storage tanks in the loft first before ripping bathroom boxing-in-off, and perhaps, change those ball valves. As without seeing the job so to speak it’s hard to diagnose exactly where the noise is coming from, as these noises generally transmit throughout the whole house plumbing system.

It’s easily repaired and quite cheap if done DIY.


http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=100996&ts=78935&id=52836

Beano the professional would fit Torbeck Valves as these are quite reliable and quiet valves in operation, and cost circa £5.00 ish.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=14716&ts=31255

Beano hopes this helps, and don't forget to turn the water off at the cold main first(usually under the sink) before carrying out this repair, otherwise you'll flood the joint and have the enemy on your case and that'd never be a good move.

thanks very much beano. the cistern is accessible so i'll have a look when I flush to see if anything is obvious. Any info with regards to air in the hot water system? Sorry to be cheeky.

It'll probably be just the washer inside the ball valve that’s worn, but, I'd always, always, change the valve because they're cheap enough and it's false economy to just service the valve with a new washer and diaphragm.

-----------------------

Air in the C/Htg system could simply be not enough water in the expansion tank in the loft, that’s the smaller one of the two if you’re going to venture into the loft to have look. Just top the tank up by pressing down the float valve as it could be stuck in the closed position, and then bleed your radiators with the system witched off! As venting the system while it’s running can introduce more air via suction.

If you've been fiddling with the pump speed settings, try turning it down to the lowest speed and see what happens, it might improve things?

I've deliberately kept this simple; as many factors can cause a system to make air or nitrogen, these would need to be looked at in person by a qualified engineer too give a satisfactory diagnosis.

Beano

Sorry for the confusion Beano, its air in the taps, not the C/H. They cough and splutter. Hence, its blown the shower seals.

Ok then, it sounds like the domestic hot supply circuit is air-locked. Have you tried opening all the hot taps fully and letting them run at the same time, if not, try it and see what happens?
It could be that the supply tank in the loft is not meeting the demand for water at the hot tap, and is letting air into the system because it’s running out of stored water. This could be a dirty or sticking worn out ball valve not passing enough water to recover the demand fast enough. Local workmen who’ve been working on the water supply in the road might have disturbed debris and sediment which has found its way into your pipes, partially blocking the small orifices in the valves; this can, and could be causing the water hammer that you’re experiencing.

Beano

so will this be a ball valve between the copper tank and taps or between the supply tank and copper tank? Are these ball valves the type that can be opened and shut via a wheel or screw? Is it worth just exercising them a few times to see if anything improves. I have a young daughter who is at the age where she can reach the taps and although she cant reach the water flow, the water pressure and spluttering causes it to splash over the side of sink/bath.I know I must be costing you a fortune Beano if you are a plumber by trade.

Beano,

Just wanted to say brill posting - excellent advice.

andy

Right Jason, the ball valve I’m referring too is the one that lives inside the toilet cistern that’s clearly visible when taking the cistern lid off and wears a red or orange ball float, the same goes for the plastic storage tanks in the loft.

The valves you’ve mentioned are what I’d call in-line isolation valves, and these are used to isolate an individual piece of apparatus for maintenance purposes. They do have a screwdriver slot or small handle, the screwdriver slot in-line with the pipe means the water is allowed to flow, and vice versa. Giving them a turn on and off will do no harm.

If your toilet has one of these isolation valves turn it off and see if the noise disappears, like wise for the loft. If no isolation valve is fitted get someone to hold up the float valve in the toilet cistern, while you then turn on the cold tap if the noise has disappeared then this is the faulty float valve. It’s all down to a process of elimination and many things can cause water hammer, for instance the solenoid valves on a dishwasher or washing machine; even the hot and cold taps can have loose washers inside which can cause these machine gun sorts of noises.

As for the spluttering, one thing you can try would be to turn off the water at the cold main where it enters the house, and empty the system, then open both hot and cold taps at the lowest point and open all the upstairs taps so it empties completely, when empty, only then turn back on at the cold main, turning off the cold taps as water starts to be delivered, only turn off the hot taps when water is actually running out of them, this may take longer because the tank in the loft will need to fill-up a little.

If none of this makes any sense, and your DIY skills are being exhausted, I would urge you too contact your local plumber who will be only to glad to rape your wallet.




Beano

Many many thanks Beano. You are a gentleman. I will use your process of elimination. My wallet also thanks you, but as you referred to earlier in the thread, er-indoors keeps the wallet empty anyway.