Were Tangerine Dream the Oasis of their day?

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Originally posted by Nick Lees:
In the 70's The Tangs were mostly ploughing virgin territory (though I've no doubt Tony's got a library full of kraut progenitors - Ash Ra Tempel?).

After Rubicon and Phaedra, they discovered tunes in a big way and started becoming, well, almost prog in style. They made what seems like scores of excellent albums in the late 70's and 80's, but made some serious mistakes (e.g. vocals), and then various key people hopped it and they became terminally dull.

I like pretty much everything up to "Lily On The Beach" (or thereabouts).

I will confess that there were times when I felt I'd probably got enough Tangs (I've got 15), but then you'd see one cheap and couldn't resist....they still get a regular airing, especially "Logos Live" and "Exit".

Oh, and there were some seriously crap pressings on vinyl after the ones you've got.

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I'm seriously impressed, not having one tangerine Dream record, I had Phaedra but I can't remember how and when I ditched it.

Peter

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I bought rubicon today, it might as well be Phaedra.

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Rubicon is the last half good one, after that they were quarter to a fifth good at best.

Buy the first four immediately:

Electronic Meditation: - Think of Pink Floyd’s Saucerful of secrets played by Germans who really hated their parents. A fantastic album, and one that I defy anyone listening to Rubycon would recognise as being the same band – notice I say band, it has guitar, bass, drums, organ etc.

At this point TD hoofed Klaus Schulze and Conrad Schnitzler out for being “too weird” which as everyone knows is a desirable trait. They formed Ash Ra Temple, which were more than a bit good, especially the first two albums. They were really weird, to the point that when Timothy Leary joined them for their third album he made them more normal...

Alpha Centauri: – My favourite TD album. Really weird fucked up soundscapes combining VCS3 blips and squelches with cello and flute etc. A must have, essential, your record collection is shite without it etc…

Atem: - Possibly the weakest of the first four, large Mellotron soundscapes with voice and ends up with the band going into a total chimp frenzy at the end. Well worth having nonetheless (i.e. better than Rubicon).

Zeit: - Double album of drumless soundscapes, a true classic, and an album that influenced The Orb / FSOL etc to a massive extent. Anyone liking FSOL’s Lifeforms should buy this on site.

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In the 70's The Tangs were mostly ploughing virgin territory (though I've no doubt Tony's got a library full of kraut progenitors - Ash Ra Tempel?).

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I’m denying nothing.

Tony.

Who can write this crap pissed...

What did you/do make of Seastones the Phil Lesh thingy, I had it on vinyl around 30 years ago never seen a CD of it.

I got a CD of Terry Riley A Rainbow in Curved Air recently, but it doesn't seem as good as I remember it.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."

I do not know where this disc comes in the TD Reportoire but I enjoy it - it appears to be be ideal music to put a film or slide show to (This is meant to be a positive statement)

It was recorded in 85 and musically describes a collection of public places around the world.

Derek

Only 15, Nick? Sad to say, I seem to have 23 at the moment [although they might have bred since I last looked] which means that I just need the odd 32 or so to complete my collection! [not that I'm going to, you understand, but then if I see them cheap.....]

Personally, I think they only started to get really good after Zeit, although Green Desert [supposedly recorded in '73 but not released until '86] is probably my favourite from their entire oeuvre.

Of course they don't all sound the same - it's just that developments seem to take place at 5 or 6 album intervals, whereas most groups seem to manage that between each album .... I'd say that pretty much anything available on Virgin is excellent, except for Cyclone, which has the horrid vocals on side 1 [side 2's OK though] and all their soundtracks tend to be generally less successful, mostly because they have shorter tracks and the mood keeps changing. There is a particulary excellent clump around the Logos / Tangram / White Eagle period.

After they left Virgin, Poland, Underwater Sunlight & Live Miles are OK [in fact, unlike most bands, their live albums are often their best] but there is the truly appalling 'Tyger' to beware of, which is toe-curling - Blake portentously spoken and sung by a girl who can't even pronounce some of the words .... need I say more?

IMO, three things contributed to their gradual downfall. Digital synthesisers, the Atari ST and increased musical proficiency. This unholy trinity meant that they were off frolicking into sub-Jan Hammer territory with US Cop shows lining up for snappy little numbers to decorate their title sequences before you could say Midi.

I finally gave up after 'Melrose' [a bit nasty]and I think other band members did too, because TD is now just Edgar and his son Jerome [the baby pictured on an early sleeve, which all sounds a bit creepy to me.

www.tangerinedream.de

provides a complete discography with extensive [and long] samples from every album for sheep/goat sorting purposes. Howevr, recently it does rather look as though the Dad 'n' Lad have been reminded of their heritage, and I did click on a sample of their latest offering which sounded rather good, with some of those magisterial chord progressions that passed for tunes in the early 80's ... and there's a recent archive recording of a '76 concert, 'Soundmill Navigator' which I might investigate. Bit worying really ....

throb[red bulb in the bedroom]north

Good god, somewhere down the line I didn't realise they were German.

I seem to have a Kraftwerk album round here somewhere.

I have a general rule about new music. i will listen to the whole thing straight throught then make my mind up.

Kraftwerk stopped me doing that. Firstly because my girlfriend was wetting herself with laughter at the 'autobahn' lyric, and secondly because I was wetting myself at the 'autobahn' lyric.

Now one of you out there needs to own up to recommending this utter tripe to me, so that I can come round with my patented red pinkfloyd hammer and whack you round the head with it.

Lets never forget that david Hasselhoff is big in Germany this should give you an indication of the quality to which they are accustomed.

Does any one want to prove me wrong?

DUCKING FOR COVER.

It was a collaboration by Phil Lesh with some other guy who I can't remember. It was an experimental electronic thingy, lots of low frequencies. It was hardly full of tunes but I was intrigued by it and kept coming back to it, especially when I got my first LP12. If I remember correctly (by no means certain!)I think it was released about 1973, among the first batch of releases when the Dead formed their own record company after leaving Warner Bros. I don't know where/when I lost my copy, but I have never seen a copy since. I'd love a CD of it. I'm off to do a search on Dead net to see if it's lurking there.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."

It's available in an extended version on CD from Amazon. Original was released in 1975, not 73.

Seastones (Extended version)
Ned Lagin
Initial release : Januray 1991

Rykodisk RCD 40193

Experimental electronics. This extended CD release includes the original Seastones plus a second previously unreleased version. Garcia, Hart and Lesh contributed to both versions. Similar music with Lagin involved formed part of some Dead shows in 1974.

Track listing


Seastones (6 sections, previously unreleased)
Seastones (9 sections, originally released version)

Musicians

Track 1

Ned Lagin - piano, clavichord, organ, prepared piano, percussion, synthesizers, computers
Phil Lesh - bass
Jerry Garcia - guitar, voice
David Crosby - guitar, voice
Mickey Hart - percussion
Track 2;

Ned Lagin - piano, clavichord, organ, prepared piano, percussion, synthesizers, computers
David Crosby - guitar, voice
Spencer Dryden - percussion
David Freiberg - voice
Jerry Garcia - guitar, voice
Mickey Hart - percussion
Phil Lesh - bass
Grace Slick - voice

Other credits

Written & arranged by Ned Lagin
Engineers (1975) - Betty Cantor, Bob Matthews, Bill Wolf
Engineers (1990) - Alan Sudduth, John Cutler, Peter Norman
Cover Art - Ruth Poland
Computers/software - Ned Lagin, Scott Wedge
Mastering - Artisan Sound recorders
Digital mastering (1990) - Joe Gastwirt, Ocean View Digital
Produced by Ned Lagin
Photography - Sal Busalacchi, Ned Lagin

Recorded at Rolling Thunder Studios, Ace's Studio, MIT Architecture Machine Group, Brandeis University Electronic Music Studio
Mixed-down at His Master's Wheels Studios - discrete 4 channel quad
Mix-down studios (1990) - Prairie Sun Recording, Cotati, Club Front, San Rafael.
to top

Notes

Track one was recorded during December 1975.

Track two was recorded during February 1975.

Lagin joined the Dead for a number of shows in 1974 playing similar electronic improvisations, sometimes with members of the Dead, at the start of the second set. These segments are usually included on set lists as Seastones or Phil & ned. A number of other 'Seastones' performances also took place in 1974 and 1975.

Related releases

The original Seastones LP comprised track 2 only;


Seastones, Ned Lagin, 1975, Round Records, RX 106
A rough mix, 'basic structure' of Seastones was included on;

Sampler For Deadheads (EP 3 of 3), Robert Hunter / Ned Lagin and Phil Lesh, 1975, Round Records SMP 03
One of the Phil & Ned sections from a Grateful Dead show has been released on CD;


Dick's Picks Vol. 12, Grateful Dead, 1998

I've had a look at amazon (USA), they have it listed in the 'used' section, but haven't got one! Still, at least I know its out there in an extended version on CD.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."

Getting back to good music (!) I picked up three Police albums today, just running through Reggatta de Blanc. Very good.

You people need to understand that even stock favorites like the Police, I don't have, thats what makes this second hand buying so much fun, 1.20 the three.

Have seen some Kraftwerk second hand too, but after the horror whcih was 'Autobahn' I have avoided, just for you nick I may pick up another one.

But once stung twice shy.

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Getting back to good music, I picked up three Police albums today

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This is obviously some strange new usage of the term 'good music' to which I have previously been unaccustomed.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."

Derek,
Several albums originating from TD and its members were essentially film/TV music. One of the tracks on Le Parc is the theme music from a US TV series about a crime fighter with a high-tech motorbike - the name escapes me. Nevertheless, I'm not sure if Le Parc was intended as a made-for-movies album.

Tony,
The first extract of Tangerine Dream that I ever heard was from Alpha Centauri. I have not heard it since but I still remember it 25+ years later! Somehow I've never owned a copy. I must put it on my list...

Shockingly, I can remember nothing of Electronic Meditation, although I remember borrowing it from a record library once.

I'm rather surprised by how many TD albums I own:

• Phaedra
  
• Ricochet: I cannot say there is such as thing as the archetypal Tangerine Dream album but if I had to choose one then this would be it.
  
• Force Majeure
  
• Tangram
  
• Exit: The first one that could be described as being at all poppy - shame about the lo-fi production. Bizarrely, small parts of both Tangram and Exit seem to have been influenced by a disco song, which was probably called D.I.S.C.O, judging by the words.
  
• Logos
  
• White Eagle: One of my favourites.
  
• Hyperborea: The music is clearly influenced, at a superficial level, by Indian classical music.
  
• Poland: Recorded live, poor production or transfer to vinyl - which probably has nothing to do with the fact that it's a live recording.
  
• Le Parc
  
• Green Desert I tihnk this is film music but it's still very listenable to.
  
• Underwater Sunlight: There's nothing in this one that they haven't done before many times but I'm fond of it.

For anyone who has never heard Tangerine Dream before, I would recommend Underwater Sunlight as a gentle introduction - you're unlikely to loathe it. Hyperborea, White Eagle, Logos and Exit are probably unlikely to be found unlistenable but I'd really rather recommend a risk on the less safe but more "purist" stuff from the seventies, such as Ricochet or Phaedra. If you want to pretend that today's trance music had a single antecident then Phaedra has to be the politically correct choice. I only bought my first, badly worn copy fairly recently [having first heard it in the eighties] and I listen to it quite often.

The ones I bought but didn't keep are:

• Zeit: If titles such as "Origin of Supernatural Probabilities" don't put you off then the "ambient" style music might if you're not into that sort of thing.
  
• Tyger I found the setting to music of William Blake's poem so cringe-makingly embarrassing that I couldn't keep it.

JD

Ross, Garyi - brilliant posts, thanks for the humour.

Am I the only one here who rate s Theif?

I also confess to owning Edgar Froese - Stuntman.

Bought Logos Live in an HMV store sale on Oxford St a couple of years back in a sudden twist of nostalgia coupled with the £4.99 section being full of unwanted TD material.

Garyi - ye cannot go wrong with the Police. The boxed set on CD is worth having, as is Police Live. Come on then, slag me off all those stung by my Procol Harum Live vitriol in the past, I dare you!

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

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Get The Mix (or is it just called Mix?), which is truly smashing.

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I have always considered The Mix far too hit and miss – I really like what they did to Radioactivity and Robots, but the treatments of Autobahn and Trans Europe Express were dismal beyond belief.

Rather predictably perhaps I have a full set of Kraftwerk albums, all are worth owning, but the ones that stand out IMHO are:

Kraftwerk 1 & 2 – The first two albums were originally released in the UK as a double album on Vertigo, this is the copy I have so I do tend to lump them together. This is pure Krautrock in the sense of Can or Neu!, it will not be especially recognisable to fans of their later releases. Very freeform, very strange, very wonderful. Thankfully after what seemed like an eternity both albums were finally reissued on CD and limited vinyl a couple of years ago. It is the first time this amazing music has been available in ages, so don’t waste it!

Autobahn – The Kraftwerk album that got me into them, I heard it on the radio when it came out in 74 (I was 11 years old), I bought it as soon as I could afford it. It was like music from another world. It still is.

Trans Europe Express IMHO by far the strongest of their later period stuff, and one of the most influential and important records made in the 70s. A true precursor to the dance scene. Essential stuff.

Tony.

OTD: Kraftwerk 1.

>snip from Warp Records' news<

KRAFTWERK TO PLAY 3 SHOWS IN PARIS IN SEPTEMBER


THE VILLETTE NUMéRIQUE FESTIVAL RUNS 24TH - 29TH SEPT.


Three Kraftwerk shows at Cité de la Musique, Paris:

Wed Sept 25th 20h
Thu Sept 26th 20h
Thu Sept 26th 23h59

tickets

These shows are part of the Villette Numérique Festival which runs from 24th -> 29th September 2002. This is the first year for the biennial event.

From their website: http://www.villette-numerique.com/

"Villette Numérique reflects the creative potential of interacting approaches from different creative fields and the increased convergence of contemporary art, films, music, live performances, the Web and video games especially.

The festival is a joint initiative of the Cité des Sciences, the Cité de la Musique and the Parc de la Villette. It is both a showcase for major works from around the world and a forum for experimentation and study. It's aim is to bring together projects directly involved in the use of digital technologies and it encourages visitors to share in many experiments during their visit.

A news piece on the festival says that LFO, Fennesz, Kid 606, The Rapture and many more will also play .. check out the news piece here: www1.lesinrocks.com

Wonders will never cease. Shame I can't make it...

Lee

PS My Essential Kraftwerk: Autobahn; Radioactivity; TEE, Man Machine (I've never heard Kraftwerk 1 & 2, so I can't comment)

"Getting back to good music (!) I picked up three Police albums today"

First saw The Police when they were the support band for Alberto Y Los Trios Paranoias.

Other support bands ? ...

Joy Division
Kajagoogoo(:eek:)

from the sublime to the ridiculous

In a rather strange mood a few weeks ago, I decided that Can were a pile of crap and threw all my discs away.... so perhaps I shouldn't invest in any Tangerine Dream.

David

Regretting it now, but I think Future Days, Soon over Babaluma and Tago Mago bit the dust. Was suffering from shelf space anxiety - you'll be please to hear that the Birtwistle is still there.

David

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In a rather strange mood a few weeks ago, I decided that Can were a pile of crap and threw all my discs away....

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Novel idea of space saving that… starting with the best albums you own.

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Regretting it now, but I think Future Days, Soon over Babaluma and Tago Mago bit the dust. Was suffering from shelf space anxiety

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Those are all good ones! I’m assuming you only flung CDs, if it was original vinyl I’m reporting you for crimes against humanity.

Tony.

Tony,

They were all CDs - which reminds me, I'm pretty sure I have Tago Mago on vinyl, but that's all at my sisters house. Must give her a call....

Also threw out all my Young Gods albums - does this counterbalance the Can?

David

Tony you beat me too it. I now hearby state that any vinyl throwing should be done in my direction.

Not tony's he has enough!