US Mains dedicated line... technical questions

I can't recommend any modification to your grounding scheme, at a minimum what you suggest MAY cause a ground loop (as you describe) and at a maximum may compromise the grounding integrity of your electrical installation. You could have an electrician improve the connection to the ground rod (or add another if you like) but any DIY modification to that may raise the ire of your utility or put you at fault if there's some sort of accident...
As to #2, I recommend trying this: Turn on all that stuff in the house and listen critically to your system. Unplug (if possible) or simply turn it all off and see if you get any improvements. Then reintrouduce it all one-by-one and see what thing(s) cause you problems. You could try moving phases if you noticed a difference.
And for #3, again, experiment. I'm going to guess that the TV will pump noise on your line, but you'll have to try it and see (don't forget to unplug it, it's probably got a line filter!).
Isn't this hobby fun? You may have to have all the lights out and unplugged for it to sound it's best!!??
There are others that may have better ideas, go for it guys!
David

Hi Yannzola,

It's very exciting because you seem to have hit on the same solution as me. I was beginning to wonder if anyone would ever have a clue what I was talking about!

I tried the separate ground rod, it dramatically increased the bass power and silence with 135s but when I moved to a 500 it actually sounded worse, music losing coherence groove and flow. So I was never really convinced about the separate ground rod.

What does work is reducing the guage of the cable to 8 guage or even 6 if you can find a way to connect it to the recepticle, 10 doesn't seem worth it from 12. I coudn't find 2-wire single phase 6 guage and 8 guage went in the recepticle I used with a bit of patience. It is actually a fairly inexpensive square "decor" type. And getting the direction right is important, I wired two runs in opposite directions to 2 separate sockets to check the difference. It was very noticeable in my case. In fact the difference between the two directions of 8 guage was greater than the difference between 8 and 14 guage. I didn't notice any difference in sound between phases, although with old stageline the pops from switching a record cleaner on and off were much louder using one phase than the other. I also broke the links to the unused second recepticle in the double recepticle but don't know what difference it makes.

Do you use the Wiremold strip?

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy (and NaimDropper),

I wish I had asked what gauge wire to run =before= sealing the walls back up... oh well. 12 gauge will have to do for now -- I'm far too lazy to run cable again ;-).

It sounds like simply running the ground wire to the main panel buss is the way to go... For safety and simplicities sake.

I'll definetly try isolating the noiser appliances to the opposite phase... since this is relatively easy for me to implement.

Regarding the TV... I just realized I could easily set up two seperate pairs of outlets --the kit running on the new "dedicated" line via a wiremold strip, and the TV + DVD running on the old existing circuit. Hmmm... but what would happen if I connected the DVD player to the NAC (via a DIN to RCA adapter)? I don't think the DVD or TV are "grounded" via a three prong plug... but would I introduce noise or run into loops connecting units from one circuit to another via RCA?

Jeremy,
What do you mean by "direction"? Are you referring to the Romex? If so... I hope I got it right the first time... because I'm not digging it back out! Lazy lazy lazy me. I didn't realize Romex was directional! Ugh.

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Originally posted by JeremyB:
Do you use the Wiremold strip?

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Yup. I use a Wiremold strip.


y.

NAC102 + SUPERCAP
NACDS+PSCD
NAP135

yannzola-

whay use a wiremold strip when you could plug all kit directly into "hospital grade" outlets fed from your dedicated lines?

i plan on installing two lines when we move into our new house in april.

cheers,
ian

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why use a wiremold strip when you could plug all kit directly into "hospital grade" outlets fed from your dedicated lines?

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Because the Wiremold strip sounds better. No-one came up with anything better yet.

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What do you mean by "direction"? Are you referring to the Romex?

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Yes, direction of the Romex. Every time I have tried it the "correct" direction is if you start reading the printing (Romex 12 AWG....etc) at the panel and finish reading at the hi-fi.

quote:

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I just realized I could easily set up two seperate pairs of outlets --the kit running on the new "dedicated" line via a wiremold strip, and the TV + DVD running on the old existing circuit. Hmmm... but what would happen if I connected the DVD player to the NAC (via a DIN to RCA adapter)? I don't think the DVD or TV are "grounded" via a three prong plug... but would I introduce noise or run into loops connecting units from one circuit to another via RCA?

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I would plug them all in the wiremold strip if the audio signals are all connected together. At least all the white wires (connected to ground) will then be common. You might also want to try plugging the DVD into the mains power the two different ways ie white wire to black wire and visa versa, there should be a big difference in the sound.

[This message was edited by JeremyB on WEDNESDAY 11 February 2004 at 07:20.]

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Originally posted by JeremyB:
You might also want to try plugging the DVD into the mains power the two different ways ie white wire to black wire and visa versa, there should be a big difference in the sound.

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Hmmm... Are you suggesting I reverese the polarity? This seems rather dangerous to me... I reckon I'd blow a fuse pronto (hopefully) by shorting out the circuit. Or have I got things mixed up?

BTW: Thanks for the tip on Romex! I had =no= idea it was directional. I'll check how I've got it wired this eve. Fingers crossed.

y.

I just finished installing a dedicated 20A receptacle in my house (built in 1940). The house is mostly wired with the original Greenfield/armored cable. Since my listening room is directly above my breaker panel, I was able to thread the wiremold cord through the return air duct and plug it into the new decicated receptacle, one ft. or so from the breaker panel. Because I was running such a short piece of 10/2 Romex, I didn't care about directionality, nor did I wish to be so neurotic as to run a second separate dedicated receptacle with the direction of the Romex reversed to compare with one another; however I was told that directionality does make a difference with longer runs. By coincidence, I installed by Romex as JeremyB recommends. I also splurged on a PS Audio Power Port for my receptacle. The sound is immediately night/day better even with a 3hr. cold Nait5.


Corey

Y,

No, please do not short the wires! Depending on your plug, it may be possible to a non-grounded plug two different ways into the recepticle. On way should sound better. I believe there are adapters available fromn the hardware store that enable you to do this. With reversible plugs the two prongs are the same width, for non-reversible ones one prong is wider than the other. It made a big difference with my Rega Planet CD player.

Jeremy

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Originally posted by JeremyB:
With reversible plugs the two prongs are the same width, for non-reversible ones one prong is wider than the other. It made a big difference with my Rega Planet CD player.

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Gotcha this time... reverse the direction of the two pronged plug at the end of the DVD player. No shorting involved.

So... I checked my run of 12/2 Romex last night: No luck. Looks like I've got mine wired the other way round

Oh well... I'm certain it'll sound better than it does now, regardless. Currently the hifi is at the =end= of a multi-branched circuit that includes 4 compact flourecent lights, a bathroom fan, and an electric toothbrush.

Anything will be an improvment.

Thanks to all for the tips, you guys are great!

y.

Will you guys explain to me how 10mm wire converts into American guage. If I want to run a 10mm wire into my mains what guage wire do I ask my electrican to install?

Ira

This is a pretty good conversion table.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/awg_e.html

Ira,
Are you in the UK or the US? 10mm may be the recommended wire size for a UK mains installation... =but= if you're state-side you should probably stick to what is recommended for our set ups here. It's a bit like comparing/converting apples to limes

Naim USA recommends "a dedicated 15 A circuit, complete with new wire, directly to your system. One dual (2) socket hospital-grade outlet is all that is necessary."

Most folks supersize this from a 15 A to a 20 A circuit, with anywhere from 8 to 12 AWG wire running from the mains to the kit.
(read the other posts in this thread for more info...)

y.

Thanks Y,

I am in the NY area. Is there anyone around the NYC/NJ area who has experimented with one or two 20 amp circuits and 8 to 12 AWG wire? What is the recommended type of grounding for American circuits?

Ira

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Originally posted by afshar:
Thanks Y,

I am in the NY area. Is there anyone around the NYC/NJ area who has experimented with one or two 20 amp circuits and 8 to 12 AWG wire? What is the recommended type of grounding for American circuits?

Ira

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Have you read the previous posts yet?

David and Jeremy both seem to have successfully experimented with different wiring configurations. Maybe they'll provide more details?

Ground your kit directly to the main buss bar at the mains panel or to the grounding post that this buss bar attaches to. =DO NOT= attempt to create a seperate (new) ground for your kit! This could compromise your entire home/building's grounding scheme... Very very bad. If you don't feel competent to do this yourself... hire an electrician! Electricity kills.

y.

Thanks again Y,

That's the first post that I can understand. The rest is too technical for me. Now what about one 20 amp circut (with wiremold) vs. two 20 amp circuits (my dealer's recommendation). I know NANA only recommends one circuit and K. K. has said that two separate circuits leads to imbalance. Has anyone experimented and can report on the perceived differences between one and two circuits.

Ira