Minimum requirements for NBL'S

Matt

You need at least old 250 active or new 250 passive.

Another hi-cap or even supercap must be your next step.

Emil

My NBL's have run great on an olive 250. Of course you will get more with 135's or a 300 etc.

tw

Upgrade your amp.
A 180 will never be able to control NBL's bass drivers.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Thanks for all the replies,

Firstly upon settling down to listen last night the bass probs I was experiencing prevously had all but disapeared i fact things were sounding much better!! I was'nt playing the same disc so perhaps that was the culprit(the disc was Erica badu baduism)? I will play it again to check but didn't have the chance,I was enjoying bob james too much!!

varguas
nbls do not work very well with "old" i.e olive series

Ummmm.....the nbl was designed before the new kit so why would Naim bother producing a speaker that does'nt work very well with its other components?? thats just plain stupid & don't believe this to be in anyway true.It sounds to me that your dealer is misleading you purposely. I get the distinct impression that he wants you to think that you should part exchange all your old kit (at a considerable loss) and purchase new kit from himself (at great expence). Not all dealers are like this I must add but this one sounds dodgy, their usually working on some angle to exstract the most amount from your pocket & transfer it to their pocket..BEWARE!!

One point though, I can definately recommend the nbls & with your set up would sound great surely?


Jun keller

Upon reading your profile I understand that you own a 6 pack super driving said speakers= very nice
This could be an option for me later on down the upgrade trail.... However if I go 2*135's passive as a next move in the power amp dept it will invaribly mean that the next move is 4 more + snaxo +power supply = active..right? Thats alot of boxes & I am worried that I won't have enough space plus the wife will start frowning I,m sure I would like to go active but poss with 3 * 250 instead what do you think?? Also when replace the hicap for a super on the 82 it will leave in free to power the snaxo later on.

"did you try thr fraim chips"

Answer = No, I thought these were used under the fraim spikes to protect a bare floor surface, are you suggesting that I use them under the spikes of the Nbl's? note I have thick/heavy carpet!

I would be interested to hear more from you & your set up i.e how you progressed & the kchanges observed. Cheers.

Emil F

Hello, I,m not planing on going down the "new stuff" route, this would be too expensive an option for me, it feels like I,m just getting there with the "old stuff".

You,re right about the pre upgrade either a super or a power amp is the next move depends what crops up in good cond at a good price! This will only happen once I,ve finished paying for the beasts & had a chance to catch my breath!

Do you think that replacing the 180 wth an olive 250 will show a resonable improvement, if so how much? I would want to go active eventually, the options for me are 3*250's or 6*135's. Do you have any experience of the sonic differences of the two? Cheers.

Tristram

Hello,
The Great White North huh, where do you live Alaska, Siberia? Somewhere cold I,m sure

I would like to hear about your experiences with running nbls. It sounds from what you,ve said that I could get on well with a 250 then I could add two more & go active, if I go 135's 6 of these bastards are going to take up some room man!!


Manu

Hello again,

Thanks for contributing, Incidently the 180 was doing just great with Bob james grand piano canyon last night! I do realise the 180 isn't the most ideal choice to drive nbls but I got the speakers at a good price, I knew I would have to change the power amp ...but what for?

I understand that you like active & that you prefer 3*250 to 2*135'S, could you explain the sonic differences? And what about the classic 6 pack is it worth it? how much better is it than say the 3*250 arrangement?

I would especially like to hear from you in regard to getting the best out of the Nbl's with "The old stuff" as everyone keeps saying. You must have a wealth of knowledge & experience to draw upon due to your position as a naim dealer. Cheers!



Any further help from you guys is greatly appreciated...Ta

Mad Boy Matt

quote:

---

Hello again,

Thanks for contributing, Incidently the 180 was doing just great with Bob james grand piano canyon last night! I do realise the 180 isn't the most ideal choice to drive nbls but I got the speakers at a good price, I knew I would have to change the power amp ...but what for?

I understand that you like active & that you prefer 3*250 to 2*135'S, could you explain the sonic differences? And what about the classic 6 pack is it worth it? how much better is it than say the 3*250 arrangement?

I would especially like to hear from you in regard to getting the best out of the Nbl's with "The old stuff" as everyone keeps saying. You must have a wealth of knowledge & experience to draw upon due to your position as a naim dealer. Cheers!

Any further help from you guys is greatly appreciated...Ta

Mad Boy Matt

---

My NBL's should be arriving next week (Doug, please pull your finger out!)
I will be running them first with a 250, then 3x250's and then with a 300. (All on the same day)
I will be pleased to offer my opinion on the relative merits after listening to the whole shebang.
The 300 I originally demoed with NBL's was considerably better than my Olive 250 on it's own...

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

Thanks Blythe,

This info would be of great interest to me....let me know how it goes!

Cheers

Mad Boy Matt

Varguas ....

"yes could be" .............what are you saying man speak up !

Mad Boy Matt

Var mate,

Basically you have to ask yourself the question have i got room for two washing machines in my living room/listening room. If so and you like your music at disco levels then maybe you should take your dealer up on the offer of the dbl's

Mad Boy Matt

Matt

olive 250 will do the job for you, too. It's a big improvement over 180. You'll be surprised!
You can expect more of: bass extension, punch, dynamic, weight. Upgrading preamp PSU will add: bass extension once again, much greater stage, better mids and highs, more transparency.

Then you can do 3 x 250.

135 is of course better than olive 250, but it means also additional money for racks.

New design boxes will do everything better. They will kill the last signs of agression of NBL. Something that /passive/ olive box can't do.

Here is my proposal. Make a home demo of a new 250. It will be better, if you find a supercap for the demo. Here comes the real bass.


I hope you've done all the tweakes.

Regards

Emil

Thanks for the info/support Emil.. but I really don't want to go to the darkside...its so scary there aaaarrrggghhhh.

Really though I plan to stick with that terrible "old stuff" so an olive super on the 82 & 250/135 to be thought over...the way forward is begining to focus

Mad Boy Matt

Matt--

I think the first thing you should do is to replace the Hicap with a Supercap. The second is to either swap the 82 for a 52 or to change the CDX to a CDS2. A 52/180 will be better driving NBLs than 82/Super/250.

Of course, availability of gear at the right price has a certain charm.....

What I think you really need to do is establish where you want to finish and then to only acquire gear that advances you toward that goal. So if a 250 comes up first, go for it. But if a 52 comes up first, go for it.

Best,

Bob

Matt.

I am using S2, 52, 250 Fraimed up on 2 stacks. The NBL's are great with this set, and my only problem is the room that they are in. This is a temporary issue. Bass boom is apparent on some cd's again, a room issue; but otherwise a remarkable speaker. The most important things about NBL's is the room location (allowing the bass ports room to breath), and making sure they are level.

Great White North is from the Mackenzie Brothers, which were Rick Moranis and Dave Thomas. A parody about beer swilling, touque wearing, "Eh" saying wacko's from North of the Border, who are permanently snowed in. In other words The Great White North is actually Canada...
tw

if I go 2*135's passive as a next move in the power amp dept it will invaribly mean that the next move is 4 more + snaxo +power supply = active..right?

Yes. I used to have 4*135s / Snaxo / Supercap into SBLs, so I added another pair of 135s, swapped the Snaxo and the SBLs for the NBL-Snaxo and the NBLs.

I would like to go active but poss with 3 * 250 instead what do you think??

I didn't try 250s, but before the purchase of the 3rd pair of my 135s I used 135s passive into NBLs which was already much better than my active SBL-setup. My friend has Briks with one 250 which sounds great too! So I think an active setup with 250 would be lovely for NBLs. Forget all about that "olive stuff is not up to NBLs"...

Fraimchips: are you suggesting that I use them under the spikes of the Nbl's? note I have thick/heavy carpet!

I remember that somebody on the forum recommended using the chips even on carpet... But I am not sure IIRC. I use them between my NBLs and the wooden suspended floor.

- Jun

Matt,

Depending on your circumstances, you are either in a very good or very bad place.

From my experience with NBL's (and I am listening to mine as I write this), in buying yours you have done two things :

1) You have effectively put a much bigger magifying glass over your system. That's great if your system has nothing to hide, but if it has, watch out. The good news is that these speakers will pay you back in spades for anything you do for them. Nothing is subtle.

2) You have brought a much bigger animal into the house that needs a lot more control and discipline. Your 180 simply doesn't have the balls for the job.

The above is either good or bad news. If you want to build an extraordinary system and are prepared for the expense, you are on the right track. If you have done your dash on the speakers, you are in trouble.

The proposition that NBL's only sound good with the new gear assumes that Naim intentionally designed a crap sounding speaker. NBL's were designed to sound good with the old series. The fact that they really blossom with the new series is a bonus.

Obvious next steps are to replace your 82 with a 52 and your 180 with a 250 or (much better) a pair of 135's.

I won't tell you what I would do next because it would probably elicit howls of protest from theorists who have never had a pair of NBL's in their house. Anyway, it's your system and your money so you need to listen and choose for yourself.

Good luck !

it might well be

quote:

---

2) Power amp isn't accuratly controlling the bass drivers & a move to a 250 or 135's is inevitable.

---

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Bob: Thanks for your advice but I,m most likely to go for a 250 or 135's rather than a supercap first. When you speak of establishing where I want to finish,I don,t think I will ever truely finish...never say never and all that! ........... I,d like to get the most out of my CDX-XPS front end before replacing the CDX with a CDS2.

The 52 would communicate a more accurate signal to the 180 than the 82 granted, but the ability of the 180 to drive the nbls would not change!


Jun Keller: I had already forgot about all this "olive stuff is not up NBL'S" thing I,m gonna stick with it man!


Minky: I,m in a very good place mate!! You are right although the 180 is trying awfully hard, it hasn't got balls of pendulus magnitude, I basically require amplification with large bollax.
I want to keep hold of the 82 for a bit , I
will get a super for it though!

Now what is this...thing that you are going to do next, it has an air of menace to it!


Rico: yes me get amp

Mad Boy Matt

Matt--

There is a FAR greater improvement from Hicap to Supercap than there is from 180 to 250. And having done the dem, 82/Super/180 KILLS 82/Hicap/250 into both SBLs and NBLs. Front end first and all that.

Like I've said elsewhere, availability hath a certain charm, so if you get a good deal on a 250 go for it. It will not, however, be the best upgrade you could make.

Best,

Bob

mmmmmm ok so maybe it will be a super first then

Mad Boy Matt

I had already forgot about all this "olive stuff is not up NBL'S" thing I,m gonna stick with it man!



I would get both the Supercap and the 250 (135s), anyway at a later point you will have both of them. So if you go s/h just take whatever comes along first at a good deal!

Olive rocks man!

- Jun

I,m up around 230-240 hours into the run-in & things are really improving each time I listen..Glad I'm over the dodgy mid way run in blues this was almost worst than say......attemting to log on and.... well not log on... cus system is down again

That was yesterday ...........Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far....STOP YOU MANIAC....what?....STOP I TELL YOU.. YOUR MAD...MAD ...YES BLOODY RAVING MAD..........but..Yestersday all m........NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...THINK CALM THOUGHTS...RELAX...THERE WAS NO YESTERDAY....no yesterday?...THATS RIGHT, NO YESTERDAY.........ok.. I feel calm there is no yesterday..there was no yesterday ............yesterday?...............Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away.... I'M GONNA KILL YOU !

Mad Boy Matt