Nine Inch Nails and the HDX
Posted by: glevethan on 06 May 2008
An interesting development occurred yesterday in relation to music downloads and servers. The band Nine Inch Nails released their new album yesterday and it is free and available only via download (for now). The interesting thing, especially in light of the server discussions we are having on our forum, are the file formats which are available. Coldplay was one of the first to do this HOWEVER I believe that their album was released only as compressed MP3 files. Nine Inch Nails have gone one better.
High quality MP3-FLAC-Apple Lossless- and - ta da - 24/96 are the formats made available. The FLAC and Apple Lossless files tag in at about 280Mb. The 24/96 a whopping 1.2 gig. The distribution protocol used was also interesting in that it was not a simple download from a server but rather a torrent which used other downloaders as uploaders. As such my download took no time and I am sure that the 24/96 would also download in an extremely reasonable amount of time.
Now we have a real world example of some of the formats which a popular band has decided to use. Somehow the Apple supporter in me wants to also shout out to those who commented on the long term longevity of Apple Lossless as a format.
Gregg
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by James Lehmann
Well I tried downloading the 24/96 version.
It's not quite so straight-forward as you need a little program called Bit-Torrent
So I downloaded that and all I got was this:
I did get a folder on my desktop full of the album files after only a few seconds, including the sizes indicated (160MB etc) but none of them will actually play. It couldn't possibly have downloaded that quick.
I'm not really a big NIN fan (although I'll give this a listen). My main reason for downloading was to see how long it takes on a normal broadband ADSL connection to try to ascertain whether it's actually viable to release music for download in high-resolution. Perhaps someone can just tell me how long it takes for 1.4GB?
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by Jack Barron
Thanks for the info Gregg. I am downloading all of the formats at the moment.
Mind you I haven't yet thought about how I am going to play the Wave 24/96 version of the album on my Mac yet.
Ever more bands and acts are going to release in free digital file formats and punters are going to respond with their cash.
When your favourite act allows you to download their latest album for free, then the chances are you will buy something that can play it through your hi-fi.
That is where a Naim DAC would be handy for people who already have Naim amps, power supplies and CD players.
Jack
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by glevethan
James
By your screen shot it appears that you are using a Mac. Download the bit torrent client (program) TRANSMISSION. It will work fine.
Jack
Adventurous to download ALL of the formats. I downloaded the FLAC file. My take was that I could then use the Mac program MAX to convert to any other format I wanted. I was tempted to download the 24/96 however like you no way to play it. On the other hand I could download it and bring it with me tonight. I am going to an open house at my dealer (States) to meet Mr. Tiefenbrun who will be personally demoing the DS products.
Gregg
PS don't know that much about NIN however I guess I will find out
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by pcstockton
Oh my.... do yourself a favor and find a way to play 24/96 FLACs. SOOOOO GOOD!!!!
It is a huge difference, noticeable by even the most novice set of ears.
By the way, Trent Reznor is very much into the digital music revolution, encourages file sharing sites, and even is a member of some.
He understands the future of music and is embracing it.
Lastly, if you like the some vinyl releases, not necessarily for the analog sound, but more for the different mix/release/remaster etc, 24/96 Vinyl transfers are the only way to go.
Downside???? The average out to be about 1 GB per album. Maybe less sometimes.
That is only 400 albums on the HDX. bummer.
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by glevethan
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
Oh my.... do yourself a favor and find a way to play 24/96 FLACs. SOOOOO GOOD!!!!
Well I guess the "cheap" way at present is the Sneaky DS at $2K
Gregg
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by James Lehmann
Thanks Gregg - Transmission worked much better.
Downloading a whole album of 24-bit/96k uncompressed WAV files took about 1 hour on my connection.
As the music/technology industry has so spectacularly failed to support DVD-A and thus denied me the option of ever purchasing music on a high-quality physical medium, I think I will have to live with downloads in future:
Two provisos:
1) Once I've paid for the music I want to be able to download it as many times as I want
2) There are no copy-protection issues that prevent me from making my own back-ups
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by zep
hi.
just downloading the 24/96 format, (no problems) but I want to burn it to a CD-R so I can play it on the CDX2, but it just don't work.
using a program called burrn.
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by James Lehmann
quote:
Originally posted by zep:
just downloading the 24/96 format, (no problems) but I want to burn it to a CD-R so I can play it on the CDX2, but it just don't work.
using a program called burrn.
Well, you need a piece of software that does three things:
1) Sample-rate conversion from 96k to 44.1k
2) Dithers from 24-bit down to 16-bit
3) Writes Redbook standard CD's
On the Mac I use Waveburner with a plug-in called Ozone, but I'm a studio engineer so I know what I'm doing and it's an expensive, professional mastering program! Each step of that process is complex and can introduce errors and unwanted artifacts - I really don't know what to recommend to a layman.
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by glevethan
Not sure however I think that you could use MAX to convert and downscale the file as mentioned above. Then use TOAST to burn
Gregg
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by pcstockton
Zep,
I seriously discourage you to dither the file down to red book specs.
I have never heard a good sounding dither.
Perhaps it is the hardware/software, but I recommend burning to DVD and playing there.
OR
Dont d/l the 24/96, and grab the 16/44 instead.
Many people who do vinyl transfers, "rip" in both 24/96, AND 16/44. Then have both options. They do not usually do a 24/96 then simply dither it down.
Just my 2 cents.
If you are eventually going to use it in a red book situation, why even bother with the huge file of a 24/96.
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by glevethan
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
If you are eventually going to use it in a red book situation, why even bother with the huge file of a 24/96.
Thats why I grabbed the FLAC. Maybe I will get to listen to the Sneaky tonight (however I doubt it - they most likely want to push the Akkurate/Klimax).
Gregg
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by Billy Rubin
Anyone know whether or not the AV2 can decode stereo 24/96?
Could download to Mac and then output optical digital to AV2.
BR
Posted on: 06 May 2008 by Jack Barron
quote:
Originally posted by glevethan:
Jack
Adventurous to download ALL of the formats. I downloaded the FLAC file. My take was that I could then use the Mac program MAX to convert to any other format I wanted. I was tempted to download the 24/96 however like you no way to play it. On the other hand I could download it and bring it with me tonight. I am going to an open house at my dealer (States) to meet Mr. Tiefenbrun who will be personally demoing the DS products.
Gregg
PS don't know that much about NIN however I guess I will find out
Gregg I decided to download all the formats, because I thought it would be fun to compare them side by side.
It's just a drag that there is no obvious Mac way to use the 24/96 files. Certainly it is taking the longest to download. All the others have come down pretty quickly.
Jack
Posted on: 17 May 2008 by Jedi
Just so you know, the servers all do 24/96, can't stick it on the drive or download it directly(yet) but put it on a usb stick in the front socket and Robert's your mothers brother.
Posted on: 18 May 2008 by David Dever
Nine Inch Nails - The SlipAs downloaded via BitTorrent (make sure you get the files after the 15 May update, as the previous files were 16-bit/96kHz padded to 24-bit/96 kHz; more info on the hydrogenaudio forums)
Cleaned up for NS01
( Artist Folder / Album Folder / Tracks + Album Art )
Mounting the Flash Drive on the NS01
Browsing the Library
Selecting the USB Flash Drive
Browsing the Flash Drive by Album
The album in question
Show Tracks (note icon to left of file name)
Playing the Tracks
streamed to local system via analogue out + Hi-Line
Posted on: 18 May 2008 by Roy Donaldson
Stop it !
I feel the need to just phone my dealer for some unknown reason arggh....
Posted on: 19 May 2008 by Jedi
Go on do it, you know you want to!
I tell you, I am deeply in love with my NS01!
I cannot wait to hear the HDX, am going to my dealer on the 31st of this month for the Naim 'Summer Sounds Roadshow' to check it out.
If anyone wants to know, I'll report back.
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by gary1 (US)
Dave, 2 questions come to mind after reviewing your well illustrated steps:
1. When you say "cleaned up for NS01" does this imply something you needed to do with the Naim software once the 24 bit file was downloaded to your flash drive which was then USB connected to the NS01 or is this something done automatically by the Naim software as it "scanned" your attached devices for new files?
2. Any loss in quality as file went USB to NS01 and analog out vs. firewire connection or if file had been able to be downloaded directly to NS01? Thanks
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by Macker
What dave was intimating was that the download simply has a bunch of files in a single directory named "Nine Inch Nails - The Slip - Wave 96-24 High Res"...it is better to have the files in a sub folder which is the name of the album..i.e.
Artist Folder / Album Folder / Tracks + Album Art
Hope this helps...I am looking forward to hearing it to be honest.
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by David Dever
iTunes organizes its audio files in much the same way:
Artist Name
Album Title
XX - Track Name (where XX is a two-digit number from 00 to 99)
folder.jpg (album cover image is placed in same folder as audio files, unlike iTunes)
Simple as that, really.
Posted on: 22 May 2008 by David Dever
Sorry, browsing iPhone on train-all I did was to clean up the folder structure before transferring to USB flash drive-no copying to NS01 required.
Likewise, I can pull out the USB flash drive (after unmounting from the NS01, which places a database file on the flash drive volume itself) to insert into another NS-series server (or, an HDX, for example).
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by james n
The more i see the Naim interface, the more i hope the players sound better than the Linn DS units
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by Macker
quote:
Originally posted by james n:
The more i see the Naim interface, the more i hope the players sound better than the Linn DS units
Won't be hard....
Posted on: 27 May 2008 by Jedi
Amen
