NAC552 in HI-FI+

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They only print reviews about products they like. The bad stuff doesn't make it into print, a policy that I personally like.
John

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john,

i've read this and heard this many times from audio reviewers. it's only half of the truth. questions to ask:

1: all products never mentioned in a mag automatically are crap?

2: do you think there is no correlation between advertisements and reviews?

3: don't you think that a reviewer receives more credibility when he is not only recommending but also critisizing? how long do you believe someone who states every month: "this is the best i've ever heard."? (please refer to the moneymagazines who told their readers 'til the bitter end how to get rich in a week)

i once wrote a lengthy review of royd minstrels for a german hifi magazine. high standard. they never published it for the sole reason that the german distributor had not paid for his latest ad.

believe me when i say that all hifi-mags write about things they do not like. they write about things they get ads for and things they believe their readers will like. they have to have a new champion every single month. the language in this forum tells me that many contributors have fallen for their language. in a magazine tiny differences have to be big, big differences enormous. that's the game. so do not trust them.
after all they want to be bought too. if they were honest to people they would lose half of their readership. they laugh at people paying ridiculous money for a stylus. they review speakers for 5000 Euro because they know it is psychological barrier for many buyers, despite the fact that readers could be happier with one for less money. but those people are the ones that pay 8 quid for a magazine. the business is far too small for real independence of the mags. they are part of the game.

this is not meant to discredit to naim or the review of the 552. this is just another way to stress that you have judge for yourself if it is worth it. if you rely on mags, you're lost.

<i>The most important upgrade: Forget about your system. </i>

"I've personally no idea how the NAP 500 stacks up versus the competition"

"I think that the 500 represents relatively-speaking pretty poor value for money".

Can anybody spot how the above two sentences found within the same paragraph don't quite add up???

Thorsten,
I fully appreciate your point and it was something that I discussed this morning with one of my work colleagues who brought in the HiFi choice with the 552 review. He thought it was strange that every product released by a select few British companies (Naim, Musical fidelity, Chord, to name a few) won the "Editor's Choice" every month in HiFi Choice. I explained to him pretty much the point you made to me.
John

for Mick parry to make even a tiny weeny negative comment about anything that Naim does. All I see is a bunch of sycophantic posts about Naim products and other posts that do tell people such things as their system is "crying out for 52" .Even if Nap 500 was £25,000 he would probably say that it represented excellent value for money.

Personally I can not comment on the value for money or otherwise of a Nap 500 as I have not heard enough of any competition etc to be able to..

All I can say is that praise from Mick Parry in my mind is not something that I would pay too much attention to.

If however Mick ever writes something negative about Naim then i may pay attention.

Regards

Belsizepark

Sorry James

Can you once and for clear it up for me and let me know if you have had a dem of a nap500. A simple yes or no would be great.

Mick said regarding the NAP500:

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Is there anything better out there for the same money........can't think of anything.

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Well I'd (predictably) add the Linn Klimax Solos as a contender. Both of similar quality, but it's like comparing apples and pairs.

By the time people get to that stage, they usually know which side of the fence they are sitting. Having said that, a NAC552/NAP500 vs. Klimax Kontrol/Klimax Solo will be a classic demo. Add a DNM equivalent to the contest will make it even more intrigueing.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Tip 1: Change your mains plug fuses at least once a year

"ATC Active 100s which are internationally acknowledged definitive reference monitors"

Is this straight from the sales blurb?

Bose speakers could be described as being 'internationally acknowledged' and they are by and large a crock of shit.

James MCP said:

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The Nap 500 is very poor value when compared with the ATC Active 100s

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...and yet you haven't heard the NAP500. Come on! That's like saying that you don't believe NAP500's exist because you haven't seen one!

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Tip 1: Change your mains plug fuses at least once a year

Yeah, but how do they compare in musical terms?

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Tip 1: Change your mains plug fuses at least once a year

Your evaluation is based on odd criteria. To me it's like saying 'Why buy free range eggs when you can get so many more of the ordinary ones for less money'.

A nait blows away most sub grand amps in MUSICAL terms but it does not have bells and whistles and is not that powerful. Should people buy the inferior competition instead??

As for the nap500 not driving difficult loads.. what can I say. Maybe you should get to actually hear one rather than dishing out this 'my mate says' sort of rubbish.

Sir

Why do you want me to criticise Naim if I cannot find anything to criticise them for.

I repeat myself....I find their products the best that there is for the money. I like the sound, the quality, the longevity, and the service back up. I am paid in my job to criticise suppliers, so I will do so remorselessly if necessary, but on the other hand, if someone makes a first class product, I will enthusiastically endorse it.

Why do you have a problem with that.

Regards

Mick

"The Nap 500 is very poor value when compared with the ATC Active 100s which are internationally acknowledged definitive reference monitors. Pay attention in future."

James the rubbish just keeps coming, most of the studios you talk about are responsible for some of the most awful recordings on the planet.
don't talk about the 500 and what it will and will not drive you have no idea.

Just to make things clear in case people have forgotten or simply don't know:

The 500 is an absolutely mind blowing amp that plays music with ball-bruiser dynamics and staggering transparencey. In a CDS2/52/ based system with WB ACT 2 it plays so loud and pure with vanishingly low distortion and clarity you sometimes wonder what planet you are on. It digs so deep into the music and brings out the best of even some of the worst recordings around. It should be nicknamed "the great illuminator" in the way it brings live music to life, no matter how dismal the recording. Just listen to a few Birthday Party or Joy Division live CD bootlegs to get an idea what it can do with "non-audiophile" recordings. Who ever said overly transparent speakers and amps reveal source deficiencies? In my mind, when done properly (as in the 500 or ACT 2), a transparent back end brings out a lot more good than bad in a weak recording (given you have a fine source, like the CDS2/52).

Kudos to Naim!

Exactly right.

Bob

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because it simply hasn't got enough power to control the drive units properly.

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I don't know what this means. 'Control' is meaningless in terms of amp-speaker relationships.

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Nor does it have the transient headroom that the ATC amps have.

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I don't understand what you mean by 'transient headroom'.

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And remember they are Class A triamplifiers with more than twice the maximum power output of a NAP 500.

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They're not 'Class A'. From a power pov the only relevant figure is that for the bass amp, which is a mere 200W. Which is insignificantly more than the NAP500 into an 8 Ohmish load.

I think you're falling into the hifi bollocks trap. Perhaps a re-evaluation of those 'musical criteria' would help?

Paul

Thank you for verbalising my thoughts on the 500 etc.

Derek

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Tip 1: Change your mains plug fuses at least once a year

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Andrew, just wondering...but when are you going to publish Tip 2.

Watch out Paul, Your 1000th post is just round the corner! Dev

ps. see you at the show.

I just know that Paul's 1000th post will be truly memorable. . .

Alex

I'm sure Paul has got a belter for his 1000th post - it's got to be an improvement on your amazingly original 2000th post ('errrm, get more M...')

Dev

I'm already working on my 3000th post. Paul has a rather important company to run so he is lagging a bit. . .

Alex

You not only endorse Naim products, you do so unfailingly. You have admitted in another thread that you have not heard many competitors to Naim at similar price levels, so you have no fair basis for comparison of "value for money".

Your endorsement of the product is not also restricted to just liking them or appreciating their build quality and service back up, but also anything they say and the prices they charge.

It is for that reason why I comment that you would have said the Nap 500 would be value for money if they had charged £25,000 for it.

I have not seen comments from you say comparing Nap 500 to other hi end amplifiers and commenting on what is better about the naim product that justifies the price differentials.

You make comments without sufficient supporting opinion from yourself.

I am also quite sure that if Naim release a new top of the range CD player that you will also say that it is value for money irrespective of what price they charge for it. If you believe (after hearing all the competition) that in the current market the CDSII is the best CD player in the world, then Naim introduce a better sounding CD player, then on what basis and criterium will you use before you comment that it is value for money?

My opinion is that despite your job, you do not really understand the term "value for money"

My comments are not just limited however about value for money but extend to other matters as well. For example, you purchased a Hutter stand and used as an argument, that Naim use Hutter (before Fraim) and naim know best, hence you got Hutter. What howevever you didn't seek to do is realise that Naim did not use Hutter because they claimed it was the best for their product (before fraim) but because of a combination of its quality and how easy it was to assemble and dissasemble given all the movement by Naim of their kit to shows etc. Given that most users (i assume) do not move their kit about anywhere near as much as Naim do, then a less easy to assemble stand may be more appropriate as that quality is not an important criteria.

You have made close to 2000 posts on this forum. most people on this forum (including myself) are very enthusiastic about Naim products. However many posters do not just blindly accept anything that comes out of the marketing literature of Naim's brochures. I would not count you as one of the second type.

naim must love you - Some people are born to be a customer!

Regards

Belsizepark

Belsizepark, what the problem, Mick loves naim and chooses to endorse it, its nothing to get upset about.

I have heard extensively the nap500, if I could afford one I probably wouldn't even bother listening to the compitation why should I, I love the 500.

I fail to see how it couldn't control even the most demanding home speaker. I suppose if your preference isn't home speakers then you makes your choice.

I live in the home so prefer home speakers, I want a NAP 500

Can't afford one so its all moot anyway.

...for a while, and reading this thread (and a few others ) with "fresh" eyes, the thing I am struck by is Naim's ability to earn devotion.

After a certain about of experience with a company - its products, service, some insight to the company's philosophy - customer's seem to "cross over" and have faith in what the company does. They will buy without feeling the need to compare at the price point and they will be very comfortable doing so.

I think Mick, for example, is an astute man and a man of fine taste. That someone of his means and discerning nature can be "won over" by Naim is a very impressive statement for Naim. And Naim deserves it.

I had a bad go round with some of the kit, but, honestly, its hard to stay away. I'm just not comforatble with kit from other manufacturers.

Naim *is* a wonderful company and I hope they continue to succeed through these tough times.

- GregB
I don't read my posts so why should you

It is not a question of endorsing Naim products, however when the phrase "value for money" is used, then there must be a reasonable basis for comparison.

It is my opinion, that by and large that there is no such thing as a bad cd player, only a bad price. For example xyz cd player that retails at £1000 I may think a poor purchase, but if it retailed at £100, I might advise someone looking for a cd player in that price bracket to purchase it. Most working Cd players are in my mind value for money at a particular price, even if that price is only £20. As an alternative a great value cd player at £1000 may well not look so great at £2000.

I spend most of my working day, looking at the value of stocks, bonds and currencies around the world. There are many stocks that I would not purchase at current pricess, however if ceteris paribus, the price dropped 20%, I may well purchase. That decision has been arrived out by comparing the price to various factors about the fundmanetals of the company in question and also its global competitors.

I am sure that even though I have not heard the Nap 500, that I may well be in awe of the sound it can produce. I may well also desire the said product, that is however completely different to talking about its value for money, irrespective of whether or not I can afford it.

Mick Parry seems not to be able to spot the distinction between liking something and value for money

Regards

Belsizepark