NAC552 in HI-FI+

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the PSU is typically Naim – three terminal reg’s as far as the eye can see

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Are you telling me that Paul S was being disingenous when he told me that the 552's PSU 'Was not a box of 317's'?

LM317, LM337, 3-terminal reg. what's the difference...

Keep on the beer, nice to hear from you.

A.

[This message was edited by Andrew L. Weekes on TUESDAY 10 September 2002 at 11:27.]

"Naim designed the 5 series and then used the same buttons on their 12K preamp!"

Totally different, the 552 is not a keymat and the buttons are turned from solid, take a holiday, I think you need one.

your 52 will be finished today, sorry for the delay.

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What is 'musicality'?

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Ahhhh... you know it when you hear it

Seriously, though, Musicality is that rare thing which is blindingly obvious when you experience it but defies us to 'pin it down'. This is why it's so rare to find, as if it can't be adequately described or measured, it is difficult to ontologically define it as a prognosis for design and development.

In my mind (as applied to musical reproduction through hifi), it's the cohesive and seamless illusion of musical performance from the various constituent characteristics of sound in the absence of the performers themselves.

Or, put it another way, it's that communication and intimacy that transcends talk of bass or imaging or timing or transparency or any of that nonsense.

Or...

Get my drift? If we could accurately define it we might be able to measure systems quantifiably as opposed to subjectively and then Naim and Dynavector and Shahinian and DNM and... would sell more hifi and Technics and Sony and Alba would sell less (as reviews would be meaningful) but in the absence of reliable measurement of the musicality of a system we are left to use our own ears and that's the key.

However, I'm sure once you sort out your system you'll discover what I mean by musicality, James...



(will be in Glasgow on Wednesday - you around in the afternoon?)

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

I was sure all those buttons were turned from solid on the 5 series. .

Alex

I like my knobs...

Actually, how often do you use the front panel switches as opposed to the remote control?

A recent brush with the CD12 shows how elegant and useable a product without any visible knobs can be - rather cool, in a 'let's make it look like it's worth 12K' sort of a way. Looks like Linn had trouble spending all the alloted budget, if the flight case is anything to go by...

BTW, I love the picture in a recent brochure from Linn, showing a lovely array of precision CNC machined enclosures, being attacked by a man with a file

A.

and I thought we were going to turn this topic into a holiday guide.
Yours could be the old battersea power station, lots of mods needed there!!

...I hear 'ya about the "140 watt" thing, but I also remember my first Nait demo. "Only 20 watts???" or whatever the tiny black box was rated at.

At any rate, statements like:

"those bigger speakers are going to need more power if you want real grip, control, and authority."

are surely hypothetical, at least in the context of the thread. I've yet to read (in 7 pages of posts, no less) anyone say, "My 500 won't drive my speakers."

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

"and I thought we were going to turn this topic into a holiday guide."

Not trying to change the subject are you Paul

"Yours could be the old battersea power station, lots of mods needed there"

Bit old fashioned for me, some things are worth modifying, sometimes though it's just best to start somewhere else

Bankside Power Station is nice now though, if you like things a bit more modern...

A.

Mr Toon, WTF are you on about, onnly 140 watts!

Have you listened to the 500, have you listened to it extensively, are you really dribbling on about the figures?

The 500 IS expensive, but it IS fantastic, the most engaging and beautiful sound I have heard.

Its priced accordingly, not one single person here or anywhere in the world needs one to survive, but for those that can afford IMO it offers an excellent 140 watts for ones money.

Listen to track 6 from Fila Brazillia's Powerclown to be convinced.

.

put your ear to the ground and you'll hear a distant pounding, slowly getting closer...

Herman

I guess its like you with your kit, did you get special mana prices as you told me you would be working for them in February.

What am I talking about? Only reporting my experiences with the ATC50s that I have heard. I trust my ears, not the hype, and I wasn't impressed. Sure, perhaps had they been on Mana they'd have been much better, maybe making a silk purse out of a sow's ear, perhaps?

I'll hear James McP's 100s soon and am prepared to eat my words if I am wrong, but the '50s I have heard were awful.

Anyway, I won't comment on the 52 being the best preamp I have heard. Very good, no question, but I have heard better IMHO (DNM 3C Six) though I concede that the 52 is better than my own 3B Primus (82/SC level, approx.)

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

James.

Back in the office and I feel you need an explanation.

I have been using and LOVING naim gear for fourteen years.

Through fantastic good fortune I have been working with naim in the development of their new visual direction over the last few years. As observed on this and previous threads, it is not difficult to link via my name to the 'therefore' site.

I have always been very keen to avoid any thread or conversation where any degree of client confidentiality would in any way be compromised as I'm sure you can understand. That said I have always spoken my mind from exactly as I see it and have attempted to restrict my opinion to sound and performance issues, an area where I have zero sway and input with naim.

My system has costed an arm and a leg and has been put together based upon performance and nothing else. I choose naim now for the same reason I bought my62/110 a long time ago - ie IMO it gets me closer to the music than any other brand - period.

On top of this I have to say that the people in Salisbury are the nicest and most dedicated bunch I have come across in my working life.

"I thought you were an ordinary 'punter' like the rest of us here".

Well when it comes to hunting and buying music, saving for upgrades, anticipating new and better products, preaching about vinyl, arguing about tonearms with people via email who have much more in common with me than differences, boring the misses "Can you hear the improvement", f.....g about with the mains, looking for that elusive steely dan first edition US pressing and clearing away a pile of tunes one foot deep from the mammoth previous late night session......I am that ordinary punter.

Peace and Love

P.S - Ditch the ittok for an arrow, you won't regret it!!!!!!!!

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I'm not for a minute saying that this lady would have anything like Top Cats ear for music but her opinion must mean something.

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Touche! (I'm in notepad and can't find the appropriate accent, btw!)

That isn't the point. We're talking about ATCs as I have heard them - not James's system (which I have heard pre-ATC, and which I may even hear later today if he's around*)

In any case, I worked as an off-and-on jazz musician for a short while (money was crap, but it helped me pay through my education) though in fairness I haven't done much since. As a musician, I'd argue that my ability to enjoy music has increased only by virtue of being able to understand composition and form, and appreciate performance and intonation. This doesn't make me any better at assessing hifi than Joe Public who enjoys a tune, though, and suggesting otherwise, Paul, is a little bit naive.

Nonetheless, if James's system is as good as it's cracked up to be (post ATC) then I will freely announce it once I've heard it. It was a good sounding system before, with many virtues, and I'm as interested as any as to where the addition of the ATCs and removal of the 135s has taken the system. My worry is that perhaps what I enjoyed before has been lost, but I may be proved wrong yet. However, my comments re: ATC are based upon past experiences and I stand by them as being 'potentially' awful and harsh sounding speakers more remniscent of a Peavey or EV PA system than what I would call a musical hifi speaker.

James's system will be the opportunity I need to see if this judgement was flawed, though trying to imply that anyone's listening ability is any better or worse than anyone else's based upon whether they can perform a Rachmaninov or play cookin' bass just strikes me as the warblings of someone with a chip on their shoulder...

TC '..'

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Quote: Chances are that when you hear a modern recording through ATCs you are hearing what the band and engineer heard and aproved.

Just before they applied large amounts of compression so that the recording sounds acceptable on the small pair of near-field monitors on the desk which are almost always used to check the final sound. The small near-field monitors are to check that the recording will work on modern replay equipment. Modern replay equipment is a small all in one box system or a portable or a simple radio.

I thought PMC/Bryston outsold ATC?

I had hopes for you, but alas

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

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My beef is your arrogance at thinking that your own opinion matters to anyone other than yourself

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...and your point? We're all here to voice opinion, share ideas, collaborate, fuel enthusiasm, etc., for our shared interest. Of course I know my opinion doesn't really matter any more than yours does, that's the beauty of these forums. It is a great leveller, and where you get the arrogance thing from is beyond me - but then, perhaps you have your own twisted agenda.

I hope not, I see no reason for us to be anything other than civil to each other and accusing me of 'arrogance' for voicing an opinion amongst the myriad of opinions on this site is just daft, and I think most will agree. The only reason you call it 'arrogant' is because it differs from your own opinion, which is of course the law...

Peace, my friend...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

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Perhaps your not a very good drummer.

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Does that make me a musician then?

Good, we're getting somewhere now...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

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“..it was still well adrift of what I’d consider a high end performance…forward and dimensionally flat, with a distinct lack of transparency and focus.

…Further listening isolated the problem to a lack of deep bass extension and weight…

Investigation quickly revealed that the primary culprit was the NAP 500 power amp. Changing to the similarly priced Hovland Sapphire…brought instant benefits”
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Yes this was an interesting Comment. I have heard a 500 (in an all Naim system) and it was stunning, but I have'nt heard many similar priced alternatives so cannot comment on this.

As far as ATC goes I have heard their stuff (can't remember which model) and was underwhelmed to say the least.

A professional monitor! This just means they have to pay people to listen to it, say's it all really!!

RG is very spherical and glows orange. . .

Alex

Anyone have a pair of Yamaha NS 10s for sale?

Seriously, not many here think that B&W 801s are the best speakers around, but you'll find them in plenty of studios. So if you want to hear what the engineers heard...

Your typical engineer uses his monitors as tools which are intended to a)highlight any mistakes that would embarass him or the client (bad edits, audible clicks or hum, that type of thing) and b)help him hear through so that he can create a sound that will sound good on a car stereo, boom box, rack system, or nice hi-fi.

--Eric

"So, neutrality, speed and transparency would be good attributes for a monitor to have, and these attributes aren't desirable in the home setting?"

Of course they are. But when these are the adjectives chosen to describe a speaker there is a good chance that more musically relevant adjectives may not apply.

My ProAcs are great as monitors. They are very revealing and neutral compared to many speakers out there. But they don't groove. Not on the end of Naim, not on the end of AR, nothing. They're sterile, baby, sterile. I've heard several speakers now for 1/2 the price that kill them on musical grounds.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here