NAC552 in HI-FI+

"I repeat, the Naim guys know all about active ATC 100s, having heard them in action at shows. So far, they've been careful to not say anything negative about them. And that's because they know what I know."

...they have manners

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Roy makes an interesting comment about the 552:-

quote:

---

... but it's losing something in the process. This presentation is all about progress: all about starting rather than stopping. Breaks in the musical flow seem hurried, as if the system can't wait to get on with it. ... I occaisionally found myself wishing that it would allow the musicians (and their notes) a little more space to breathe.

---

I have heard this from systems as varied as NAIT2 & 52. It sounds staccato. Each note chops off early.

I suspect either that the source used wasn't earthing the system properly, or more likely that the 552PS or a steel-cased CD player or amp was too close to the preamp (probably on the shelf below).

cheers, Martin

quote:

---

I tried to read the thread gave up, what a load of COCK HEADS you are?

Steve King

---

But you thought we'd all benefit from your highly constructive contribution to it nonetheless.

Regards,

Steve.

One of the best threads on this forum for some considerable time

James,

Roy's brief was to try the 552 with non-Naim components.

There have been recent threads which have resurrected the discussion that Linn CD players do not earth Naim amps, and this causes a major degradation to the sound.

I had some misgivings about making the above post, because I knew it would attract some sarcastic response.

Still, the point seemed worth making.

Sorry if it offended you in any way.

cheers, Martin

"...the source used wasn't earthing the system properly, or more likely that the 552PS or a steel-cased CD player or amp was too close to the preamp"

...that's outlandish.

How rude. Sounds like a direct slam against ATC and all of Naim's other competitors to me

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

quote:

---

And don't they always give good reviews?

---

They only print reviews about products they like. The bad stuff doesn't make it into print, a policy that I personally like.
John[/QUOTE]

John,

If you read the music review of 'The Persuasions' called "Sing The Beatles" RG gives it 0/10 on page 131.. lol! ..but I suppose this is the exception to the rule (and isn't a product).

John
Shore

Hi folks. Last night I finally had my chance to hear what the ATC-on-Mana fuss is all about, over a couple of bottles of nice wine, some cracking sounds and a mid-session phone call from our very own Marco (Stallion) and it was great to finally speak to him too.

Anyway, So, here goes.

The system:

Sources:
LP12/Ittok/Troika/Lingo
CDS2/XPS

Amps
52/SC

Speakers
ATC 100s with active built in amps

Rest
Mana, a modest but significant amount (4/4/3 IIRC).

ANyway, I understand what James likes about this system. Whilst there was little really wrong with the 135/Epos combination, the ATCs add a sense of scale and a depth of bass which the 135/Epos system couldn't match. Bass was very punchy and quite fast for a big speaker, which is no mean feat, active or not. The midrange of the ATC system is very natural and detailed, and displayed little 'PA-like' harsh qualities, such as I'd heard on previous ATC systems (without Mana). The midrange was the most impressive facet of the sound, being very clear (rivalling many smaller speakers) and with an admirable speed and 'ease' about it.

I was impressed, though unlike James I don't think that the difference between his 'before' and his 'after' systems is as massive as he says, though it is significant and a highly positive step. The system has impressive scale, almost effortless control of significantly deep and well defined bass. Cracking stuff.

At this point I have to add that though I thoroughly enjoyed the system it isn't the sound I'm after. It's difficult to compare a CDS2/XPS/52/SC/ATC 100s to my own Opus 21/3BP/PA3^S/Neats due to the fact that so many variables are in place, but hearing James's system in a way reassured me that I am going down the path best suited to my own tastes. Unlike James, I will never have the depth of bass (unless I use my REL ) or the sheer ability to generate PA-like volumes, but these things aren't really that important to me. WHat impressed me about James's system ultimately was a degree of similarity in its ease and coherence and (apologies, James ) musicality which both systems have. Once I move James will have the opportunity to hear where I'm coming from and that will be interesting too - but I think he'll know exactly what I'm talking about when I talk of 'commonality' - i.e. communication, emotion, coherence and (ahem) musicality...

So, a great evening with great sounds and only tarnished by the lack of a decent chippy on the way back to Havelock street...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

James

You say you love love ATC's, but you also love plucking peoples livers out.........somewhat casts a doubt over your personal taste.

Regards

Mick........happy with 135's and Briks.

quote:

---

Just out of curiousity, what system has come closest to delivering all the goods for you?

---

This is going to sound a bit odd, but in all honesty it's my system (in its current form), i.e. Opus 21/DNM 3B Primus/DNM PA3^S/Neat Petite/Gravitas on QS Ref with Mana stands under the Neats and Nordost SPM cabling.

Sure, the PA3^S limits the absolute volume, but in terms of sheer involvement and enjoyment, I've not heard much in the same league as what I am delighted to own now. James's ATC system is different and an entirely wonderful system in its own right, but I wouldn't change mine for his in honesty, though it redefines what I thought could be achieved with ATC speakers.

Of course, everyone here will disagree (having possibly only heard the ATC system but not mine) but I'm answering this 'for me' and not for the majority - after all, if I agreed with 'the majority' here I'd have a 52/135s and a CDSII - and I could have had all of those but for choosing alternatives...

After I move into the new house, anyone who cares to visit would be made more than welcome to sample some fine sounds, wine from the cellar and even some of my mean bean chili...!!!

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

"I think the ATCs will do *anything* asked of them."

yes if you put the drivers into a naim speaker. Not surprised you are shocked at the difference between epos and atc.

quote:

---

On the subject of Naim speakers, where did you get the midrange drivers from?

---

They are made in house, by Naim.

ps. James you do love your ATC's don't you! I have heard 'your' pair at Pinner a while ago and they are good but I do like DBL's better (I get to hear Jawed's quite regulary)

Interesting comment, Dev. Thing is, James has achieved a very interesting sound which has so much going for it, though if I achieved that sound in my living room I'd feel I'd deviated from my own goals. I don't think there's a best, only our own goals.

Epistemological auditory nirvana, methinks.

Interesting point about using my source and preamp with the ATCs, though I suspect that what I didn't find revelatory about James's system is more to do with the ATC speakers than the LP12/52 we listened with ... remember that I really like the 52... don't care for much else in the lower- Naim preamps, but the 52 is very good indeed...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

quote:

---

Are you sure?

---

Pretty much, although I am sure someone is about to correct me.

quote:

---

I've got the best that I've ever heard. Not necessarily 'the best', but 'my best'.

---

I am delighted for you. I really am. Now shut up.

quote:

---

PS Dev, are you related to a certain Mr King in any way?

---

Don't know what you are talking about.

quote:

---

PPS I don't like DBLs.

---

Have you heard them? When? With what? Or are you talking from hearsay?

regards,

Dev

ps. I get to hear DBL's pretty regularly and if I had the space and more money I would get them tomorrow.

"Not surprised you are way off, given the noises your speakers produce."

mm from an epos owner! ha ha you take the biscuit.

ATC 100A = Tinnitus

ha ha ha!

"the Epos 22s trashed the Credos"
A simple exercise you can try at home, put your hand over your mouth and sing the first line of "SINGING IN THE RAIN", now take your hand away and do it again, there you just re-did the epos credo dem.

Your view, work that out!

"Alan Boyd @ L&C Glasgow)" surely not he is a man of excellent taste, I am sure he was just agreeing with you. The customer is always right story.
Customer feedback, thank you so much, repeat the excerise as prescribed above.......
perhaps now after your atc speakers you go back and try again the results may be different after your discovery of dynamics

James,

I think we've all gathered that you like your ATCs. Any chance that you can leave it at that?

David

ok James, thanks for the fun, got to go and do some work.

Dev,

I had the pleasure of hearing those DBLs last summer (Jawed was a very kind host, please give my regards to him).

Thought they were too far apart, but he said he'd tried everything and was happy with the way it is (not sure about his setup either when comparing my sound with his, but it was over a year ago).

I have limited experience of speakers, but I found (with the ones I like, particularly the SBLs) that you lose rhythm from the lower registers when the speakers are too far apart. Move them together, and things will not sound as 'pretty' at first, but the gains in musicality are considerable (sounds more like the sound you get on stage as opposed to the PA, simply better bass/kick interplay and stuff like that).

Thomas

Hi Paul (D),

I've no experience with ATCs and I really don't want to join in the "who's better" match here, but please remember that to a certain extent, the recording quality can be independent of the type of speakers used by the engineers.

If you set up a good mike properly, and the playing is tight, and you don't process the signal too much (now that really does need to be monitored), you will get a good performance on tape, sometimes even if no one's listening, and sometimes even if those who are listening behind the desk are completely toasted out of their heads.

I reckon the timing is largely unaffected by the sound the engineers get through their monitors (not so with the tonality).

Thomas

quote:

---

A simple exercise you can try at home, put your hand over your mouth and sing the first line of "SINGING IN THE RAIN", now take your hand away and do it again, there you just re-did the epos credo dem.

---

Paul, a nice analogy for Epos loudspeakers. Thank God Exposure saw sense and ditched them for Vandersteens.

Funnily enough, I've heard ATCs on a couple of occasions and the word "muffled" springs to mind too. Perhaps James requires Mana to act as a "sticking plaster".

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

Nope, I've found nirvana and you're still looking.

Let me know when you get your system to time correctly... if you can tell...

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

"SBLs to be ear-achingly "bright", "thin" "recessed" and "no-bassy"."

thats because a, you have have never heard them set up correctly.

quote:

---

Well, I don't know what you guys are hearing, mind you I find for instance SBLs to be ear-achingly "bright", "thin" "recessed" and "no-bassy".

---

James my boy,

I can only conclude that you are deaf to arrive at this conclusion. If want to hear SBL's as you describe don't come to mine - otherwise I look forward to educating you when you are next in London

regards, Dev

ps. I am forming a view that most of your audio opinions are based on hearsay as opposed to real experience or facts (‘I don’t like DBL’s, SBL’s drivers by Ruark, etc). Tell me it isn’t true James?