naim dvd player - wait or not ?

julian62/135 ...I am a little strange as I guess most of us must be. Having said that it turns out that your questions was excellent and I have learned a great deal, so thank you for asking it.

CDSII, 52, 135's Fraim, and SF Electa Amator II's

About three years ago I lashed out on a TagMcLaren DVD32R deck. (It's got no onboard DAC) I've got a socking great big projector & screen 7 ft across.

From the quality of manufacture, to the picture & sound quality, it's just superb. I'll confess I didn't audition any other players before buying, but since installing the Tag I've rigged up a few other "Mainstream" players, and the Tag's image quality is clearly better on the large screen. Although I'm a vinyl-type guy, the sound has really impressed me on CD.

Is it worth £4K+? Well, it's probably not worth quite that much, but how do you put a price on this level of quality?

FYI:

DVI and HDMI are compatable with each other as a video format. But HDMI is capable of carrying audio too.

So as long as the DVD5 has one it should be ok. As for a digital audio out - as long as the audio decoder is good quality (which it should be) it is not really necessary. With high quality analogue audio outs and an AV2 it should be up there with the best.

My guess is the DVD will be the dogs wotsits on sound (I hope a decode to 5ch+ is an option as in many cases the AV2 will do the decode).

It will be OK on video BUT will have an interface to the AV-Switcher that will decode to the format you need (CRT, plasma, projector etc) So just a guess the DVD + Video Switcher/Reprocessor will be say 2k + 2k.

To be honest, as Naim are new to video it's an unknown area. Happy to get an AV2 but for the video/DVD/Scaling maybe a Home Theatre PC is a better bet. On the other hand how do you link one of those to your Naim system without poluting the mains <grrrr>

Oh and if the DVD is not multiregion.......well after living in the USA for a year and I purchased a DVD player there (left as I don't want a $100 DVD player) and a pile of region 1 DVDs then I assume as I purchased the DVDs I have a licence to view the software so when I can't they will replace it for free.....or should I look at DVDDecryptor!

Yuck.
I think Naim is gonna be in for a world of hurt.

It seems to me that the DVD standard hasn't even gelled yet... Will it playback DVD-RW/DVD-R/DVD+R/DVD+RW/DVD-ROM? What about future media formats? Dual layer, triple layer, etc? Will it playback MP3's? How about WMA's? Will it accomodate HD-DVD when that format is released, or will you have to purchase the next model up? Will they offer firmware/hardware updates? How often?

In my humble opinion, I think they should stick to what they know best... audio.

quote:

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In my humble opinion, I think they should stick to what they know best... audio.

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With audio moving into the realms of multi-channel should Naim deny themselves of this? Yes some people are not a fan - some people are - it always happens with new formats - but it is definitly happening and it should not be ignored.

Naim have already proved they are fully capable of entering the AV market with the AV2 - which is up there with the best processors and imho is the best one for multichannel audio when used with with a machine such as the denon 2900. It's just a shame a denon has to be the source.

I know alot of people are looking for the perfect silver disc source and if the dvd5 is going to sound like a cd5 and play dvd/sacd/dvd-a as good as its competitors they may have done it.

If it doesn't my (and other peoples) search will have to continue.

David R... it is all very interesting isn't it. I haven't really looked at home cinema yet. I have only just bought my first home, (in London, everything they say about the prices is true only worse, makes a 552 seem affordable ) there is a lot of remodelling, as he Americans call it, to do. So the hi fi is a difficult to afford treat really and the AV system a distant dream.

Having read the thread i think I’m glad I’m not in the home cinema market this year. I will continue to use the PS2 for DVD play back on my 15 year old 21" Trinitron CRT.

I was just glad to get things started, your second reply appreciated - i am strangely humbled

Julian

now 82/135's

"In my humble opinion, I think they should stick to what they know best... audio."

Yannzola, We love our music here and can see that Naim will focus for many years to come on products which are needed for people who have the same desire for music in their homes as we do. As more of our competitors move away from 2 channel we are more than happy to keep investing in this direction its still a huge cake.
We feel we have to keep in touch with new technolgies and the dvd part is just another discsipline we need to learn, our product which you will see soon already pushes the others on the market at this price and many well above.
Any new product sector must always satisfy Naim's criteria for engineering performance.

Is the dvd project hard going, absolutely!! have we had some sleepless nights, yes sir!!

It will appeal to those who value high quality movie repro at home and those who wish a 1 stop music/av solution, I can see we will develop several Av solutions to run along side our 2 channel core business.

[This message was edited by Paul Stephenson on WEDNESDAY 28 January 2004 at 12:03.]

Last on multiregion....

Interested in Stuarts idea of changing my US DVD's into region code 2's, the answer in the shop was: NO WAY....

So this is ruled out...

Regards
-mb

Just to point out all though very existing if anyones seen the quality of hdmi dvi pitures this opens a new can of worms with hdcp (high defination copy projection) my friends and i have been trying out different dicks etc on different displays with all sorts of problems.The Machines we own are pioneer 668 and 868 hdmi but hdmi/dvi hdcp must comunicate with display ie old plama/ projector / monitor problems.
IT WOULD BE A FEATHER IN NAIMS ALREADY BIRD LIKE CAP IF HDCP COULD BE DISABLED AS THIS WOULD BLOW PROGRESSIVE SCAN ABLED JAP PLAYERS OUT OF THE WATER.
Maybe richard could brief us on naims dvi output regards red.

I doubt that Naim would be allowed to disable HDCP on any digital video output. This would contravene DVD-Forum rules and Naim would be refused a license to manufacture DVD replay equipment.

On the DVI/HDMI issue, I would hope Naim decide on HDMI. HDMI is backward compatible with DVI but DVI is not forward compatible with HDMI. Therefore if the DVD5 had a HDMI output it could be connected to a display device with HDMI or DVI inputs. Whereas if the the DVD5 was DVI it would be limited to DVI displays only.

Allan

allan i did not say naim should disable hdcp but it would be nice if naim made the player so it could like say multi region coding or macrovision. As with the hdmi\dvi issue the players we are using are hdmi and are not compatible with older generation displays we have tried unless they are hdcp compatible as there as been no agreement with dvi yet the only displays i am a where of are the new pioneer plasmas which have hdmi hdcp inputs.i have av2/nap system so would not use the extra sound cabability of hdmi so from naims prospective there are no avantages to using hdmi over dvi at least with dvi we can keep thoose nasty video signals separate. regards red.

Hi Red,

True, for HDMI-->DVI to work the DVI device has to be HDCP compatible. What display devices were you using ? I'm only familiar with the projector world where just about all current projectors with a DVI input have HDCP. My projector does, so if the DVD5 had HDMI I'd be okay. If my next projector had HDMI...I'd still be okay.

The advantage for Naim in going the HDMI route is that this is the way the A/V world is heading. Having said that, of course, when has Naim ever used a standard connector when a better one is available

Allan

[This message was edited by Allan Probin on SUNDAY 01 February 2004 at 18:19.]

Thanks for the reply allan, have you tried a device like a dvd player that outputs hdcp on your projector (dvi) and did it work ok if so what did you use and what where the results.i have read that people with projectors are having same problems but as i am not lucky enough to own one yet i value your experience although any one else reading these posts please check even demo if possible for dvi compatability. the dvi screens we have used are dream vision plasma and lcd monitors regards red.

Hi Red,

I havn't yet had the opportunity to try one of the new HDMI DVD players with my projector (NEC HT1100) but from what I've read of other peoples experience, the Pioneer 868 works fine into Marantz S3 and SIM2 HT300-link. Rumour has it that the entire SIM2 line will be updated in a couple of months with "i" models to denote HDMI input.

I'm currently getting my pure-digital-video fix from a Home Cinema PC - TheaterTek software DVD player out to the PJ using a DVI graphics card. Stunning picture and I'm fully convinced of the benefits of an all-digital path to a purely digital display device. However, if I was to contemplate a DVD player with digital video out, HDMI and future compatibility would be on my wish list.

Allan

Just to clarify a few things, the following is the content of e-mails I have sent out today to those who asked us directly on the issue of HDCP:

Our DVI video output has HDCP content protection ALWAYS enabled. As a licensed manufacturer we are obliged to conform to this protection standard we would lose our license if we were to disable it. We have locked this functionality into our hardware so it is also a technical impossibility to remove it.

DVI with HDCP only has compatibility problems if the user wishes to connect to a display device which does not support HDCP (i.e. computer monitors or older DVI enabled display devices - plasmas etc). Unfortunately this is how it has to be! To use the DVD5 with displays of this type the BNC (RGB / RGBHV / YPbPr) output should be used as this is the next 'highest quality' ouput format the player supports. The DVD5 also has a SCART and S-Video output.

- Almost all new display devices that support a digital video input (DVI or HDMI) use HDCP content protection.
- DVI with HDCP can be connected to an HDMI display with the appropriate adaptor cable.
- There is no difference in video quality between HDMI and DVI (HDMI also carries audio and control information but the video signal is identical)

Richard

Richard,

Thanks for clarifying that. I was aware that HDMI-->DVI(with HDCP) was possible with the appropriate cable but didn't realise that DVI-->HDMI was also a valid configuration. Jeez, you just can't trust anything you read on the internet !

Allan

Richard,

That means DVD5 supports all three format of analogue output (RGB, RGBHV & YPbPr). What is the maximum resolution of the progressive scan output via these analogue BNC output? Which de-interlacing/scaling chip you use for progressive scan? Finally, DVD5 is a transport only or full decoding capable player.

Thanks.

David

Richard,

will there be 5 BNC sockets for connecting RGBHV?

Thomas

David,

resolution of progressive scan output in PAL is 480 lines and in NTSC 525 lines. The player uses a Faroudja DCDi engine. The player can be ordered either with downmixed 2 channel analog output as standard or with a very high quality multichannel analog output as an option.

Thomas,

yes, RGBHV necessitates the use of 5 BNC sockets.

Richard

Richard,

Thanks for your reply. What about the max. resolution via HDMI(DVI)output? Which Faroudja chip you use (FL2200 with scaling capability)? Are you able to reveal which DVD transport you use(Pioneer, Phillip etc)? Which DVD player benchmark you ues to compare with DVD5 in term of progressive scan picture quality? Which one will give better sound quality between DVD5+AV2 and DVD5 w/multichannel output option?

If the max. resolution via HDMI is 720p or 1080i. Is there anyway we can get the same resolution via RGBHV?

Thanks.

David

Richard,

thanks for your quick reply.
I am very happy because of the 5 BNC sockets which i can use with my CRT projector - there are not so many DVD-Players with this option.
Like David i also want to know if there are higher resolutions possible via this output.

Thomas

>>resolution of progressive scan output in PAL is 480 lines and in NTSC 525 lines

Richard,

Sorry to be picky, but surely these should be 576 and 480 lines respectively?

Kevin

quote:

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Originally posted by keV:
>>resolution of progressive scan output in PAL is 480 lines and in NTSC 525 lines

Richard,

Sorry to be picky, but surely these should be 576 and 480 lines respectively?

Kevin

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Kevin,

please pick away - you are right - in my haste I got them the wrong way round - it should read PAL 525 lines, NTSC 480 lines.

David et al..,

sorry guys, that's as much as I am allowed to say at the moment. As for benchmarks, we've had a few and, yes, so far ours is better....

Richard

The question of which DVD player to go for really relates to whether you want the sound decoding to be done within the DVD player or within a seperate surround sound processor.

I have a 82,Hi-Cap *2, 250, SBL's, old NAP 140 to drive the rear speakers, set up with a Yamaha Processor in the middle.

As such, when my old DVD player finally met its maker I only needed a machine that gave good pictures as everything else was done off-board. That meant a c£250 Pioneer.

At some stage I plan to upgrade the Yamaha to a TAG McClaren or of course a NAIM AV processor.

So, a £2,000 DVD is only of use if I want to junk the Surround Processor altogether and keep it all in the family. Mind you, if I do that, what do I do about keeping surround sound for SKY, how do I drive the centre speaker, etc?

Guys/ gals, IMHO, you need a DVD player to give good pictures and a good digital sound feed, something you can get for less than £400.

You then need the best central sound processor you can afford.

Regards

Tim