Do I Like Italian Opera?
Posted by: Todd A on 08 December 2003
For a long time I resisted Italian opera. Too melodramatic for my tastes, you see. Plus I don’t really like the Italian singing style. I tried a number of the major works and only found Falstaff to be an opera I want to hear again and again. Some Bellini struck me as good enough to buy, too, but that’s it. Never one to give up, I decided to push ahead, to try at least a few more. Guess what: I found some Italian opera that I like. And it all comes from one person: Rossini. Of all composers, I was sure his was the music I would like the least. All those comic operas, all of those weak plots. But I do like them! In fact, I love them.
Thus far I have heard and bought The Barber of Seville, and I have heard Le Cenerentola (under Chailly, to boot!) and Il Viaggio a Reims. Masterpieces all! Thoroughly enjoyable, light, witty, and charming music, coupled with librettos that are not Puccini-stupid made a believer out of me.
Of the three, The Barber is my favorite. I own the Gianluigi Gelmetti recording with Thomas Hampson as a suave Figaro and Susanne Mentzer* as a delightful Rosina, and I find it quite a fun listen, but surely there are other versions to consider? If so, please let me know what to get. (I have a sneaking suspicion that either or both of Abbado’s commercial recordings might be worth having.) As for Le Cenerentola, the Chailly recording really exceeded my expectations, mostly because I am not a Chailly fan. Cecilia Bartoli is fabulous in the lead, and the supporting cast all sound fine and the orchestra plays splendidly. I’m planning on buying this set unless there is something better out there. As for Il Viaggio, has anyone other than Abbado even recorded this piece? I heard the live DG set, which I liked immensely, and since Abbado’s Sony set does not appear to be available, it may be the only way to go.
Beyond these, I did try Boynange’s recording of Guillame Tell, but found the piece a bit too sprawling and unfocused, but perhaps it has been redeemed by someone else? I know Rossini wrote other operas, so other suggestions are welcome.
For anyone out there tempted to say “I told you so!” take heed: I’ve tried more Italian dramatic operas and simply don’t like ‘em. If I don’t like Verdi’s tragedies, ain’t nothin’ going to convince me. For comedies, though, at least two Italians could do ‘em right.
* I bought Riccardo Muti’s recording of Don Giovanni at the same time, and Mentzer does a fine Zerlina – indeed, her performances was one of the things I enjoyed most. BTW, I prefer Muti to Giulini in this; indeed, I now enjoy Don Giovanni as much as any other Mozart opera.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Posted on: 08 December 2003 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman:
Todd, you are full of surprises. Rossini! Just about the last composer I would have expected you to like
I know, I'm surprised, too.
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman:
You've tried Otello (Toscanini or Kleiber), Un Ballo in Maschera (Abbado, Solti or Votto) and Don Carlo (Giulini, Muti or Gergiev)?
I've tried Otello and Un Ballo in Maschera, but not Don Carlo, though I've not tried the recordings you mention.
When you mention Kleiber for Otello, is that Erich or Carlos? I can get a Carlos-led Otello from 1975 (at La Scala, I believe). It piqued my interest, though I opted to buy his 1978 La Scala Tristan first. (It's in the mail.) I usually find Toscanini's recordings too harsh to enjoy much, but I may have to give in (as I will definitely have to do when his 1937 Meistersinger finally shows up). Before I drop any cash, I'll head to the local library to see if they have any of the above recordings. I've just found Verdi not to my liking yet.
As to Giulini's
Don Giovanni,well, I'll give it another try after the holidays, but I found Muti's more engaging. It has been over a year since I heard Giulini's though.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius,
MeditationsPosted on: 09 December 2003 by Phil Barry
What? You dislike Puccini, too? Well, Todd, I can say only that it takes all kinds. For Turandot, Nilsson (sp?) with Corelli or Bjoerling should satisfy. I prefer Bjoerling on record, but a Nilsson/Corelli performance at the Met in 1962 was one of my top 5 musical experiences.
I'm confused by your mention of Mozart. Do you consider the da Ponte operas to be German, or Italian, or without boundaries? If you consider them Italian, I like Klemperer for both Don and Flute, Bohm and Solti for Flute. In fact, although I am not a fan of the Flute story, every recording I've heard has offered a lot of enjoyment.
Erich Kleiber is incomparable (good) for Marriage of Figaro - available on mid-price now. I don't want to brag (!), but I picked up a mint mono of the LPs, with score, for about $2 a couple of years ago. WOW!
Regards,
Phil
Posted on: 09 December 2003 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Barry:
What? You dislike Puccini, too?
I strongly dislike his operas, yes.
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Barry:
Do you consider the da Ponte operas to be German, or Italian, or without boundaries?
I consider them
Mozart operas. They transcend stylistic limitations.
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Barry:
Erich Kleiber...I don't want to brag (!), but I picked up a mint mono of the LPs, with score, for about $2 a couple of years ago. WOW!
Shut up.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius,
MeditationsPosted on: 09 December 2003 by throbnorth
No comment [well, plenty of comment actually, but I think I need a lie down first]. Herm, shall we take turns with the mutual cold compresses?
Todd, if you really like That Sort Of Thing, then I suppose you should have a look at Il Turco In Italia, and maybe as a sideways leap L'Elisir D'Amore. The latter is Donizetti, of course, and that bodes ill for someone allegic to illogical death in the 'mountains of Liverpool' and other such places should the bug take hold, but it does have undeniably stonking tunes.
Italian Comic Opera. Oh, how we laughed...... [not]
throb
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by herm
Uh oh... Perhaps one or two cases of Xmas hangover?
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by Todd A
Ross, if you want to get RdS going, just mention that Bach's keyboard works definitely sound better on a modern grand piano than on a tinkly old harpsichord, irrespective of what so-called experts say.
Back to the topic: I just finished Carlos Kleiber’s 1976 recording of Otello, and must write that I am more impressed with it now than before. (And I must also complain: it was $24, not $20. Damn misread labels!) The version I had listened to previously was James Levine’s 1978 recording, which also had Domingo in the lead. Domingo is magnificent in this role; indeed, should I ever bother with another tenor playing the part? The singing is incredible and the conducting amazing. There are a few points where I suppose I could have asked for better playing (and I could definitely have used better sound), but overall, this is a great set. I may even end up buying other versions, Toscanini’s first and foremost. (And if the remastered sound is as good as for the newest re-re-re-re-reissue of his Beethoven symphonies, I’ll be able to live with the sound just fine.)
I must confess that I still find the Germans better. There is something about Wagner, Strauss, and Berg that keeps them at the core of the operatic repertoire for me. And Mozart, well, Mozart’s operas are perfect.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by jpk73
I will try to explain...
Verdi: Try Aida. If you listen carefully you will find that there is absolutely no superfluous note. You will have to listen to it a couple of times, but then you will understand what it's about Verdi. I promise. When I started to play Verdi, I didn't understand at all, but now I love Aida, Otello, Falstaff, Carlo, Boccanegra and others.
Puccini: I love Boheme and Butterfly. You should experience a good live performance with a nice staging. Puccini wrote his music so that it will really move you - if you let his music come to your heart.
Mozart: Giovanni or Magic Flute. Listen to it egain and again, it will always tell you something new. Read the libretto. Look at his Finales, e.g. in Figaro at the end of the Opera: it's such a fresh feeling after all these pieces! Or Magic Flute: every piece is more beautiful than the preceding, and the end is just fulfillment.
Wagner: Walküre, Tristan or Holländer or or or. There is so much! Listen to the beautiful tunes in Holländer or to the picturesque sound effects! The story of Tristan and Isolde... OK, just give it a try! You will never regret it.
Carmen, L'Elisir D'Amore, Cavalleria Rusticana, Rosenkavalier, Ariadne, Frau ohne Schatten, Salome, etc etc etc etc...
Have fun!! But please don't hate Verdi.
- Jun
[This message was edited by Jun Keller on SATURDAY 27 December 2003 at 23:43.]
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman:
Although I am a little amused to see that Strauss is now at "the core of the operatic repertoire" for you, when not so long ago you had an RdS-like aversion for it - perhaps we will soon see Verdi moving towards that core.
The key word is operatic. I still strongly dislike his tone poems, especially
Also Spewed Zarathustra and
Don Juan. I have discovered that I like his Four Last Songs, though. (Damnit, did he have to be such a good orchestrator?)
RdS, why continue to harp on Wagner's amusical side? He was a scumbag, we all know it. He's only of any use for his music. If I were to avoid every scuzzy German classical music figure, my collection would be much smaller. There'd be no Strauss, and no recordings by Bohm, Karajan, Backhaus, Gieseking, and a number of others. What a sad musical life that would be. And at the risk of having this thread go wildly off-track, Wagner should not be associated with Hitler and Nazism. The Nazis tried to use him as an example of aryan supremacy, and he was certainly anti-Semitic enough to warm the black little hearts of the Nazis, but he was not a Nazi; thankfully he died much too early to join the party.
But, if you do try to listen to Verdi, try
Falstaff first. It’s my favorite work by him after his Requiem.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius,
MeditationsPosted on: 27 December 2003 by jpk73
Verdi - which I can't swallow
Are you talking about Traviata...? Well, try an Opera you don't know. I recommend Boccanegra.
BTW I still dislike many of his Operas: Ernani, Nabucco, Stiffelio, Rigoletto, Vespres Siciliennes. Also Traviata is for me quite boring to play... ;-)
- Jun
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by jpk73
Todd, I agree about Falstaff! Just fantastic in every regard. But when I first got to know Falstaff I didn't understand at all... I think it's indeed a little bit difficult to find a good Opera to start with if somebody is not familiar with Verdis music.
Requiem, Falstaff...!
It took much time for me to fall in love with Verdis Operas. But now it's true love.
- Jun
Posted on: 27 December 2003 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman:
Have you tried Tod und Verklarung or Metamorphosen? I suggest buying the Karajan CD with the Gundula Janowitz
I own this disc. It is how I discovered that I like the Four Last Songs. I was familiar with both Death & Transfiguration and Metamorphosen before (and I admit to liking Klemperer's recording of the latter) and I at least find these pieces tolerable. But if anyone tells me how good
Don Quixote is . . .
I'm on board about
La Traviata, and I've heard the Kleiber. It's something of a snoozer.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius,
MeditationsPosted on: 27 December 2003 by herm
Of course the best way would be to go to a live performance, second best would be just listening at home with the libretto. But you know all these things.
Plus I have recently discovered the medium of DVD, and, though it's not even halfway to the live experience, it can be better than sound only, representing the action as well.
Sorry for the misunderstanding earlier. I meant (tongue in cheek) that both you and Ross seemed to have a bit of a Xmas hangover, not necessarily of an alcoholic nature; that's why I said two (2). No big deal to me.
Herman
Posted on: 28 December 2003 by herm
As far as I can tell, the downside of DVD as it is now, is there is not that much choice yet in opera and ballet (for documentary reasons I'm actually more interested in the latter). For in stance after watching a very nice Met Zauberflöte Rosie said we should get a Don G. But there are only three or four listed: 1987 Karajan, 1959 Fürtwängler and one or two I forget. None seemed actually irresistible. But I may be wrong.
One cannot make really sophisticated judgements when there's so little comparison. However I sure wouldn't mind having been in the Met audience of the Zauberflöte we've got on DVD, with a lovely Kathleen Battle Pamina, and Kurt Moll as Sarastro. On the other hand, Fracisco Araiza's Tamino looks like he's made out of wood.
And speaking of women whom the camera just
loves, I have a copy of the Kirov Ruslan & Lyudmila, with Anna Netrebko. For some reason she doesn't wear miniskirts in this production, but boy, it's hard to believe a woman this yummy can actually sing this good.
http://www.annanetrebko.com/persgall4.shtml(the other woman is Magdalena Kozena, whom one can see fading into the far distance, in comparison with Netrebko. Bye! Don't call us; we'll call you!)
http://www.annanetrebko.com/portraitgall8.shtmlNeedless to say the Kirov production of Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame is a must have. Same Hermann as in the cd recording, but the Count is sung by Leiferkus in the dvd.
I have to admit I'm a bit of a Kirov nut: most of my ballet dvd's are from Petersburg too (if only because the NYCBallet hasn't started turning their VCRs into DVDs yet, alas).
Anyone else with DVD recommendations?
Herman
[This message was edited by herm on SUNDAY 28 December 2003 at 11:28.]
Posted on: 29 December 2003 by Phil Barry
Anything done in 1959 by Wilhelm Furtwangler of BPO fame would be of interest. He is said to have died in 1954.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by herm
Phil,
I was inaccurate in most of what I said about Don Giovanni DVDs. There are more than three listed:
Fürtwängler 1954 Salzburg
Karajan 1987 Salzburg
James Conlon in Cologne
Yakov Kreizberg at Glyndebourne
Harnoncourt (with a youngish Bartoli)
Mackerras in Prague
Anyone any cd or dvd familiarity with any of these?
Herman
Posted on: 30 December 2003 by Todd A
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman:
The Boulez Ring is also worth having, although it does sometimes look like a 70s glam rock video.
Damn it, stop recommending DVDs, and Ring DVDs, in particular! (I'd have to get both currently available Ring cycles, you see, the Boulez for me, and the Levine for my son, as it appears to be a more traditional production. That’s my story anyway) I'm getting ever closer to buying a DVD player which will then open the floodgates to buying opera on DVD. That could be a financially ruinous experience.
The mention of a Kreizberg led
Don Giovanni is intriguing. Ever since I attended a concert where he conducted Mahler’s First and Beethoven’s C Major concerto (with Piotr Anderszewski) earlier this year, I’ve been interested in hearing some of his recordings. Since he appears to do a lot of opera, it looks like I may go that route. He’s definitely a theatrical conductor, but in a good, non-Soltiesque way.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius,
MeditationsPosted on: 31 December 2003 by Todd A
I went to the Tower web-site, just to see if there are any DVDs worth owning, and what did I find but possible financial calamity! In addition to some of the fine suggestions already made, I found an Andrew Davis-led Lulu with Christine Schaeffer in the lead, a 1973 Tristan under Bohm with Vickers and Nilsson in the leads, and Abbado's Khovanshchina. Anyone heard/seen these? If not (and probably if so), I think I may have to plunk down for a DVD player pretty quick. (I don't think my son's X-box will suffice for my needs.)
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Posted on: 24 January 2004 by Todd A
I got my hands on a cheap, pre-GROC set of Giulini's Don Carlos, and all I can say is Yowza! This is my kind of Verdi! Forget Otello and Falstaff (well, okay, don't forget them), this is what I was looking for: Grand Opera worthy of that description in every way. The characters are all well written and performed, the music neither too thick nor too dramatic, the pacing just right. (I could have done without the Voice from Heaven bit, though.) This joins those other two five-act, political, expansive Grand Operas Les Troyens and Khovanshchina on my list of favorites.
"The universe is change, life is opinion." Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
