Pysch/Prog/Folk Thread for Anybody Interested

Posted by: Guido Fawkes on 06 August 2006

JWM - asked if I'd considered a compendium of Prog rock. Well I'm probably not up to the task and as I'll probably drift in to Pysch and Folk and Euro and Space Rock without even noticing, I've titled the thread accordingly. So I'm afraid it's a case of Irk The Purists and lets give it a go. See also the Prog thread.

So where do we start - lets go back to 1926. Janáček’s Sinfonietta was written in the spring of 1926. And yes you know it - it was borrowed by ELP on their first album and called Knife Edge and it was also used to introduce the 60s classic court room drama - Crown Court. So if you haven't got this in your collection then you should have and if you are one of those who posts that he (or she) doesn't like classical music then give it a try.

Of course, when we arrive in the 1960s things start to happen. Perhaps most significant are these albums



Shirley Collins - should be Dame Shirley as she has done more for English music than anybody - Shirley Collins is without doubt one of England's greatest cultural treasures - Billy Bragg

Folk Roots, New Roots - Shirley Collins and Davey Graham: it is simple really: collect some of the best songs from our heritage and bring together a superb singer and a very good guitarist. You have a masterpiece.



1. Nottamun Town
2. Proud Maisrie
3. The Cherry Tree Carol
4. Blue Monk
5. Hares On The Mountain
6. Reynardine
7. Pretty Saro
8. Rif Mountain
9. Jane, Jane
10. Love Is Pleasin'
11. Boll Weevil, Holler
12. Hori Horo
13. Bad Girl
14. Lord Greggory
15. Grooveyard
16. Dearest Dear

Growing up listening in a house where jazz, Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley dominated, Folk Roots, New Roots was a breath of fresh air - it made me want to listen to music. I've been an addict ever since.

Of course, we have got to mention the Beatles and the Kinks - it is easy: simply buy all their albums: there are no duff ones. But that is obvious and I think my compendium should focus on the less obvious

So lets kick of with the Incredible String Band - it was they that influenced the Beatles. The two albums that you simply must listen to are



The 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion contains alternating Heron and Williamson songs. Every track is sensational and it combines eastern and western music in a unique way.

"Chinese White" (Mike Heron) – 3:40
"No Sleep Blues" (Robin Williamson) – 3:53
"Painting Box" (Heron) – 4:04
"The Mad Hatter's Song" (Williamson) – 5:40
"Little Cloud" (Heron) – 4:05
"The Eyes of Fate" (Williamson) – 4:02
"Blues for the Muse" (Williamson) – 2:49
"The Hedgehog's Song" (Heron) – 3:30
"First Girl I Loved" (Williamson) – 4:55
"You Know What You Could Be" (Heron) – 2:46
"My Name Is Death" (Williamson) – 2:46
"Gently Tender" (Heron) – 4:49
"Way Back in the 1960s" (Williamson) – 3:11



I'm tempted to say The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter is more of the same and in many ways it is, but it contains an epic song: 'A Very Cellular Song' which drifts from one musical style to another and yet maintains its coherence.

"Koeeaddi There" (Robin Williamson) - 4:49
"The Minotaur's Song" (Williamson) - 3:22
"Witches Hat" (Williamson) - 2:33
"A Very Cellular Song" (Mike Heron) - 13:09
"Mercy I Cry City" (Heron) - 2:46
"Waltz of the New Moon" (Williamson) - 5:10
"The Water Song" (Williamson) - 2:50
"Three Is a Green Crown" (Williamson) - 7:46
"Swift as the Wind" (Heron) - 4:53
"Nightfall" (Williamson) - 2:33

So these are my first two recommendations for anybody vaguely interested. I don't think these albums would have surfaced had it not been for Shirley Collins and I doubt if we would have had Sgt Pepper had it not been for the Beatles love of ISB (though it was the ISB's first album from '66 that John Lennon and Paul McCartney both acknowledged).
Posted on: 20 January 2007 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Shaw:
I believe that all current recordings prior to Autobahn are bootlegs/pirates. I don't think R&F want to re-issue them, which is a great shame.



Hi Gary!
I dont' know about "krafwerk-technopop" but Musicstack is a second hand records market.
I saw some original '71 and '72 vinyls.
Anyway i think it's worth a look.
Cheers!
Gianluigi
Posted on: 21 January 2007 by Nick Lees
quote:
Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:
Hi Gary!
I dont' know about "krafwerk-technopop" but Musicstack is a second hand records market.
I saw some original '71 and '72 vinyls.
Anyway i think it's worth a look.
Cheers!
Gianluigi

You're dead right, of course. It does get my goat though when some classic stuff just doesn't see the light of day properly. Add the Calvert-era Hawkwind albums (e.g. Hawklords, Quark) and the Idle Race to the list.

Rock Fever (German) and Synton (Austrian) are both pirate specialists that try to look kosher and I have my suspicions about Radioactive (UK) - their Straight releases smell funny!
Posted on: 21 January 2007 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Shaw:


Rock Fever (German) and Synton (Austrian) are both pirate specialists that try to look kosher and I have my suspicions about Radioactive (UK) - their Straight releases smell funny!


Oh well!
Red Face
Thanks for informations Gary.
Of course when i'm running around looking for some records i can do nothing but trust in what i find.
It's all virtual in the end.

You say they're pirates.
Nobody did crush them yet?
Posted on: 21 January 2007 by Guido Fawkes
Gianluigi - thanks for the info. If you do trust the site and try to buy the Kraftwerk first two albums are not listed. I do have a genuine copy of Ralf & Florian on vinyl - perhaps one day we'll see these very early recordings appear too.

Gary - I have Quark, Strangeness & Charm on vinyl and 25 Years On: they are OK albums, but I wouldn't pay a lot of money for them. My favourite recording of Robert Calvert is Captain Lockheed.
Posted on: 21 January 2007 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Gianluigi - thanks for the info.


You're welcome!
Cheers!
Gianluigi
Posted on: 22 January 2007 by Nick Lees
quote:
Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:
You say they're pirates.
Nobody did crush them yet?

Those Hawkwind releases are subject (I believe) to a wrangle between Dave Brock and Calvert's estate. Virgin did release an official version but it didn't stay on the market for long, there's now a clutch of cds on Sunrise that also look dubious.

Synton at least target extremely obscure Psych albums that otherwise will never see the light of day. I have Mr Flood's Party from them - it's musically very good and deserves a wider release, especially as whatever source Synton has used is fairly dull-sounding. I have seen complaints from pirated artists though they seems to be little they can do as in many cases they no longer own the rights to the work and the original labels have often gone out of business.

I'm less sure about Radioactive. I have a few of them and although some are good, the Tim Dawe and Judy Henske & Jerry Yester (an absolutely stone-cold psych classic) are both disapppointing transcriptions clearly from nothing like a master tape, and I did read an interview with Henske where she was totally unaware that it had been released.
Posted on: 22 January 2007 by Nick Lees
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Gary - I have Quark, Strangeness & Charm on vinyl and 25 Years On: they are OK albums, but I wouldn't pay a lot of money for them. My favourite recording of Robert Calvert is Captain Lockheed.

I ahve a very soft spot for that era Hawkwind, as I do for some of their 89s stuff, even if they don't come up to the high standard of the early years. Never got to grip with Captain Lockheed!
Posted on: 22 January 2007 by Nick Lees
Just to underline Steveb's recommendation for Wigwam.

The one to start with is Fairyport



Get yourselves over to Prog Archives and play the track Losing Hold. A fine piece of riffage in the style of early Soft Machine and Supersister.

The follow-up album Being is good, but not quite as consistent. After that they lost their outstanding keyboard player though their (almost) final concert with that line-up Live Music From the Twilight Zone is very good - though with a high proportion of cover versions.

After that they became rather ordinary.
Posted on: 22 January 2007 by Nick Lees
Tasavallan Presidentti were another Finnish band from the early 70s and were chums of Wigwam.

Lambertland



Is their classic - a fine blend of jazzy prog without the bombast.

Again, Prog Archives has a whole track from the album and it's totally representative.
Posted on: 22 January 2007 by Nick Lees
And to complete a little trio of Finns from the same era:

Haikara



Some Jethro Tull and even a smidgeon of Van Der Graaf influences in there. Manala's the best track though they're all good. However, you will have to put up with the fact that it's all in Finnish, so goodness only knows what they're singing about.

And guess who has a track from it?
Posted on: 22 January 2007 by Nick Lees
Meanwhile, at the same time just across the Baltic...

Burnin' Red Ivanhoe



Actually made it across to the UK with their rather presciently titled W.W.W. album which features a song all about Croydon, though the album's predominantly instrumental, again in a jazz-prog style with flutes, sax and the usual things.

No samples on Prog Archives sadly but this is what they have to say, but I recently picked up a two-on-one of W.W.W. and their first off German eBay cheaply and wasn't disappointed (I'd never heard the 1st before).
Posted on: 25 January 2007 by rupert bear
Has Judee Sill been mentioned on this thread? I confess to having avoided (?) her work for 34 years or whatever it is but finally succumbed due to a friend who compared it to Andy Partridge's stuff on the better XTC albums (AP's a big fan apparently). It's superb! Reminds me of the Brian Wilson produced 'American Spring' album (1972) but more rootsy and sometimes more ornate. The Asylum Years covers the 2 albums plus bonuses.
Posted on: 25 January 2007 by Guido Fawkes
Gary: Burning Red Ivanhoe - excellent band.

Reupert: I know nothing of Judee Sill - are there any samples lurking on the Internet waiting to listened to.

I don't think this thread mentioned Ten Years After and I've been relistening to and enjoying a lot of their stuff recently.

Stonedhenge
Cricklewwod Grren
Watt
Space In Time

Well worth digging out if you haven't done so for a while.

It seems A.Lee is great name for guitar heroes: there's Alvin Lee (TYA), Albert Lee (Heads, Hands & Feet) and Arthur Lee (Love) - is this mere coincidence.
Posted on: 25 January 2007 by Nick Lees
Rupert,

I think you'd really have to stick your head in a bag and squint to see Judee Sill as Prog or Psych, but maybe if you stuffed a dead hamster in each ear you could just about say she was folk, though in a very Californian/Singer-Songwriter sort of way.

That's not to denigrate her (or you) in any way, the bits I've heard are very good but just not any of the above.
Posted on: 25 January 2007 by Nick Lees
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Gary: Burning Red Ivanhoe - excellent band.

They are good, though at the time I was slightly put off by the vocals. I'll freely admit I didn't particularly rate foreign bands (apart from German) back then, partly because of the vocals thing (with Amon Düül 2 you had the character of Chris Karrer's Cherman English or Renate's shriek and with Can you had the pan-galactic babbling of Damo Suzuki or Mr Mooney so that was OK).

I've happily shed those prejudices, so of those above albums I rate the Haikara the best even though they might be passionately re-telling the tale of when they last milked the elks.

BTW this may have been covered before, but do you have a name other than ROTF that we call you? Just sounds a bit awkward in conversation... :-)
Posted on: 25 January 2007 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Shaw:
BTW this may have been covered before, but do you have a name other than ROTF that we call you? Just sounds a bit awkward in conversation... :-)


Well I used to go by the name of Kenny, but I've got used to RotF. I once wrote some songs for a band called Recollections of the Future: thankfully none of them ever made it on to recorded media (as far as I know).
Posted on: 25 January 2007 by Nick Lees
Fair enough. ROTF it is (even though it makes me think of rolling on the floor!)
Posted on: 26 January 2007 by rupert bear
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Shaw:
Rupert,

I think you'd really have to stick your head in a bag and squint to see Judee Sill as Prog or Psych, but maybe if you stuffed a dead hamster in each ear you could just about say she was folk, though in a very Californian/Singer-Songwriter sort of way.

That's not to denigrate her (or you) in any way, the bits I've heard are very good but just not any of the above.


Gary,
I take your point, but discovering her for the first time this week (!!) I was struck by the ornate arrangements and the sonic textures of the discs as much as the roots in country music. They sound very much of their era - early seventies - which is the (second half of the) timeframe most associated with this heading, and reminded me most of Brian Wilson's production for American Spring (1972). The sleevenotes for the Sill reissue refer to her own description of 'country-cult-baroque', so there you go.
Posted on: 26 January 2007 by Nick Lees
quote:
Originally posted by rupert bear:
Gary,
I take your point, but discovering her for the first time this week (!!) I was struck by the ornate arrangements and the sonic textures of the discs as much as the roots in country music. They sound very much of their era - early seventies - which is the (second half of the) timeframe most associated with this heading, and reminded me most of Brian Wilson's production for American Spring (1972). The sleevenotes for the Sill reissue refer to her own description of 'country-cult-baroque', so there you go.

American Spring were great weren't they (made, as you say, by the arrangements). If you're taken with the Judee Sill, track down the only album by Linda Perhacs. She was a dental nurse in the early 70s who made just one album on an obscure label that sank without trace. It's been resurrected by a link with (of all people) Porcupine Tree and is a mixture of that 70's Californian vibe with some odd stuff thrown in (though easy on the baroque arrangements the songs are lovely). Her website only has one sample and that's a recent re-make of the title track and can't be really used to judge the original album so head instead to CD Baby for samples.
Posted on: 02 February 2007 by Nick Lees
From the same period as those Scandinavian bands but this time from Holland: Supersister...

They made six albums between 1970 and 74 and they're a mixed bag, veering from the excellent to the err...zany/throwaway.

Their style is a mix of Soft Machine, Hatfield and.....Frank Zappa (in his sillier moods) and Prog Archives officially categorises them as a Canterbury band (Dutch branch). They're keyboard-led (by Robert Jan Stips who later pops up in Golden Earring and then the magnificent and vastly underrated Nits) and the keyboards got that Ratledge sound to it.

They're at their best when doing their long jazzy jams, but on top form their songs are very good too.

The six albums are available as two-fers and can be picked up from Amazons across Europe for around 7 or 8 Euros.

The best ones are:

1970 Present From Nancy (often mis-spelt on Amazon as Nacy)

1971 To The Highest Bidder

(Both the above are on one CD)

1972 Pudding En Gesteren

1974 Iskander


The weak ones, where the zaniness takes almost complete control to the detriment of the music:

1972 Superstarshine (paired with Pudding on CD)

1974 Spiral Staircase (paired with Iskander)


The tracks on Prog Archives aren't the best by some way, but if you feel like taking a bit of a risk then get the Present From Nancy/To The Highest Bidder CD and go from there.
Posted on: 06 February 2007 by MichaelC
A recent addition to the collection is When's the Future - Then. Think of a fusion of Hawkwind, Gong, Magic Mushroom Band. On the Dynamite Vision label - excellent pysch/prog in a modern vein.

Also try the various releases by Kromlek.

I would have posted links but it looks as if the Dynamite Vision website is being updated. I'll remember to post updated links.
Posted on: 07 February 2007 by Nick Lees
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC:
A recent addition to the collection is When's the Future - Then. Think of a fusion of Hawkwind, Gong, Magic Mushroom Band. On the Dynamite Vision label - excellent pysch/prog in a modern vein.

Also try the various releases by Kromlek.

I would have posted links but it looks as if the Dynamite Vision website is being updated. I'll remember to post updated links.

Michael, This gets you to the samples. Sounds interesting!
Posted on: 07 February 2007 by Nick Lees
And a couple of Kromlek whole tracks. Again, sound interesting. Ta.
Posted on: 20 February 2007 by Guido Fawkes
As a way to complete my participation in this thread - I thought I'd be self indulgent, as usual, and give a sort of top 20 British Prog albums that everybody should have. They are not in any particular order and I'm sure I've left out one or two essentials, but if you like Prog then these would constitute a decent collection of the heavy weights. For those who like a quiz only one of my selection is a live album - which one?

I don't have the originals and have no idea where you'd find them, but I've put rough valuations for the originals for interest only.

In Search Of The Lost Chord - Moody Blues - £20 gatefold
The Soft Machine - The Soft Machine - £10
Aqualung - Jethro Tull - £20 gatefold
In The Court Of The Crimson King - King Crimson - £50 (must be first pressing)
The Nice - The Nice - £20
If I Could Do It Again I'd Do It All Over You - Caravan - £30
Shine On Brightly - Procal Harum - £22 mono
Octopus - Gentle Giant - £25
Once Again - Barclay James Harvest - £22 Quad version
Pawn Hearts - Van Der Graaf Generator - £30 gatefold + insert
Pictures At An Exhibition - Emerson Lake Palmer - £12
The Yes Album - Yes - £10
From Home to Home - Fairfield Parlour - £1000 (no it's not a mistake: I've got the CD reissue worth about £10.49 and available from Amazon etc)
Whatevershebringswesing - Kevin Ayres and the Whole World - £10
Tubular Bells - Mike Oldfield - £20 Quad version
Trespass - Genesis - £10
Death Walks Behind You - Atomic Rooster - £15
Solar Fire - Manfred Mann's Earth Band - £12
Valentyne Suite - Colosseum - £12
The Dark Side Of The Moon - Pink Floyd - £30 Quad with gatefold

I looked up the valuation in the Record Collector Rare Record Guide.
Posted on: 20 February 2007 by willem
Dear ROTF,

Nice list! I can agree on the Soft Machine, VDGG, Kevin Ayers, and maybe the Nice. The rest IMHO is either too popular (DSOTM) or just plain pulp Winker (Yes, Oldfield).

Very kind regards,

Willem