Pysch/Prog/Folk Thread for Anybody Interested
Posted by: Guido Fawkes on 06 August 2006
JWM - asked if I'd considered a compendium of Prog rock. Well I'm probably not up to the task and as I'll probably drift in to Pysch and Folk and Euro and Space Rock without even noticing, I've titled the thread accordingly. So I'm afraid it's a case of
Irk The Purists and lets give it a go. See also the
Prog thread.
So where do we start - lets go back to 1926. Janáček’s Sinfonietta was written in the spring of 1926. And yes you know it - it was borrowed by ELP on their first album and called
Knife Edge and it was also used to introduce the 60s classic court room drama - Crown Court. So if you haven't got this in your collection then you should have and if you are one of those who posts that he (or she) doesn't like classical music then give it a try.
Of course, when we arrive in the 1960s things start to happen. Perhaps most significant are these albums
Shirley Collins - should be Dame Shirley as she has done more for English music than anybody -
Shirley Collins is without doubt one of England's greatest cultural treasures - Billy Bragg
Folk Roots, New Roots - Shirley Collins and Davey Graham: it is simple really: collect some of the best songs from our heritage and bring together a superb singer and a very good guitarist. You have a masterpiece.
1. Nottamun Town
2. Proud Maisrie
3. The Cherry Tree Carol
4. Blue Monk
5. Hares On The Mountain
6. Reynardine
7. Pretty Saro
8. Rif Mountain
9. Jane, Jane
10. Love Is Pleasin'
11. Boll Weevil, Holler
12. Hori Horo
13. Bad Girl
14. Lord Greggory
15. Grooveyard
16. Dearest Dear
Growing up listening in a house where jazz, Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley dominated,
Folk Roots, New Roots was a breath of fresh air - it made me want to listen to music. I've been an addict ever since.
Of course, we have got to mention the Beatles and the Kinks - it is easy: simply buy all their albums: there are no duff ones. But that is obvious and I think my compendium should focus on the less obvious
So lets kick of with the Incredible String Band - it was they that influenced the Beatles. The two albums that you simply must listen to are
The 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion contains alternating Heron and Williamson songs. Every track is sensational and it combines eastern and western music in a unique way.
"Chinese White" (Mike Heron) – 3:40
"No Sleep Blues" (Robin Williamson) – 3:53
"Painting Box" (Heron) – 4:04
"The Mad Hatter's Song" (Williamson) – 5:40
"Little Cloud" (Heron) – 4:05
"The Eyes of Fate" (Williamson) – 4:02
"Blues for the Muse" (Williamson) – 2:49
"The Hedgehog's Song" (Heron) – 3:30
"First Girl I Loved" (Williamson) – 4:55
"You Know What You Could Be" (Heron) – 2:46
"My Name Is Death" (Williamson) – 2:46
"Gently Tender" (Heron) – 4:49
"Way Back in the 1960s" (Williamson) – 3:11
I'm tempted to say
The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter is more of the same and in many ways it is, but it contains an epic song: 'A Very Cellular Song' which drifts from one musical style to another and yet maintains its coherence.
"Koeeaddi There" (Robin Williamson) - 4:49
"The Minotaur's Song" (Williamson) - 3:22
"Witches Hat" (Williamson) - 2:33
"A Very Cellular Song" (Mike Heron) - 13:09
"Mercy I Cry City" (Heron) - 2:46
"Waltz of the New Moon" (Williamson) - 5:10
"The Water Song" (Williamson) - 2:50
"Three Is a Green Crown" (Williamson) - 7:46
"Swift as the Wind" (Heron) - 4:53
"Nightfall" (Williamson) - 2:33
So these are my first two recommendations for anybody vaguely interested. I don't think these albums would have surfaced had it not been for Shirley Collins and I doubt if we would have had Sgt Pepper had it not been for the Beatles love of ISB (though it was the ISB's first album from '66 that John Lennon and Paul McCartney both acknowledged).
Posted on: 23 August 2006 by MichaelC
Another terrific band which should be mentioned in this thread is The Magic Mushroom Band - start with Process of Illumination and explore their catalogue. And for those that do not know I will leave it to you to discover who they became.
Posted on: 24 August 2006 by Malky
Anyone remember 'Fever Tree'? A kind of 'Love/ Beatles' hybrid. I faintly remeber my brother having one of their albums when I was a kid.
Posted on: 28 August 2006 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by steveb:
ROTF
You must put right neglect of Nektar-live they were superb with a brilliant lightshow. Saw them this year minus lightshow-musically great -loud and heavy-but did miss the lights-difficult to suggest albums but i like Tab in the Ocean, Sounds Like This and Remember The Future. There is also a recently released live DVD "Pure"from a 2005 show with full light show.
Have a look at their website:-
http://www.nektar.us/nn/home/home_new.aspAgree about Eloy, The Ocean Pt 2, The Answer is a fave.
Also note you are also a fan of Faust- another of my faves. There is a book on them due to be published in September covering The Wumme Years:-Faust: Stretch out Time 1970-75 by Andy Wilson-I think he administers their website-further info at:-
http://www.faust-pages.com/Steve
Steve
Thank you for the info.
I'll definitely investigate Nektar and will be on the look out for the book about Faust.
Best regards, Rotf
Posted on: 29 August 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Trees:
Celia Humphries - Lead Vocals
Bias Boshell - Song writer and Bass
Barry Clarke - Lead Guitar
David Costa - Acoustic Guitars
Unwin Brown - Drums
made two super folk rock albums and then vanished - they are both worth a listen. They are almost gothic in quality. Celia's vocals are enchanting.
I prefer the version of
Polly On The Shore that is on the CBS sampler album
Rockbuster, but anything by Tress is worth exploring.
The Garden of Jane Delawney"Nothing Special"
"The Great Silkie"*
"The Garden of Jane Delawney"
"Lady Margaret"*
"Glasgerion"*
"She Moved Through the Fair"*
"Road"
"Epitath"
"Snail's Lament"
Apparently
All About Eve and
Dark Sanctuary have covered songs from
The Garden of Jane Delawney
1. Soldiers Three
2. Murdoch
3. Polly On The Shore
4. Adam's Toon
5. Sally Free & Easy
6. Fool
7. Geordie
8. While The Iron Is Hot
9. Little Sadie
10. Streets Of Derry
Does anybody know what became of them?
Posted on: 29 August 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Of course when you've come to terms with Trees, you may want progress to Forest
The first Forest elpee and the follow up
Full Circle are available as a CD set. They are good albums in an ISB/Dr Strangely Strange mold.
Even better try Clive Palmer who was a founder member of ISB and released the superbly titled and very good to listen to
Moyshe Mcstiff and Tartan Lancers of the Sacred Heart
This a great album: a subtle blend of Eastern, Folk and Traditional images.
Of course, you can try
First Utterance
by Comus - I hope you like it more than I do. It has a great reputation, but I found it far to dense and lacking in humour. It has 5-star ratings from all the reviwers on Amazon, so it must be me that doesn't quite get it.
Posted on: 29 August 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Better than Comus IMO
For Fox Sake by The Fox
Their manager thought the 1970 demo tapes were so good he persauded a record company to release it. It is not bad, but I wish he'd let them polish it up a bit, for fox sake. The group didn't like the title that was chosen, BTW.
It is progressive folk - if that means anything.
Lots of Hammond organ BTW
Posted on: 30 August 2006 by MichaelC
On a very sad note I have just read that Pip Pyle has died.
Posted on: 31 August 2006 by Guido Fawkes
This is very bad news - Pip was a very important figure in music and contributed a great deal to my life through his music. He'll be sadly missed.
THE drummer of the Canterbury scene. As Hatfield and the North's drummer, Pip Pyle deserves mention as one of the greatest drummers on the progressive rock scene.
A worthwhile
tribute to Pip.
Pip Pyle (1950-2006) - R.I.P.
Born : April 4th, 1950 - Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire (England)
Died : August 28th, 2006 - Paris (France)
Pip was a member of various bands including:
Delivery (1966-70)
Chicken Shack (1970-71)
Gong (1971)
Paul Jones Group (1972)
All Wet And Dripping (1972)
Hatfield and the North (1972-75, 2005-06)
Weightwatchers (1975-76)
National Health (1977-83)
Soft Heap (1978-88)
Rapid Eye Movement (1980-81)
In Cahoots (1982-2001)
Pip Pyle's Equip'Out (1984-95)
Patrice Meyer Trio/Quartet (1985-87)
Mimi Lorenzini Trio (1987)
Faton Cahen Trio (1987-88)
John Greaves Band (1990-91)
Short Wave (1991-96)
Gong Shapeshifter (1992-93)
Hugh Hopper Band (1994)
Richard Sinclair's RSVP (1994)
Gong (1994-96)
Bash (2002-04)
Absolute Zero (1999-2006)
Posted on: 01 September 2006 by Malky
Free CD with this month's Mojo. Kevin Ayres, Pentangle, Bert Jansch, John and Beverly Martyn, Davey Graham and loads more I've never heard of.
Posted on: 01 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Now that's got to be worth buying - Mojo is getting really good with its cover CDs.
Posted on: 01 September 2006 by Malky
There's some great stuff on it. Shelagh Mcdonald, Diane Cluck and Espers in particular.
Posted on: 03 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Just dug out and listened to some early albums by The Amboy Dukes. These were made when Steve Farmer rather than Ted Nugent was the dominant member of the bad - although Ted's guitar is an obvious ingredient.
However, don't be put off if you think Ted's more well known efforts are OTT - these albums are more of a psych nature and much better for it IMHO.
Recommended listening
The Amboy Dukes
Journey To The Centre of The Mind
MigrationsIf you only have a chance to hear one then
Journey To The Centre of The Mind would the one I'd go for.
Think Pink Floyd and Arnold Layne or Tomorrow and My White Bicycle and this is what you can expect from the early Amboys.
Posted on: 04 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Rupert's People, formed in 1967 were Rod Lynton and Steve Brendell; they recorded
All So Long Ago with
Charles Brown on the b-side. Rod was asked to change [/i]Charles Brown[/i] and put it to the tune of [/i]Air on a G String[/i]. It was retitled
Reflections of Charles Brown. Les Fleurs de Lys were recruited to play on the track as well as the excellent Hold On. Peter Solley also joined for the sessions on organ. He was later in Procol Harum. Les Fleurs de Lys pulled out leaving the manager with a record deal, single but no band. However, the virtual band was christened Rupert's People. This was not the end of the Procol Harum connection though as Whiter Share of Pale was released around the same time and, like the Rupert's People track, was based around a classical piece.
Reflections of Charles Brown was a moderate success while
Whiter Shade of Pale was a blockbuster.
Les Fleur De Lys started out as a beat combo with Frank Smith (guitar/vocals), Alex Chamberlain (Organ), Gary Churchill (Bass) and Keith Guster (Drums). The band were signed to Immediate in 1965 and recorded Buddy Holly's Moondreams backed with
Wait For Me with a young
Jimmy Page. The single flopped and this lineup disbanded leaving only drummer Keith Guster to continue on. Teaming up with some musicians from London, Les Fleur De Lys went back into the studio to record their best track, Pete Townshend's
Circles with Jimmy Page again, this was better than the original by The Who. New members were
Gordon Haskell (bass),
Pete Sears (keyboards) and Phil Sawyer (guitar). The band recruited Chris Andrews on vocals, and signed to Polydor. Pete Sears (later in Jefferson Starship) was fired and guitarist Phil Sawyer left and Fleur De Lys was a three-piece. They did
Mud In Your Eye with Bryan Haworth. This led to working with a young girl singer
Sharon Tandy; the band backed Aretha Franklin and Issac Hayes and recorded an album with Barney Kessel. It was then that Fleur De Lys backed Rod Lynton under the name Rupert's People. Fleur De Lys became backed Sharon Tandy with a remake of Rupert's Peoples'
Hold On and a new track:
Daughter Of The Sun. Later Fleur De Lys gained Bryn Haworth on vocals for
I Can See The Light/Prodigal Son. They did a Top Gear show with Sharon Tandy followed this with Gordon Haskell's
Gong With A Luminous Nose.
If you're interested in any of this then
Rubble which I detailed early in this thread is a good place to explore. Worth seeking out are two compilations.
Magic World of Ruperts People
Les Fleurs De Lys Reflection
Posted on: 05 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Wakeman's on the first, but gone by the time the Strawbs released their two best (IMO) albums:
Grave New World and
Bursting at the Seams.
Dave Cousins + Hudson/Ford - superb.
Posted on: 06 September 2006 by Bob McC
Wakeman ruined the Strawbs. Their eponymous album was a fine one too, as was Cousins solo stuff later.
Posted on: 06 September 2006 by JWM
ROTF, and everyone else who's contributed -
This really is one of the finest threads! I thought I was a prog fan, but you chaps left me in standing weeks ago! It really is very interesting. Write a book ROTF!! (Include blue and white on the cover.)
James
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Thanks for the kind words. I've collected vinyl records and CDs since I was about 11 years old - way back in the 1960s to quote Incredible String Band from their 1967 song of that title. So I'm really just going through the collection.
I'm not sure I'm up to writing a book. I think there are far better writers than me (most of the folks on this forum for instance). Record Collector has interesting articles on the subject. It ran a complete A-Z of British psych that was excellent.
What I like about RC is that usually an enthusiast reviews an artist he or she likes - and so you can become fascinated by a type of music you may not otherwise have explored.
I did think about applying for Mastermind as I think I could do a specialist round on Half Man, Half Biscuit, Shirley Collins or the subject of this thread, but my lack of general knowledge would be embarrassing - though I do know who won the cup in 1978.
All the best, Rotf.
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Tim
Did anyone mention Dr Strangely Strange? Creators of the amazing Strangely Strange but Oddly Normal on the excellent Nice Enough To Eat Island sampler. I liked it so much I sought out the album, Kip of the Serenes, which is hard to find on vinyl but now easily obtainable on CD; I've not yet heard its companion, Heavy Petting.
Kip is enjoyable but I think Island chose the right track for the sampler.
Tim
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Tim - I hope I mentioned DSS, Ireland's answer to ISB.
Heavy Petting is different from Kip of the Serenes, much heavier. It's more Strangely Strange than Oddly Normal. What starts as a cute folk song suddenly transforms in to a Clapton like guitar solo. It's weird, but wonderful.
You can obtain it on CD from the Freak Emporium -
here, sorry no vinyl reissues as far as I know.
I think you're right about Island's selection for Nice Enough To Eat, as Strangely Strange, but Oddly Normal is the best track by far -
there you go.
My favourite bit of DSS is
Spirit Beautiful on Mike Heron's
Smilin' Men With Bad Reputations = excellent album. The Who track on it is great too - with Mike replacing Roger Daltry on vocals, the improvement is very obvious (little bit of controversy creeping in there).
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
I'll leave early Renaissance to someone better informed than I. I know Keith Relf formed Renaissance with Jim McCarty as a progressive folk band when he left the Yardbirds. I know both Keith and Jim had left by the time, they made the two classic albums
Ashes are Burning and
Turn of the Cards.
What so great about these alums is it Jon Camp's bass, John Tout ex-Rupert's People or Terry Sullivan on drums, or even Mike Dunford on acoustic guitar. Not really, I would underestimate their contibution, especially Tout's piano, but the real gem is the singer:
Annie Haslam.
The songs showcase Annie and when you've got a singer who is that good then showcasing her is a very good idea.
The songs are collaborations by guitarist, Dunford and Betty Thatcher. There are orchestral bits on many tracks courtesy of Richard Hewson (ashes) and Jimmy Horowitz (Card).
It works and it is well woth a listen - "Black Flame" and "Mother Russia" are superb on Card. The title track on Ashes is my favourite Rennaisance track and one of the very best prog rock songs ever.
Very highly recommended.
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Remember
She's Not There - great track sung by Colin Blunstone and played by the Zombies. The Zombies went on to record the magnificent
Odessey and Oracle. If you haven't got this album then I think your missing out on one of the greatest albums of the 1960s.
If you like the Beatles in Penny Lane or Eleanor Eigby mode then you'll love
Odessey and Oracle. If you like the Beach Boys at their best then this is better and more consistent. It really is
that good.
Care of Cell (Argent)
A Rose for Emily (Argent)
Maybe After He's Gone (White)
Beechwood Park (White)
Brief Candles (White)
Hung up on a Dream (Argent)
Changes (White)
I Want Her She Wants Me (Argent)
This Will Be Our Year (White)
Butcher's Tale (Western Front 1914) (White)
Friends of Mine (White)
Time of The Season (Argent)
I can't pick a best track because they are all great songs from keyboard player, Tod Argent, and Chris White.
When the Zombies folded, Argent and White went on to form Argent with Russ Ballard (the man who wrote
Since You've Been Gone and
I Surrender for Rainbow). Argent released two excellent elpees and even after that some pretty good stuff like
Hold Your Head Up and
God Gave Rock and Roll To Us - although I still like the first two records best.
Favourite dracks:
Liar and
Dance In The Smoke from Argent and
Celebration and
Where Are We Going Wrong from Ring of Hands.
If you only buy one then I'd go for
Odessey and Oracle, but all three are gems.
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
OK so - what about Mr B and Mr B and Mr Roy?
Bowie for me is a decent enough artist and I like all his stuff up to Space Oddity. Adter that I felt it got a bit patchy, There are some great tracks on his later albums, but none as consistently good as his first album
World of.. would be my favourite Bowie album had it not been for the CD release called the
Deram Anthology. There's not a bad track on it and for me
The London Boys is the best thing Davy Jones ever wrote.
Rubber Band
The London Boys
The Laughing Gnome
The Gospel According to Tony Day
Uncle Arthur
Sell Me a Coat
Rubber Band
Love You Till Tuesday
There Is a Happy Land
We Are Hungry Men
When I Live My Dream
Little Bombardier
Silly Boy Blue
Come and Buy My Toys
Join the Gang
She's Got Medals
Maid of Bond Street
Please Mr. Gravedigger
Did You Ever Have a Dream
Karma Man
Let Me Sleep Beside You
In the Heat of the Morning
Ching-A-Ling Bowie
When I Live My Dream
Space Oddity
I also like his early work like
I Pity The Fool with the Lower Third and some stuff he recorded with The Manish Boys. There are later Bowie tracks that I really like, but I find the glam-rock bit hard to take and none of his later albums seem consistent to me in their quality. I'm sure many will diagree.
As for Mr Bolan well these are my three selections
My People Were Fair and Had Sky in Their Hair, But Now They're Content to Wear Stars On Their Brows brought Bolan to my attention and a very unique talent he was. This is a record totally unlike any other and still holds up well.
Prophets Seers And Sages he Angel Of The Afes is my favourite Tyrannosaurus Rex album -
Deborah, Stacey Grove and
Salamanda Palaganda. This was far better than his work with Jon's Children, which OK, but overrated and even better than
Hippy Gumbo and
The Wizard though I like both.
However my favourite work by Marc is
The Children Ran Suite - I have it on ablum called
Words and Music - if you get a chance to hear it do so it. It was in his T Rex years, but it is very good nonetheless. It lasts 20 minutes and is enchanting.
Talking of Tyrannosaurus Rex reminds of a man who could
Really Do The Brontosaurus" Roy Wood - a great talent.
The first album by The Move and the follow up
Shazam are superb albums. The first album contains
Night of Fear, Here We Go Round The Lemmon Tree,
Flowers In The Rain,
I Can Hear The Grass Grow and
Fire Brigade and the second contains
Cherry Blossom Clinc Revisited and
Hello Susie.
Looking On sees the Move morphing in to ELO - and it does have some great tracks:
Brontosaurus, Curly and the outstanding
Blackberry Way. Roy had a sense of humour and wrote some great psych/prog music - just a shame he had to write that wretched song about the Snowman - oh well (as Peter Green said)
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Am I allowed this one - it's opinion. Fleetwood Mac transformed from a fairly pedestrian blues group into a group that made a couple of great records and then descended in to some of the blandest AOR ever recorded (or so it's rumoured). Of course, Fleetwood Mac without Peter Green or Danny Kirwan weren't really for me.
My favourite tracks by Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac were
Man of the World, Oh Well Parts 1 and 2, Dragonfly, Green Manalishi With The Two Pronged Crown and
Black Magic Woman.
I'm not sure if PG played on
Dragonfly. I think the guitar is mainly Danny Kirwan, I know Danny wrote the song.
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Malky
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ROTF:
Fleetwood Mac transformed from a fairly pedestrian blues group.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
?? Ahem, ROTF, Peter Green was one of the greatest white blues players ever. His tragic tale is a salutory reminder of the havoc that drugs and the power of the blues can wreak on a fragile psyche. His music was truly spine tingling and genuinely scary, reflecting and expressing a tortured pain. You've already identified 'Green Manalishi', try 'Love that burns' 'Black magic woman' and, for a bit of light relief, his gorgeous, string laden version of Little Willie John's 'Need your love so bad' if you've time for a little detour from psych-folk.
Posted on: 08 September 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Hi Malky
I probably put it badly. I felt the first couple of albums "Peter Green's FleetWood Mac" and "Mr Wonderful" were OK, but not as good as the ones that followed "Pious Bird" and "Then Play On". In fairness, I've not listened to "Mr Wonderful" for a good while - so maybe it's time for me to reappraise.
I've absolutely nothing but respect for Peter Green as a guitarist and agree with all you say about him. I will listen again to Love that Burns from "Mr Wonderful" - perhaps I've underrated that album. Need Your Love So Bad is on "The Pious Bird of Good Omen" and is definitely a great track, you're quite right and I should have mentioned it my list of favourite tracks. I do like Black Magic Woman - a great track.
What do you think of Fleetwood Mac post PG - Kiln House excepted which still had the benefit of Danny Kirwan. In particular Rumours which does nothing for me, but seems to have outsold almost everything else on the planet. I tend to lump it with Dire Straits in the music I just don't get pile. I know lots of forum members love this kind of music and the failing is mine: am I alone in this?
All the best, Rotf