Speakers for Schubert, Shostakovich and Jah Shaka

Hi Duncan,

I know where you are coming from. The Regas can do the job, but can't quite cut it when the acale increases, music gets more complex etc. I have 2 suggestions.

I had Epos 22s in a similar system to yours for many years. These speakers are very fast, and have really nice deep bass. They make listening to dub like Jah Shaka or Mad Professor a lot of fun, and can really do muscular scale in this sort of music. However, they can't quite do the same trick with complex large scale classical music. They get a bit confused, and just don't bring over that sense of scale even if you really turn up the wick.

Recently I brought in some Briks to replace the ES22s. These guys do scale, and aren't fazed by complex symphonic works. On the other hand, give them some small group jazz and they will really shine here too. They don't go as deep as the ES22s, but the bass is punchier and more defined, so listening to dub is still lots of fun, even if it doesn't always have that subsonic rattle of plates associated with it . Best of all the Briks actually take up less usable space than the ES22s. Of course they are bigger, but since they are flush with the wall their footprint is much smaller. If you can rearrange furnishings, etc it is amazing how much they can blend into a room. Have a think about it.

Cheers, Jens

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I know Briks don't take up much floor space but I do remember them as being pretty imposing and there's not much else in the room to distract from them! I'll try and see/listen to some again as they are certainly bargain-priced these days.

Tom, the 7th Veils sound fabulous, with the qualities I'm looking for (and they look great too), but they're a bit over-budget to be honest. They'd cost more than twice the rest of my set-up.

Any other alternatives to SBL's then?

duncan

Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com

Tom,

I should have given a specific budget as this is a definite constraint, so let's say £3000, but I'd be happy if it were less. I didn't mean to give the impression the DBLs were a possibility. Sadly, they are out of the question financially and would require careful negotiation on the domestic acceptability front! I just mentioned them as one of the very few speakers I've heard that produce the kind of sound I'm after. I doubt that whatever I choose will be of DBL standard, but they represent the general direction I'd like to go.

I very much like the look of the 7th Veils, they are distinctive but their form arises from sonic design decisions rather than being 'styled'. I actually think the £8000 or thereabouts is quite reasonable for a world class transducer. My other half is looking at 'upgrading' her Piano currently and we're finding out £8K doesn't buy much...

Alex, duly noted.

Any more ideas?

duncan

Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com

Although I'm a long-time 'Brik fan and owner, if you audition a pair make sure to bring a variety of classical: vocal, chamber, solo string instruments, as well as orchestral. The one thing about 'Briks that I've never quite liked is that they seem a bit dry in the mids with some vocal and most chamber music, especially by contemporary speaker standards. Make sure it's something you can live with.

OTOH, your pre is better than mine (a 32.5), so maybe it won't be an issue in your case.

Eric

Djc,

Good evening, I do believe you have expressed an interest in My brother Speakers (meadowlarks), on the Zero Gain forum.
Tony isn't too sure if you have recieved, his email he sent you, is it possible you could send another message please, to confirm email address, he would be very greatful I feel.
The Meadowlarks are a superb speaker, I have the good fortune to own the Blue Heron 2's, and my Nap 500's positively sing through them.

Best Regards

David

Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul

David,

I've been out this evening (Excellent concert with Philharmonia orchestra - report will follow) but I'll email Tony

duncan

Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com

David,

I have musical tastes to yours. I also enjoy natural small-scale works but feel plagued by "muddle" when listening to more complex (eg, orchestral) works.

I asked one of the administrators of this forum what I might do. He suggested the following speaker options:

1) Larger Sonus Faber (I have the Minuetto).
2) ProAc Studio 100
3) Quad ESL 57
4) SL2

I haven´t been able to audition any of these yet, but suggest you try them, and would appreciate input from critical listeners.

Cheers,

Steven

quote:

---

Originally posted by Madrid:
David,

I have musical tastes to yours. I also enjoy natural small-scale works but feel plagued by "muddle" when listening to more complex (eg, orchestral) works.

I asked one of the administrators of this forum what I might do. He suggested the following speaker options:

1) Larger Sonus Faber (I have the Minuetto).
2) ProAc Studio 100
3) Quad ESL 57
4) SL2

I haven´t been able to audition any of these yet, but suggest you try them, and would appreciate input from critical listeners.

Cheers,

Steven

---

I would say that all of those speakers would excel with Classical music, the SL2 would have the advantage of excelling with everything else too.

Duncan,

I know you state your budget is £3k and at that price range the best suggestion has already been made, being the Neat MFs's.

However if you could strech a little further, I would have to say the Naim SL2's are going to be perfect for you. On classical music they are wonderful.


Regards


NB

Spendor SP100 merits a consideration

Hi Duncan,

My system is as follows : CDS2/72/Hicap/250/SP100/Naca5. I hope I'll be able to upgrade my 72 in the near future. From my experience, I would say that speakers you are after could be Spendor SP100. Before I settled on SP100, I passed through Rega Ela mk1 and Proac Response 2s.

Well, I don't know about the music of Jah Shaka, but I do know about Schubert, Shostakovich, and Malher, Bruckner and more others. SP100s excel in communicating an 'intimacy' of Schubert's sonatas or chamber music and they do also justice to a larger dimension of ochestral musics. They give you a real bass, tight and fast, coming from 12" woofer. NAP250 has a very good control of them, 135s would be even better.

My listening room (with thick curtains on the wall) is a little bit smaller than yours and there's absolutely no booming problem. SP100s are much discussed by Marco here. You can refer to his threads.

Gaby.

[This message was edited by gaby yoon on TUESDAY 11 November 2003 at 11:07.]

Thanks to all for these suggestions. I've heard Dev's system which is a great advert for SBLs and I've had an excellent demonstration of SBLs vs B&Ws vs ARCs at Graham's recently. SBLs are ahead by a nose on sound alone and obviously very good value s/h or ex-dem. They don't, quite, disappear in the set-ups I've heard so far though: you can still hear they’re a box. ARCs were very more-ish once you adjusted to the different sound but both times I've heard them now, in different rooms, they have had a mid-bass emphasis or 'resonance' (probably not the correct technical term) on certain notes that would drive me to distraction after a while. The B&Ws were non-starters for me: no involvement at all. I'll be listening to SL2s tomorrow at The Studio's naim evening, which should be interesting. A well-known HiFi forum (nothing to do with fish) contributor is doing a good promotional job on his Meadowlarks and I hope to hear them soon. I need to listen to MFS's also I suspect.

duncan

Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com

Duncan,

if you like the SBL's then the SL2's are deffinately for you. The SL2's take the best of the SBL's and make it even better.

Let us know how you get on!


Regards


NB

My wife and I’ve been down to sunny Gloucestershire and had a listen to Tony (Wadiameister) Sallis’ Meadowlark Shearwaters. Meadowlarks were a good suggestion: they are a very capable pair of speakers. In some ways the most interesting aspect to the afternoon was how my Elas sounded with Tony’s Wadia based system. Listening to Alex Reece’s Jazz Masters (K&D remix) or Renee Flemming and the London Symphony Orchestra belting out Puccini they did ‘scale’ I never knew they were capable of. The down side was a slight softness to the bass and a somewhat disengaged feeling compared to what I am used to with my naim set-up. The classic Lee Morgan ‘Sidewinder’ never quite took off as I know it can. Ian Bostridge and Julius Drake’s Schubert was lovely as ever and with a good but not exaggerated sense of acoustic. With that in mind, we switched to the Meadowlarks. Compared to the Elas they have much greater bass extension but also a slightly exaggerated mid-bass and a recessed mid-range. The effect was to place Bostridge in the next room rather than in the same one as he was with the Elas. The orchestral climaxes of the Renee Flemming disc came over much better with the Meadowlarks but with a weight to the basses that was impressive but not quite realistic. Renee was back in the orchestra rather than being at the front of the stage. Lee Morgan’s bassist was eight foot tall rather than six foot and sounded a little hung-over. The Alex Reece/Kruder and Dorfmeister was absolutely terrific with authentic chest resonating bass. Before we left, Tone insisted we listen to some ‘proper’ music at ‘realistic’ volumes. As a rocker at heart this meant some Steve Vai (?). It sounded fabulous, if you like that sort of thing, with pile-driving drums and bass and terrific rhythm. To sum up, the Shearwaters did the big picture better than the Elas but surprisingly didn’t quite match them on small-scale stuff. Both my wife and I were in complete agreement on this. The Elas really do vocals absolutely superbly and we both love this kind of music and don’t want to loose these qualities. If you like hard rock, Hip-Hop, Techno or like a ‘big’ orchestral sound then put Shearwaters very high up on your short list. The bass exaggeration is very subtle: I can imagine many people might think they were on the light side. The search for speakers that do Schubert and Shostakovich goes on! Many thanks for Tony for his hospitality and advice (even if half what he was saying went completely over my head).

duncan

Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com

Duncan,

Rega will introduce a new speaker, the R9, soonish. Perhaps they might fit your bill.

Edit: Oops, just checked the price: 2.5 k ...

[This message was edited by Markus Sauer on MONDAY 24 November 2003 at 14:23.]

djc

I read your introductory post and then saw the system in your profile. Apart from the stand the Elas are easily the weakest link in the chain so I don't think there's any need to be apologetic about changing them.

As usual, changing speakers is a minefield and you've had loads of really good suggestions so far. If you do plump for SBLs (a fine choice), try to make sure you pick up a pair that were made in the last two years or so of production. For some reason, these sounded a lot smoother but had no less impact or attack than you'd expect. Simply easier on the ear. This means you'll be buying at the dearer end of the 2nd hand market - around £1500.

Since you've said the speakers can't move, expect to set the SBLs relatively close to the corners since they like to be well apart if you are seated near the opposite wall 17 feet away.

Others have mentioned Totem. The Totem that fits in your price bracket is the Forest which is about to be updated. The standard one is also a fine speaker, even if its treble is a little 'enthusiastic' sometimes. However, the Totem that I think would really suit would be the Mani-2. This is £2910 and requires a £500 Partington dedicated stand which is back-breakingly heavy. The Mani-2 is slightly larger than usual for a standmount but it's not imposing at all. The real jewel in this speaker is that it is isobarically loaded, and yet it's got a small port. This means it has truly deep bass which is tuneful and fast. It has a wonderful sense of scale and fine detail, and it can really rock too. At the same time it has a very intimate sound when required (e.g jazz trios). I think they're fab and will probably buy a pair in the future.

Finally, rega's R9 is just around the corner. This is designed and made by the same people as your beloved Elas so it might make a great deal of sense to wait for them to come out and have a listen.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Hi Duncan. You might wnat to do a search on here of Naim IBL's. I recall someone posting on the combination of IBL's and a fast subwoofer providing many the strengths of DBL's at a fraction of the price and space. I imagine intro II's and a good sub might also work well. I don't use a sub or naim speakers so can't speak from any experience, but it seems others who admire DBL's have found the above to work very well.

Good Luck,
Garth