Naim vs Benchmark

CD5x>>>>>>>DAC1

Agreed, if you want to put CDs in it. If you want to feed it digital files the Benchmark may have the edge.

The Bechmark is quite bright sounding, but I really like the detail it gives in a headphone system. Never actually had a CD5X, but my point is that you can't use it to access computer or iPod based files, and I don't see how the Benchmark DAC is hugely worse than ths CD5X's.

I do not think the Benchmark was bright. My Benchmark was pretty stark sounding, it was as if there was no DAC there.

My Lavry DA10 sounded warmer, but both of them were bettered by the Transporter, both in detail and ease of extended listening.

I would think that the CD5X would sound better in a Naim system than all of the above. But then I have yet to try it in my system.

quote:

Originally posted by Starre:
the CD5x (got one)

Why not keep it - it is a very good CD player.
I wouldn't bother with the various DACs around now as the Naim DAC will be out soon; it has got be worth holding on.

Perhaps I shouldn't be speaking at this point but I just got a used Benchmark this week which I'm using in my office for the moment.

Initial impression is that it may be a tad more resolving than a CD5/hicap while it has slightly less bass slam--though it is actually quite tight and fast in the bass for a $1000 box. However, it has a really unpleasant edginess to it so far. It's not bright per se, and some transients are clearly cleaner. But there is some sort of fine grain over everything, and it's as if you hear the outline of the musical instruments and not the body. If it stays like this it definitely goes. My wife said turn it down when she heard it, and it was not loud. The cd5 sounds more like music.

Eric,

That was basically my impression upon hearing the stock Benchmark, although it was not through Naim electronics.

I think it is the "pro" nature of the Benchmark products that voices it as such.

Perhaps they do a great job with the 0s and 1s but are not so efficacious at the presentation/voicing aspects.

My needle drops coverted with a Benchmark ADC sound great by the way...

-Patrick

Yeah, it does have that "pro" sound. I doubt it's that they're not efficacious at voicing. I don't think they believe in voicing, being entirely measurement-driven.

I wish to add that the Benchmark does have an expansive, detailed sound that appeals in those regards, and its dryness sits it somewhere not too far from the bare CD5 (but I couldn't comment on the 5x). And who knows, maybe, depsite the beliefs of its designers, it will "warm up" or perhaps more accurately I will warm up to its sound.

Anyway, if it continues to sound like this it will hit Audiogon and I will likely seek a Lavry.

Patrick, would you say the Beresford is better than the Benchmark, or merely that it lacks that annoying "pro" sound (it reminds me also of horn-loaded speakers), making it a viable stopgap until the inevitable Naim streamer/dac/whatever.

Pro shmo. It just don't sing.

Pro audio devices are designed with maximum resolution in mind (for a price point). If you can't hear what you put down in a mix or if it is changed in any way, then some part of the mastering process is wrong. If you don't like what comes out of a pro audio DAC, blame the studio engineer and not the DAC!

Domestic audio devices have to take the middle ground, to appeal to a wider audience. The 'bright' and 'edgy' comments of pro audio devices could easily be interpreted as 'detail you haven't heard before' and 'who pulled the wool out of my ears?!' If this isn't for you, then NAIM et al do a pretty good job of making it more palatable in a wider range of domestic situations.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric Barry:

Patrick, would you say the Beresford is better than the Benchmark, or merely that it lacks that annoying "pro" sound.

I would say the Beresford, once in my system, made me eschew all other DACs I considered, given the price point.... If money was no object, and I only had a choice between the two, I would take the Benchmark.

Bmark was extremely clean. I liked it enough. Not 5 times as much as the Bford though. Not even close. But it was "finer"..... and the Bmark can be easily, but not inexpensively, modded to achieve very nice replay.

The Beresford has satisfied me immensely and is easily the best $180 ive spent in years on anything.

But when Connon at Tune Hifi in Seattle played the HDX through it, after hearing the HDX bare, I finally realized its limitation. It killed the music. Dull.

The HDX's internal DAC is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR superior to any DAC I have heard, ever (limited experience).

If the Naim DAC is to be an upgrade to the HDX, WAIT!!! Sell the Benchmark, or return it or whatever. This Naim DAC is going to be very special. VERY. *******


again - http://forums.naim-audio.com/e...452956027#1452956027

I even take a Supernait's internal DAC over Lavry or Benchies.

>> Anyway, if it continues to sound like this it will hit Audiogon and I will likely seek a Lavry.

The Lavry is warmer but not necessarily better than the Benchmark. I had both, both left me wanting for something more.

>> Patrick, would you say the Beresford is better than the Benchmark, or merely that it lacks that annoying "pro" sound

I also had the Beresford for a couple of months. It is nowhere near a match of the above 2. I have no idea what it was made for, It was no better than an average CD player, and was at about the same level as my $299 3 years old Squeezebox.

Frankly, I would be very surprised if Naim's years of experience with power supply refinement could be bettered by something like the above 3 DACs, who don't seem to pay much attention to power supply at all.

Many will disagree, but I am really surprised by all that fascination with the Lavry and Beresford in this forum, they never clicked in my humble Naim system. The Transporter, on the other hand, is a different story.....

Still waiting for the Naim DAC....

quote:

Originally posted by sonofcolin:
Pro audio devices are designed with maximum resolution in mind (for a price point). If you can't hear what you put down in a mix or if it is changed in any way, then some part of the mastering process is wrong. If you don't like what comes out of a pro audio DAC, blame the studio engineer and not the DAC!

Max res doesn't mean this. If it's wrong in any way it's inappropriate to mix on as whatever you don't like may be compensated for and sound wrong when played back on better gear. There's Mix, EQ and effects. A DAC1 could easily screw the EQ and effects because of it's character and I don't find it especially informative anyway. Just sterile. Some have mentioned it's superior USB interface and I even found it lacking from the dig out into other DACs. Try some good pro gear and you may be surprised. The idea that worse is better for this purpose is just wrong.

I know this is a Naim forum, but all this is just a load of misinformation. Naim, Wadia, Esoteric make superb CD players. However the DAC1, Lavry DA10 and Weiss DAC2 etc., are a solid taste of hi-end audio for sensible money. Look elsewhere for your system faults, because they’ll always be speakers, and ultimately how good you set-up your system in a difficult room. Oh, and don’t forget to buy the best recordings you can find.

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
I know this is a Naim forum, but all this is just a load of misinformation....Look elsewhere for your system faults, because they’ll always be speakers

Hmmm what is your non-misinformation based on, and to whom do you refer?

If JS, I am going to venture a guess that he/she, as a trade member has a nice set of speakers.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
I know this is a Naim forum, but all this is just a load of misinformation....Look elsewhere for your system faults, because they’ll always be speakers

Hmmm what is your non-misinformation based on, and to whom do you refer?

If JS, I am going to venture a guess that he/she, as a trade member has a nice set of speakers.

No, not JS, just in general. The DAC1 is near perfect if you compare to the many systems being used to reply audio.

I tried a Benchmark out once. Vinyl is my preferred choice for serious listening, but I use my DVD5 with CDs for background, & when I can't get something on vinyl. I found the Benchmark to be too lean in presentation for my taste, & I much preferred my DVD5. I don't think any hi-fi component is completely neutral no matter what some people say about lean sounding components, and I need more warmth than the Benchmark offered. The CD5X is better than my DVD5, so I would definitely try out the Benchmark in your system before considering purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by PMR:
I know this is a Naim forum, but all this is just a load of misinformation. Naim, Wadia, Esoteric make superb CD players. However the DAC1, Lavry DA10 and Weiss DAC2 etc., are a solid taste of hi-end audio for sensible money. Look elsewhere for your system faults, because they’ll always be speakers, and ultimately how good you set-up your system in a difficult room. Oh, and don’t forget to buy the best recordings you can find.

PC and me have pretty good sources LOL. I sometimes don't understand the worship for certain products but this one I just don't care for. I don't like grouping products either. The 3 you mentioned are all unique in their design and emphasis of use. Same for their sonic signiture. If they sound near alike to you, then perhaps it's not our listening arrangements that should be questioned.

quote:

Originally posted by Starre:
How does the CD5x (got one) compare to Benchmark DAC1?

I haven't heard the DAC1, but if it is anything like the Lavry DA10 it would (IMHO of course) absolutely murder the CD5x in terms of its ability to convey the musical message. Not that the CD5x is a poor CD player - it's just that it is out of its league when compared to some of the DACs made by pro audio companies like Lavry.

Pro shmo. what do they know?

Because you engineer and market a product to the people who "make" the music does not make your product superior to the people who engineer and market a product to the people who "replay" music.

Pro, Extreme, Turbo, Reference, HiDef, blah blah blah blah.

Marketing.

Know music, know joy, develop an internal reference for tuneful music replay and let that be your guide.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
PC and me have pretty good sources LOL. I sometimes don't understand the worship for certain products but this one I just don't care for. I don't like grouping products either. The 3 you mentioned are all unique in their design and emphasis of use. Same for their sonic signiture. If they sound near alike to you, then perhaps it's not our listening arrangements that should be questioned.

Likewise LOL

They certainly don't sound alike, but they certainly are good enough to be at the front-end of any system regardless of price. Not that price is any form of reference in this context.

quote:

Pro, Extreme, Turbo, Reference, HiDef, blah blah blah blah.

Marketing.

LOL - Let me see now, ah yes, the Naim Reference series :-)

Come on now CP, the pro audio guys are mere amateurs compared to high-end Hi-Fi when it comes to marketing.

Mr Tibbs

Re the Benchmark DAC-1

It requires a clean, low-jitter signal to work properly. Hook it up to a Macbook and it just effortlessly cranks out the music. Stunning!

Mr Tibbs