Americans working in Europe

Posted by: Aric on 27 January 2008

Hi All:

My question may seem rather silly, but I'm interested in whatever information forum memebers can offer about the current state of affairs of Americans working/living in Europe.

There is a probable opportunity for me to take a new job here in the States; however, it would require 6-12 months of immediate training in Europe (The Netherlands, Germany, and the UK). The new job would be a great opportunity, represent a challenging advancement early in my career, and would be an exciting departure from what I'm currently doing.

Furthermore, I've always wanted to "see" Europe, and "seeing" while working seems the perfect position at this time - e.g., the dollar getting killed vs. the euro.

Having said that, my parents visited Ireland last year and reported as a stereotype, they were soundly ignored/rejected on their journey thru the homeland. Obviously I would like to strike it off on the weekends (praise God for a resonable public transportation system!) and visit as much as possible.

My question/concern is how problematic/dangerous would it be, as an American, for me to be living and visiting in Europe right now? We in the USA know how disliked we are on the national stage, and certainly I can withstand a few glib remarks; however, if my personal safety were to be jeopardized, then that's entirely a different matter.

I would be over there with another 3-4 individuals, and FWIW, I'm 27.

Thanks for any proffered information.

Aric

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by hi fi fo fum

Think you might be O.K. just don't run up and down the streets with a 30'x40' U.S. Flag shouting "USA,USA,USA,USA we're number one"

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by u5227470736789439

I would think that you would be no less safe than Europeans in Europe.

There are always places not to go late at night etc. As for the Euopean attitude to US citizens, this has certainly got worse in the light of the current GW Bush foreign policy, and lack of diplomacy. I am sure you will find that it is very unpopular on mainland Europe, and many in Britain share the sentiment, and on occasion you may find this reflected in the attitude some may show. Not all, of course. But some people do equate the US people with the an attitude of brash, uncultured arrogance.

This may be unreasonable. Not ALL US people are like that. It stands to reason, but I have met a few that are, and they certainly got short shrift from me, once they had shown themselves to conform to the unfortunate stereotype.

With the right attitude you will get on fine.

George

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by Exiled Highlander

Aric

Interesting question.

Firstly, I'm very surprised that your parents were rejected or ignored while in Ireland they are among the most welcoming in the world usually.

I think much of what you encounter in Europe will be down to you. I don't think there is any danger as such (unless you unwittingly end up in an area where anyone, irrespective or race may be at risk - but that's no different from any large US city is it?).

IMO, this is a wonderful opportunity which you should grasp with hands. As a Scot living in the US for the last 11 years I have to say that, in general, I find many Americans to have a very myopic view of the world and I am amazed at how few own a passport and have never traveled out of the country (out of state in some cases!!).

You will be absolutely fine and your personal safety should not be an issue at all.

Assuming you don't run around as hi fi fo fum mentions and try to push the US down everyone's throat you will generally be treated well although you can expect to take some crap over GWB's foreign policy actions over his two terms in office.

Go for it. You won't regret it. Oh, and as a bonus you will find European women very different to US women - assuming you are single or course! :-)

Cheers

Jim

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by Exiled Highlander

George

You beat me to it and said almost the same thing!

Cheers

Jim

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by Ian G.

What the others have said is spot-on, don't fret it.

The biggest danger you face is not wanting to go back to the US when the time comes.

Sound like a win-win opportunity you have ahead.

Ian

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by London Lad

Aric, I live in the South of France and spend time in the UK and Spain.

I can't remember any incidents where any kind of anti American feeling has been directed at individuals.

I suspect that if you are a normal nice guy then you will be as safe and well treated as any one else.

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by Aric

Oops, that should have been "international stage."

Jim, thanks for the reply. My parents were on a guided trip throughout Ireland, and I believe were treated excellently by the guides and the local inhabitants. Mainly where they ran into problems was with the rest of the tourists, who were themselves primarily other Europeans (and quite a few Australians and New Zealanders). Apparently they and the other American couple were shunned like the plague once their identies were out.

As I'm younger I expect, not necessarily in general, to receive somewhat different treatment. The perception will be "you're not old enough to be part of the problem" and maybe we can "enlighten you" onto the rest of the world's viewpoint. Maybe, mabye not.

I thoroughly enjoyed becoming friends with a variety of international students/professors when I was in college and it was certainly an experience learning their customs and the myriad of personal philosophy's that are alien to the typical American.

I do have a passport and I am married.

Aric

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by u5227470736789439

With an open mind you will be fine! George

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by KenM

I used to work for a couple of American companies, so I'm used to having American expats around and worked with most of them very happily. You will probably find that while Europeans may not be too keen on America in general, they always make exception for the individuals.

Nowhere is this more so than in Ireland which of course, suffered at the hands of the English. I used to visit Ireland on business and I've probably been there about 40 or 50 times. The Irish seem to hate England, but welcome any individual Englishman. It' a very sophisticated and civilised attitude.

In France, they are a bit sensetive about their culture, so don't expect to be popular if you insist on living on Coke and burgers, as one of my former colleagues did.

Come over and enjoy it.
Ken

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by Howlinhounddog

quote:
Apparently they and the other American couple were shunned like the plague once their identies were out.

Just tell everyone your Canadian

Come on over and meet us, We're quirky. You'll have fun.

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by Guido Fawkes

Hi Aric

I don't think you would have any problem at all living and working in the UK. I work with several Americans who live here and none of them have ever expressed any concern about their safety. There are, of course, parts of the UK that are best avoided, but not because you're American, but because they are best avoided by everybody; I guess that's the same everywhere.

Really, you'd be made quite welcome and I'm sure you'd enjoy your stay.

ATB Rotf

Posted on: 27 January 2008 by Aric

Thanks everyone. Your information reflects what I've read elsewhere on the internet.

We'll see what happens; I'll keep everyone posted.

Best,
Aric

Posted on: 28 January 2008 by JohanR

And remember, you will be a chick magnet! European girls flock around American, Aussie and NZ guys. Probably Canadians to.

Btw, does it work the other way around if I come to the US?

JohanR

Posted on: 28 January 2008 by Exiled Highlander

Johan

Apparently it does - a European accent works wonders!....just a pity I am not 25 years old and single!!

Cheers

Jim

PS. Aric's wife won't be happy with your comment!

Posted on: 28 January 2008 by Geoff P

Aric

You mention working in the Nederlands and Germany aswell as the UK. It will be a great experience discovering how many cultural differences there are between these countries and of course France.

The big difference is that though crossing from country to country in continental europe 'just happens' pretty much like crossing state lines in the US there is no continuity of culture. Each country is unique.

The Netherlands for example is probably the easiest from a language point of view. Pretty much everybody speaks excellent english. The key dutch trait is to be forthright and say what they think about anything including each other. It can be a bit of a shock at first but outside of business meetings socially you just have to get use to saying what you think in return. If you ask 'Hey how are you doing?' to a dutchman you won't get the reply 'great' he will tell just how lousy life is.

The French are great outside of Paris and in fact the majority of French think Parisians are snooty and a pain in the ass. Try for a bit of introductory french and it will help to get you going after which a lot of french folks will speak english though nationally they decry the language and feel French should be the language of Europe.

And so on...

The fact that you are asking indicates you are thoughtfull and ready to adapt to the local conditions which is the key. Expecting things to be as convienient as they are in the states is not a good plan but I think you know that already. For example in the Netherlands the country is 'shut' on a sunday no shops open to speak of. It is not a lot different in Germany and France is pretty sporadic. The 24 hour shopping syndrome has only reached as far as the UK.

From a personal safety point of view no big dangesr just common sense needed.

regards
Geoff

Posted on: 28 January 2008 by Aric

quote:
Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
Johan

Apparently it does - a European accent works wonders!....just a pity I am not 25 years old and single!!

Cheers

Jim

PS. Aric's wife won't be happy with your comment!

Fortunately for me she doesn't venture into the realm of hifi insanity

Posted on: 29 January 2008 by JohanR

quote:
Johan

Apparently it does - a European accent works wonders!....just a pity I am not 25 years old and single!!

Cheers

Nice! Need to replan my holiday... I'm not exactly 25 myself but so aren't the girls I'm chasing either.

JohanR

Posted on: 29 January 2008 by Emil

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
Johan

Apparently it does - a European accent works wonders!....just a pity I am not 25 years old and single!!

Cheers

Jim

Women are soooooo superficial. Besides, all they want from us is sex. How disgusting

Posted on: 29 January 2008 by Aric

quote:
Originally posted by Geoff P:
Aric

You mention working in the Nederlands and Germany aswell as the UK. It will be a great experience discovering how many cultural differences there are between these countries and of course France.

The big difference is that though crossing from country to country in continental europe 'just happens' pretty much like crossing state lines in the US there is no continuity of culture. Each country is unique.

The Netherlands for example is probably the easiest from a language point of view. Pretty much everybody speaks excellent english. The key dutch trait is to be forthright and say what they think about anything including each other. It can be a bit of a shock at first but outside of business meetings socially you just have to get use to saying what you think in return. If you ask 'Hey how are you doing?' to a dutchman you won't get the reply 'great' he will tell just how lousy life is.

The French are great outside of Paris and in fact the majority of French think Parisians are snooty and a pain in the ass. Try for a bit of introductory french and it will help to get you going after which a lot of french folks will speak english though nationally they decry the language and feel French should be the language of Europe.

And so on...

The fact that you are asking indicates you are thoughtfull and ready to adapt to the local conditions which is the key. Expecting things to be as convienient as they are in the states is not a good plan but I think you know that already. For example in the Netherlands the country is 'shut' on a sunday no shops open to speak of. It is not a lot different in Germany and France is pretty sporadic. The 24 hour shopping syndrome has only reached as far as the UK.

From a personal safety point of view no big dangesr just common sense needed.

regards
Geoff

Thanks Geoff! Good point mentioning the '24 hour syndrome.' Although living in the South we still have "blue book laws" in effect and Sunday has its restrictions.

I had a Greek professor in college who said the last "true" European country (in West Europe) is Spain. For whatever reason, I believe he said they just haven't assimilated into the EU like the rest of Western Europe. Not sure if this is true and what exactly he meant by it.

I'm looking forward to visiting alot of the countryside in the respective countries. Local food, tradional customs, and the natural beauty of the landscape is what I'll be after! I'm not a real big fan of densely packed urban areas. They're fine for a visit, but I'd rather have my space.

Hopefully fast food won't exist where I'm going. Is it still true for Germans to socially drink beer at lunch while working? I shouldn't have any problems adopting that practice

Aric

Posted on: 29 January 2008 by Exiled Highlander

Emil

quote:
Women are soooooo superficial. Besides, all they want from us is sex. How disgusting

I know. so shallow.....I have tried to educate them on Hi-Fi but it just keeps coming back to "I just love your accent..."

Just a pity I have a face that looks like a bag of spanners (wrenches for you Americans on here...).

Cheers

Jim

Posted on: 17 February 2008 by Aric

I had an interview for the job this past Monday. Things went quite well, and I suspect I'll hear something in the coming weeks.

I found out that my stay would be approximately 9 months...so would take me thru the end of '08. Fifty percent of my time would be spend in Almelo, Nederlands - the rest divided between Britain and Germany.

The company is willing to move the wife and 18 month old; however, the wife isn't very willing at this point. With nothing to do during the day and the terrible twos to deal with, I suppose she is probably right. I'd really like to have them come, but I think a new job, new land and people, in addition to worrying about the wife and baby in the same might be too much. Also, it wasn't too long ago that my wife was dealing with postpartum depression, and her grandfather has recently passed away.

I'd certainly like to hear from anyone with experience on this sort of thing. If nothing else, it will soothe my conscious in not persisting to have them come.

Regards,
Aric

Posted on: 17 February 2008 by andy c

Regardless of nationality I've always found when travelling abroad that if you are polite and respectful, then you get the same back.

I'm off back to Florida again in April - the last time I was there I had a brill time, mainly from local Floridians viewing us as very approachable, subsequently getting into allsorts of interesting conversations...

Posted on: 17 February 2008 by Derek Wright

You need to negotiate for a home flights so that you can either get home or your wife to get to Europe to see you on a relatively frequent basis.

You also need to understand what type of accommodation they will pay for if you are on your own.

Also be aware that gas is many times the US price and that on a value for money basis Europe is very poor value (apart from 2000 or more years of very active history)

Posted on: 17 February 2008 by rgame666

As a Brit who has lived in Florida for the last 10 years, but last year spent 7 months in Melbourne, Australia and prior to that 2 months in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and the UK.......I would say just go for it.

I think any hassle you get will be directed at the "US" in general but not at you personally. But the only "hassle" I have encountered is good natured joking in bars and pubs (generally as soon as you open your mouth).

I love living somewhere rather than being a tourist. My wife gets fed up coz i never want to go on holiday really but give me the opportunity for 6 months somewhere interesting, and I'm all for it.

If you go and update this forum upon your return I am willing to bet you will have loved your time in Europe.

Posted on: 17 February 2008 by Aric

Derek,

Absolutely! I will certainly demand flights back to the US on a pre-determined interval. Judging by the conversation with the company, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. With respect to value, I'll be on the company's dime and besides weekend excursions, they'll foot the bill. The company (in the US) is a direct subsidiary of a very well known European company; consequently they're not losing dollars hand over foot in the exchange rate...

Rgame666,

Yes, I'm really looking forward to travel and the adventure of seeing new places. My past is littered with residence in different US states. It's just, I suppose, my only reservation is time away from the baby, as I feel like those special "firsts" I'll miss out on, etc.

At the same time it is good for the baby to be away from her parents, lest she succomb to the "responsibility" of always traipsing after her parents' shadow.

Whatever you do, you've got a great gig - what with living in UK, Florida, Melbourne, Amsterdam, etc. etc. Nice, nice indeed!

Best,
Aric