Which Ring?
Posted by: Tam on 15 July 2005
Don't like your Wagner, preferably over 4 days, then look away now!
I have, effectively, 3 rings in my collection: the Solti, the Bohm and the Levine (though I don't really count that one since it's on dvd and I rarely watch it). I've had the Solti for some years but only recently acquired the Bohm (through a death in the family). As a result, I've so far only listened to the Rheingold on that set.
For those unfamiliar, the Solti set was a ground breaking one the first stereo recording (done between '58 and '64) featuring the VPO and the likes of Nilsson (sp?) and Hotter (I think it may have been the first studio recording too, previous ones having all been live recordings, but I could be wrong, more knowledgeable members can doubtless correct me). The Solti ring also launched the career of John Culshaw and together they, to an extent, revolutionised the way opera was recorded in the studio, trying to get effects and positioning to sound as they might in the opera house (how successful they were is a matter open to debate). The Bohm ring on the other hand was recorded live at the Bayreuth festival in '67 and features many of the same singers, though Theo Adam is an inferior Wotan to Hotter.
It certainly makes for an interesting comparison with Solti. One of the reasons I'm particularly fond of the deca set is that the orchestral playing is so good (I think I'm a fan more of this aspect of Wagner than I am of the singing). What struck me immediately about Bohm was how much more prominent the voices were and possibly this is as it was meant to be heard. I'm personally unconvinced by it. As I am by the set's Wotan, Theo Adam, though the other singers are excellent. Indeed many of them are common to Solti's.
The Second thing that struck me about the Bohm set was that how fast he goes. Too fast. To my mind Rheingold has some of the most wonderful orchestral writing of the ring and some of it should be savoured a little more, but he just rides right over it. That said, I suspect that, later on in the cycle, I'll be glad of such pace (particularly in the first acts of Walkure and Siegfried) which can drag terribly. This being a live recording there's also a lot of stage noise and (which seems to have been eliminated from more recent generations of live recordings) and awful lot of audience noise; annoyingly so. But, as I say, my biggest complaint is that the orchestral playing doesn't sound as wonderful as it should (and this isn't a live/studio issue since none of the live rings I've seen have suffered this). Some of the effects are also poor: the anvils in the gap between scenes 3 and 4 lack the range and clarity of Solti's reading.
Now, a lot of these issues, though not, I think, all can be put down to the live/studio debate. While the penguin guide raves about Solti (giving him a rosette - radio 3 listeners voted it disc of the century), Alan Blythe in the Gramophone prefers Bohm, indeed he insists that a proper ring should be recorded live. Interestingly he prefers Krauss still further.
Anyway, fellow Wagnerians, do you agree disagree? I'm now wondering what other rings I might add to my collection. The Krauss (especially in light of it's budget price, £45 on amazon) is tempting. However, so is the Goodall ring, having the virtue (or curse, depending on your opinion) of being in English.
So are you a Solti man or a Bohm man, perhaps you favour Furtwangler, Barenboim, Haitink or Boulez. What ring should no collection be without?
regards,
Tam
p.s. Apologies to all Germans for not using the correct character in Böhm's name throughout.
I have, effectively, 3 rings in my collection: the Solti, the Bohm and the Levine (though I don't really count that one since it's on dvd and I rarely watch it). I've had the Solti for some years but only recently acquired the Bohm (through a death in the family). As a result, I've so far only listened to the Rheingold on that set.
For those unfamiliar, the Solti set was a ground breaking one the first stereo recording (done between '58 and '64) featuring the VPO and the likes of Nilsson (sp?) and Hotter (I think it may have been the first studio recording too, previous ones having all been live recordings, but I could be wrong, more knowledgeable members can doubtless correct me). The Solti ring also launched the career of John Culshaw and together they, to an extent, revolutionised the way opera was recorded in the studio, trying to get effects and positioning to sound as they might in the opera house (how successful they were is a matter open to debate). The Bohm ring on the other hand was recorded live at the Bayreuth festival in '67 and features many of the same singers, though Theo Adam is an inferior Wotan to Hotter.
It certainly makes for an interesting comparison with Solti. One of the reasons I'm particularly fond of the deca set is that the orchestral playing is so good (I think I'm a fan more of this aspect of Wagner than I am of the singing). What struck me immediately about Bohm was how much more prominent the voices were and possibly this is as it was meant to be heard. I'm personally unconvinced by it. As I am by the set's Wotan, Theo Adam, though the other singers are excellent. Indeed many of them are common to Solti's.
The Second thing that struck me about the Bohm set was that how fast he goes. Too fast. To my mind Rheingold has some of the most wonderful orchestral writing of the ring and some of it should be savoured a little more, but he just rides right over it. That said, I suspect that, later on in the cycle, I'll be glad of such pace (particularly in the first acts of Walkure and Siegfried) which can drag terribly. This being a live recording there's also a lot of stage noise and (which seems to have been eliminated from more recent generations of live recordings) and awful lot of audience noise; annoyingly so. But, as I say, my biggest complaint is that the orchestral playing doesn't sound as wonderful as it should (and this isn't a live/studio issue since none of the live rings I've seen have suffered this). Some of the effects are also poor: the anvils in the gap between scenes 3 and 4 lack the range and clarity of Solti's reading.
Now, a lot of these issues, though not, I think, all can be put down to the live/studio debate. While the penguin guide raves about Solti (giving him a rosette - radio 3 listeners voted it disc of the century), Alan Blythe in the Gramophone prefers Bohm, indeed he insists that a proper ring should be recorded live. Interestingly he prefers Krauss still further.
Anyway, fellow Wagnerians, do you agree disagree? I'm now wondering what other rings I might add to my collection. The Krauss (especially in light of it's budget price, £45 on amazon) is tempting. However, so is the Goodall ring, having the virtue (or curse, depending on your opinion) of being in English.
So are you a Solti man or a Bohm man, perhaps you favour Furtwangler, Barenboim, Haitink or Boulez. What ring should no collection be without?
regards,
Tam
p.s. Apologies to all Germans for not using the correct character in Böhm's name throughout.
Fredrik,
I have diverted enough of your topics from their course - so you needn't worry.
I would be very interested in the Wagner, sadly my system is currently, for reasons of extremely limited space, sans vinyl.....
regards, Tam
p.s. Incidentally, if anyone can give a good home to the Domingo/Solti Lohengrin (CD), I currently have a spare copy...
I have diverted enough of your topics from their course - so you needn't worry.
I would be very interested in the Wagner, sadly my system is currently, for reasons of extremely limited space, sans vinyl.....
regards, Tam
p.s. Incidentally, if anyone can give a good home to the Domingo/Solti Lohengrin (CD), I currently have a spare copy...
Well, having been gun-ho about the whole Radio 3 'ring in a day' effort, or as Graham rather better put it on another thread '***ing stupid', I thought I would report. First up, and perhaps this was inevitable, I don't really think I gained any special insight from listening back to back (then again, maybe if I knew the work less well I might have, or maybe if a better Ring had been selected, more anon). I didn't get too bored at any point (except in Walkure which I always find drags a little, except when Furtwangler is conducting).
So, how does Barenboim's Ring stack up. It has been suggested it is the finest 'digital Ring'. Well, it is certainly more satisfying than Levine's DVD set (which I have poured scorn on earlier in this thread) and is liveable with in a way that the Haitink isn't (for reasons outlined above), so possibly it is. But why must we have digital. Maybe it was an issue with the broadcast (or my insufficiently good aerial) but I was profoundly unimpressed by the sound and didn't find Bayreuth to be significantly better caught than was Bohm in the 60s, and with Bohm you get Windgassen and Nilsson. It is better that Keilberth, in sound terms alone, but he has a cast that is to die for. I'm not at all convinced that the sound exceeds Solti, who again has a superior (if somewhat inconsistent cast).
I also think that the modifications that were made to the orchestral canopy at Bayreuth during Barenboim's time were a mistake (I think holes were made in it) but whatever the reason, I find the orchestra sound to dominate in a way in normally doesn't in recordings from there. This is perhaps also a signal that the leads aren't quite so fine as those in my other Bayreuth recordings. Tomlinson is okay, but I prefer Morris. Anne Evans is not bad, and I much prefer her to either Marton for Haitink of Brehens for Levine. The real star is Graham Clark who plays Loge wonderfully (and also Mime in Siegfried). The set's greatest flaw, for my money, is Barenboim's conducting. The problems seems to be that he tries to do a 'Furtwangler' the problem being he isn't. I think if you want to take things like the Gods' entry to Valhalla as slowly as he chooses to, then you need to bring something very special in return (as does Knappersbusch, for example) and he doesn't quite. For my money, Haitink offers an infinitely superior reading musically (though Brunnhilde cripples his set) and this is still better than Levine (who goes slower and brings less). However, if you want a Ring, you would be better served by earlier recordings.
All of which leads me to wonder whether, if tried with a superior Ring (i.e. Solti or Knappersbusch or even Bohm- I think Krauss or Furtwangler's poor sound quality would make the task painful) the 'in a day experience' would be more illuminating. That said, I'm in no hurry to repeat it. Then again, maybe I'm just bitter my entries didn't win the competition
regards, Tam
So, how does Barenboim's Ring stack up. It has been suggested it is the finest 'digital Ring'. Well, it is certainly more satisfying than Levine's DVD set (which I have poured scorn on earlier in this thread) and is liveable with in a way that the Haitink isn't (for reasons outlined above), so possibly it is. But why must we have digital. Maybe it was an issue with the broadcast (or my insufficiently good aerial) but I was profoundly unimpressed by the sound and didn't find Bayreuth to be significantly better caught than was Bohm in the 60s, and with Bohm you get Windgassen and Nilsson. It is better that Keilberth, in sound terms alone, but he has a cast that is to die for. I'm not at all convinced that the sound exceeds Solti, who again has a superior (if somewhat inconsistent cast).
I also think that the modifications that were made to the orchestral canopy at Bayreuth during Barenboim's time were a mistake (I think holes were made in it) but whatever the reason, I find the orchestra sound to dominate in a way in normally doesn't in recordings from there. This is perhaps also a signal that the leads aren't quite so fine as those in my other Bayreuth recordings. Tomlinson is okay, but I prefer Morris. Anne Evans is not bad, and I much prefer her to either Marton for Haitink of Brehens for Levine. The real star is Graham Clark who plays Loge wonderfully (and also Mime in Siegfried). The set's greatest flaw, for my money, is Barenboim's conducting. The problems seems to be that he tries to do a 'Furtwangler' the problem being he isn't. I think if you want to take things like the Gods' entry to Valhalla as slowly as he chooses to, then you need to bring something very special in return (as does Knappersbusch, for example) and he doesn't quite. For my money, Haitink offers an infinitely superior reading musically (though Brunnhilde cripples his set) and this is still better than Levine (who goes slower and brings less). However, if you want a Ring, you would be better served by earlier recordings.
All of which leads me to wonder whether, if tried with a superior Ring (i.e. Solti or Knappersbusch or even Bohm- I think Krauss or Furtwangler's poor sound quality would make the task painful) the 'in a day experience' would be more illuminating. That said, I'm in no hurry to repeat it. Then again, maybe I'm just bitter my entries didn't win the competition
regards, Tam