Man with no Naim goes listening...

What sort of room are you putting this into? Are Naim speakers out of the question (ie no flat wall to have them against) are the B&W the only speakers you've listened to?

With that amount of wonger, I would certainly shop around, look for ex-dem stuff is a must, and certainly consider some good 2nd hand buys.

Whats the offer on the FlatCap from the shop? Im sure you'll get a mint 2nd hand HiCap for the same if not less. That wobbly base will just sound better and better.

Also, if your getting a 102, make sure you spend the 170(?) quid on a NAPSC for it, thats a must.

Good hunting.

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Looks like a CDX, 102/180, flatcap, and a pair of B and W speakers - can't remember the model, but with the Nautilus type tweeter (804? - costing about £2500) and Naim speaker cable - total cost around £8000.

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Don't buy the B&W speakers. I demmed the CDX, 102 and 180 at Grahams and also listened to a couple of different pairs of B&W speakers. For some reason Grahams are very keen on this combination of Naim and B&W, but in my opinion if you like what Naim gear does you would be better off with other speakers that they sell such as Neat, Shahinian or Naim. All the B&W speakers I have heard tend to show off the fact that Naim electronic can really do the flat [oops a typo, I meant round earth stuff like imaging] earth stuff as well, but also tend to totally kill my interest in the music.
John

[This message was edited by John Channing on MONDAY 14 May 2001 at 11:31.]

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All the B&W speakers I have heard tend to show off the fact that Naim electronic can really do the flat earth stuff as well, but also tend to totally kill my interest in the music.

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i would tend to agree with this. as i have said before, i have listened to b&w speakers twice -- both times at grahams. first time was during the cdx vs cdsii dem with 250 passive. i felt that the cdsii was NOT worth the upgrade price over cdx. and the music was not that enjoyable at all, until, out of curiosity, i asked to hear 135's in place of 250. then the music was back. unfortunately, i didnt have time to then redo the cdx vs cdsii (reall a no brainer from what i hear) --- but i suspect the conclusion would have been more emphatic then. second time around was then i was investigating a fault with my system -- useless sound -- but then my system was faulty anyway, so its hard to point a finger at the b&w's specifically.

were it not for the fact i have now taken the active path, i would arrange to dem a pair of b&w's properly.

enjoy...

ken

Definitely a NAPSC for the 102.

*Do* dem some other speakers before you buy; Jude should be happy to mix things around a bit for the second dem, where you might spread more at the front end at the expense of the speaker budget. Don't forget to listen to Credos and SBL's!

James has it covered, above. That would be quite a system.

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

Not that the B&W's are a no-no, but I think you would be better served with either a pair of SBLs or a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.8s (the latter giving you extra cash for NAPSC and Hicap).

OR: swap the 102 for an 82 and go for lower spec speakers like the new Ruark CL20. I think this would be quite a musical challenge to beat.

Regards,
Frank.

Worth considering - esp if you land a second-hand 82 for the new 102 price. And no NAPSC needed (I believe).

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

I have an identical system (less flatcap) which I recently bought from Grahams. I did listen to alot of speakers and ended up with the B&W Nautilius 804, to me they sounded alot better then anything else I listened to (much netter then 805s) and certainly more to my 'taste' then the Credos/SBL, they look fantastic too.

When you get the system delivered be sure not to have to higher expectations, the system will take a few weeks to settle down (after 3 or 4 it will start to sound good).

When it comes down to it if the system sounds good and you thinks it's good value, don't kill yourself trying to find something that is better or cheaper!

Enjoy

Matthew

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I did listen to alot of speakers and ended up with the B&W Nautilius 804, to me they sounded alot better then anything else I listened to (much netter then 805s) and certainly more to my 'taste' then the Credos/SBL

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The problem with the B&Ws is that the sound they produce is very good. Very pretty and easy to listen to, maybe a bit soft at the extremes but geneally very "nice". They also have a very clear mid-range and produce very clear sharp images even on the end of Naim gear. Unfortunately though they tend to get the things that make music interesting to listen to all wrong. I can understand why people buy the B&Ws, the Neat Elites which I compared with the B&Ws sounded tonally grey and rather shut in by comparison, but the Neat Elites got things right in the time domain that the B&Ws didn't even get close to. The B&Ws also have a classic ported speaker sound, farty bass with everything, which once you develop an ear for it you will find intolerable.
To be honest I really don't get what Grahams are up to demming the B&Ws all of the time with Naim gear they stock so many other speakers that are more suitable!
John

It kind of sits there saying "here I am, what do you make of me?!". Nice speakers always finish last!

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I've read the previous posts in this thread and can't help but respond the statements that 804's sound plasticky / don't time / farty bass / aren't musical etc.

Put simply - b**llocks.

Let's just say that maybe they aren't to some peoples taste - Personally I find Credo/SBL's to be examples of small loudspeakers which work very well, but when pushed, they sound like they are working hard, get edgy, and that's were the "exciting" sound comes from.

Not for me thank you. I am however an old fart (43 years young), and perhaps 25 years of hi-fi experience ( 20 with Naim gear), or maybe even declining mental faculties make me think this way.

Set up right - with sufficient amplifier power ( I had the 500 in my system for 2 weeks and that was pretty scary), 802's 3's and 4's are truly superb speakers. Very open and natural sounding, do timing and speed brilliantly, and just basically get out of the way of the music. If the bass is honking the room or the amps are wrong. Using 52/135 or 500 the bass from my 804's is deep and tight, tight, tight.

I believe that there are a number of closet Nautilus admirers within Naim. The fact that 3 Naim dealers that I know of, with all the experience with equipment that they have, use Nautilus for dem's kind of makes me think that they maybe know something!! Think about it.

Anyone in the market for speakers cast off pre-conceptions and listen for yourself but I would suggest minimum 82/250 as amplification for 804's and larger. They will reveal the shortcomings of less capable gear.

Colin Lorenson

Colin,

I guess that I will need to upgrade my amps, need to upgrade my, rather small, room first though!

Matthew

My own room is also a little on the small side - about 12x15. Too small for 803's which I would have bought otherwise.

Colin Lorenson

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Let's just say that maybe they aren't to some peoples taste

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agree 100 percent.

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...but when pushed, they sound like they are working hard, get edgy, and that's were the "exciting" sound comes from.

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disagree 100 percent. i get exciting sound from my sbl's at normal levels. when i push them too hard, i dont get exciting sound -- i get something else, my ears hurt, neighbours complain, and the enjoyment stops.

i would tend to agree with you on b&w's power requirements -- when i heard one of the big b&w's at grahams sometime ago, things only started making sense when we swapped the 250 for 2x135's -- it was at that point i started enjoying the cdsii dem. prior to then, there wasnt really the difference i was expecting between the cdx and cdsii.

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The fact that 3 Naim dealers that I know of, with all the experience with equipment that they have, use Nautilus for dem's kind of makes me think that they maybe know something!! Think about it.

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now lets see, i have thought about it now. i conclude that its this thing called "personal taste". it also helps if people are likely to buy them for reasons other than music. (note, i am not saying they dont play music). one naim dealer told me that one factor going for the b&w is that they look rather nice - a fashion statement i guess - almost another price of furniture in your lounge/listening room.

here is my personal taste profile, fwiw. i love the sbl's (should have bought a different finish from black, but well, never mind). i dont like the nbl's. i dont like intros/credos, etc. i loved the ibl's when i had them.

enjoy...

ken

Back from hols Dev

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Why don't you like the NBL's?

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we prefer a smaller, less dominating profile. if i wasnt married, i probably wouldnt care too much about such things, but i am, and there is "management" to worry about...

enjoy...

ken

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Not meant as a plug, but doesn't a good dealer make it easy - after all, a good product should be able to sell itself, but helping guide the customer is a skill, and I got some really good advice - Thanks Jude !

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Andy