Mana vs Fraim

Norwegian Blue is probably more appropriate.

David

I'm not getting involved as to which is better, but why is it that every time someone says they don't like mana or what it did for the sound, they get told that it probably wasn't set up right
If someone don't like it, then they don't like it. If they think it sounds bright and edgy then don't try telling them that it's fast and detailed.

Graham

Ps - Marco, this is not directed soley at you.

"I'm sure you'll agree that if it is "A)", this is entirely different to stating that Mana DOES NOT WORK with a CDS2 as it is only your opinion, after all - not fact."

In the same way that IN YOUR OPINION Mana does a good job under a CDSII, just your opinion & not a fact.

Bob.

That's why I said 'Why my CDS2 doesn't work on Mana' and not 'Why the CDS2 doesn't work on Mana. I offer only my opinion. Maybe we have different priorities when we listen, just as I have different priorities to Tony. I'm sure we listen to different music and Mana's wonderful thru the CDS2 for certain types of music, less so with others, IMVHO.

Alex

PS Please don't dangle that 'you can't set it up properly' red-herring - its gone off.

OK, but given that there are precious few 'facts' concerning hi fi & music then all findings are entirely subjective.

In your opinion "......CDS2 sound so bloody superb on Mana?", others may not share your opinion.

Bob

quote:

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Originally posted by Stallion:
Shinpad, no problem.

May I suggest you read Mark Ellis Jones's post in this thread to get an idea about Mana set up issues? And what kind of sound you get when it's not set up correctly.

Then come back to me.

Marco.

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You can suggest whatever you like Marco!
I'm not a fuckwit, and realise that there are set up issues with mana that need to be addressed for it to sound optimised, but every time the "it's not set up right" stuff is reeled out it just implies that it's not possible to have set it up right and not like it.
I'm sure that many of the people on this site who have tried mana and not liked it, are more than capable of setting it up correctly, and did so when they demoed it.

Graham

quote:

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Alex, I'm just concerned that you might have tuned into the wrong thing and hastily based your opinion on it - something I've been very guilty of in the past myself.

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or maybe he just didn't like it and you should stop acting like some pathetic god botherer and get a life.

The best post in this thread remains the first ever reply. Accurate and succint.

Anyone genuinely interested in the answer to the original question (if there is one) will have switched off long ago.

As for me, I rather like my Quadraspire actually.

Lighten up guys.

Bruce

Cliff

"quote:
P.S. did you buy the clie yet?
Cliff"

I've replied in the Padded Cell as I didn't want to interupt the Paterson/Hobbs-Mallyen invective, but now see that someone already has.

Timo

p.s. David H-M : you're quite wrong you know. About the new Sigur Ros that is.

Tim,

I'm sure I'll end up getting it.

David

Marco, perhaps one shouldn't judge Cliff too harshly. One really needs to know the background to his adopted position, and utimately that means having entered the Mana room at the Bristol show 2000...

Cliff:
I've probably done a lot less experimentation with all this than you, but one thing I have found is that those qualities posessed by a given material which communicate themselves by tapping it (ting, thunk, etc) are often a poor indicator of its performance when used as a material for supporting audio equipment. IME, very dense materials often do more musical harm than good, and very low mass materials often ring. Ringing isn't necessarily disastrous, but an ideal material, one would think, would be rigid, non-sonorous and light. On this basis, Celestion made the SL600 from Aerolam -- theoretically almost perfect, but musically not a success, I believe.

I think that Mana is at least as room-dependant as the system it supports. It always has an effect, but it may not work with the room.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

If I can't be trusted to tune Mana then you're welcome to come and tune it for me.

I know that Mana does fantastic things: It speeds up Briks, it tightens loose bass, it sweetens ragged treble, it makes an LP12 sing, it makes DVD players sound like good CD players, it makes a 100 quid Cambridge sound awesome, it makes Saras listenable, hell, it even makes ATCs sound like a grand piano, I'm just not sure its the best support for my CDS2 that's all.

I am happy to keep and use all my Mana. I prefer it to other things I've tried. But, I'm off to make my own CDS2 support . . .

Alex

....which brings me back to one of my original points which is that several people (with a lot more experience than Marco) have questioned whether the CDSII really works on Mana. Given that the isolation mechanism looks pretty similar with Fraim why should this be any better?

David

literacy for adults 101

Alex THURSDAY 18:03 :

"My honest opinion Manawise:
Under LP12 - works a treat
Under CDS2 - Doesn't work
Under DV amps - Not really sure."

Stallion FRIDAY 15:14 :

"Reading what Alex has written, in my opinion, it comes across as if he's stating more of a fact than an opinion as: "Mana doesn't work on a glass surface" suggests to me that he's made up his mind and there is no room for debate on the matter."

Marco, if you just made more of an attempt to read other people's posts, rather than hector and heckle them into admitting you're so unbelievably right, you wouldn't be making a such a mess now. You're happy with your kit, most others on this thread seem to be pretty happy with theirs, so basically there's nothing to get worked up about. (blah blah)

Herman

quote:

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David, believe me, I'm very capable of being insulting. The "wank stain" inference regarding "Sheridan" was simply a case of me being factually accurate. I realise, however, that "cockhead" would have been even more appropriate.

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maybe we should start a poll to see how many people think that that would be a far better description of your good self?

quote:

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Originally posted by Stallion:
People like him should learn to make their point without resorting to personal insults.

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So why don't you start giving the good example, Marco?

Herman

PS Please spare us the Italian bit...

quote:

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Would that get you really excited?

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not as excited as phase 4k mana.

quote:

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Originally posted by Naheed:
Fraim is Laim, get some Mana, Mana, Mana, Mana, Mana, Mana, Mana, Mana...

_naheed_

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Naheed,
You should consult a neuropsychologist. URGENT!!

Christian

I believe David's point is that Cliff was saying nothing more meaningful than stands that make one type of sound when struck are better than stands that make another type of sound when struck. Which seems to me to be every bit as nonsensical a theory as it was when Cliff first mentioned it about 3 years ago.

You might as well say Mana sounds bad because its black and another stand sounds good becuase its silver. Or that Quadraspire sounds "soft and rounded" because its curvy and made of wood and Mana sounds "hard and edgy" because its made of glass and metal. At best this is all serioulsy woolly thinking and, as Vuk once pointed out, its really a level of argument roughly equivalent to Frenology.

Matthew

quote:

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Mana sounds bad because its black and another stand sounds good becuase its silver

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My Mana's silver.

BTW Marco, although I'm trying to be eternally grateful, the 'help' you gave me with my system, unless I've missed something, was to pursuade me to buy some Pulsar Points. I have to say that I've been struggling to find a meaningful use for them ever since.

Alex

quote:

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Originally posted by Alex S.:
I have to say that I've been struggling to find a meaningful use for them ever since.

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That's your opinion, right?

Don't try to present it as a fact, or you'll wind up with a bike around your pretty li'l head.

Herman

James

Who or what is a Reference Board

Thanks

quote:

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Originally posted by David Hobbs-Mallyon:
Given that the isolation mechanism looks pretty similar with Fraim why should this be any better?

David

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David,

in my very unscientific experiments with glass & ball-bearings on Starbase (instead of the wooden Base01 platform) I have found that four bearings sound very 'Mana-ish' and three sound more 'Fraim-ish'.

cheers, Martin

Hi James

Nice to see a bit more signal in the noise at last. I've thought about trying this under my TT on the grounds of experimentation even tho I'm perfectly happy with it as it is.

Regards
Steve

I've been idiotic enough to mess about with Mana bits and pieces in the past. I've also tried it on top of other supports. I've tried boards instead of glass. I've added, taken away, added again and taken away again the fabled 3M feet. None of these things improved, in my humble opinion, on Mana set up as prescribed and tuned properly, except for the CDS2, in my very humble opinion. This CDP is the exception that proves the rule, in my very humble opinion. I think it is improved by removing a glass interface and substituting it for a Mana board, or two Base platforms (one normal, one StrataBase, as in my case); who knows, Nuance Boards may work too, but I haven't tried it so I can't offer my humble opinion.

Alex