Unitiserve/DAC/Unitiqute

Posted by: bigsplice on 05 October 2010

Hi
Is it possible to connect a serve to qute via DAC? If so would this be worthwhile or just plain daft!!??
Regards
Paul
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by pcstockton
You can use the Serve as a UPNP Server, to send files to the qute. But you certainly dont need the Serve if you use a UPNP server somewhere else.

The DAC has nothing to do with any of this.

But you are hitting on something cool. Imagine an HDX or Serve in your main system.... you could use that Serve/HDX to send files out to Qutes and/or Unitis (or any other UPNP clients) throughout your home.

-Patrick
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by gone
Welcome to NaimNet.

And what would be really cool is if the NDAC had a uPnP client inside. No wait, it must be Groundhog Day Roll Eyes
Posted on: 05 October 2010 by David Dever
Actually, you can use HDX, NS0x or UnitiServe as a source for UPnP players (e.g., NaimUniti, UnitiQute or NDX) as well as StreamNet-enabled players (NNP0x or NetStreams' SpeakerLinX) all at the same time, as well as using them for local playback via the analogue or digital outs....
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by okli
Paul, did you mean using the Qute as DAC for the serve? If I don't need UPnP streaming what are the differences in SQ comparing UPnP streaming vs. direct digital connection b/n both units? Has someone elaborated on this?

Thanks,
Ilko
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by bigsplice
quote:
Originally posted by okli:
Paul, did you mean using the Qute as DAC for the serve? If I don't need UPnP streaming what are the differences in SQ comparing UPnP streaming vs. direct digital connection b/n both units? Has someone elaborated on this?

Thanks,
Ilko

I meant, connecting serve to DAC then DAC to Qute. Just wondering if this feasable or not!?
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by pcstockton
Bigsplice,

Sure, that would work. But I am not sure how much the Qute needs the Naim DAC, but you could easily demo to see if if is worth $3500 more than going straight from the Serve to the Qute.

Then it might be worthwhile to go straight from NAS or computer to the Uniti to see if Serve is redundant.

So yes, Serve>DAC via BNC. Then analog outs of DAC into analog inputs on Uniti.

-Patrick
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by Alamanka
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
Imagine an HDX or Serve in your main system.... you could use that Serve/HDX to send files out to Qutes and/or Unitis (or any other UPNP clients) throughout your home.

-Patrick


Naim apparently calls this the "UnitiSystem".
See the flyer on the Naiminc web site.

http://www.naiminc.com/wp-en/?cat=4&paged=2

http://naiminc.com/Product_Lit...Flyer_16pp_A4_LR.pdf
Posted on: 06 October 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
Imagine an HDX or Serve in your main system.... you could use that Serve/HDX to send files out to Qutes and/or Unitis (or any other UPNP clients) throughout your home.

-Patrick


Naim apparently calls this the "UnitiSystem".
See the flyer on the Naiminc web site.

http://www.naiminc.com/wp-en/?cat=4&paged=2

http://naiminc.com/Product_Lit...Flyer_16pp_A4_LR.pdf
I'm just wrapping up a review of this system, and it's a stunner. The Serve and the Qute together form a combination that is very hard to beat, requires nothing more than Cat 5 cable and a router for hook-up and comes at a very attractive price. Playback of the Serve through the Qute is to my ears superior when connected by cable through a router than when connected by the digital out with the DC1 cable (donning flameproof suit). The system is truly plug & play, and forms a great platform should the upgrade bug eventually strike, for example, along the lines of the original post.

Jan
Reviewer, Son & Image Magazine
Posted on: 07 October 2010 by Peter_RN
quote:
(donning flameproof suit).

Hi Jan....... Looks like you may have got away with that one. Smile- Peter
Posted on: 07 October 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Thanks for stirring it up Roll Eyes Anyone else done this comparison? (Serve to Qute via ethernet cable vs Serve to Qute via DC1). Too bad the nDAC has no RJ45 port Smile Now that would be fun...

Jan
Posted on: 07 October 2010 by connon price
I have. My finding are same as yours. I chalk it up to removing the S/PDIF interface when using UPnP to deliver music files into the heart of the Qute.
Posted on: 07 October 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by connon price:
I have. My finding are same as yours. I chalk it up to removing the S/PDIF interface when using UPnP to deliver music files into the heart of the Qute.


Where does that leave the 'Serve-SuperNait combo?
Posted on: 08 October 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:
Too bad the nDAC has no RJ45 port Smile Now that would be fun...

Please ... no ... don't start that debate AGAIN!!!!!! Eek Roll Eyes

quote:
Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Where does that leave the 'Serve-SuperNait combo?

Is the DAC in the SuperNAIT superior to the DAC in the Qute?
Posted on: 08 October 2010 by David Dever
quote:
Is the DAC in the SuperNAIT superior to the DAC in the Qute?

No - better SPDIF receiver in the Qute, though the circuits are very similar.
Posted on: 08 October 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
quote:
Is the DAC in the SuperNAIT superior to the DAC in the Qute?

No - better SPDIF receiver in the Qute, though the circuits are very similar.

So UnitiQute plus Poweramp should be superior to SuperNait?
Posted on: 08 October 2010 by David Dever
I didn't say that–it's not that easy a comparison.
Posted on: 10 October 2010 by bigsplice
quote:
Originally posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
Imagine an HDX or Serve in your main system.... you could use that Serve/HDX to send files out to Qutes and/or Unitis (or any other UPNP clients) throughout your home.

-Patrick


Naim apparently calls this the "UnitiSystem".
See the flyer on the Naiminc web site.

http://www.naiminc.com/wp-en/?cat=4&paged=2

http://naiminc.com/Product_Lit...Flyer_16pp_A4_LR.pdf
I'm just wrapping up a review of this system, and it's a stunner. The Serve and the Qute together form a combination that is very hard to beat, requires nothing more than Cat 5 cable and a router for hook-up and comes at a very attractive price. Playback of the Serve through the Qute is to my ears superior when connected by cable through a router than when connected by the digital out with the DC1 cable (donning flameproof suit). The system is truly plug & play, and forms a great platform should the upgrade bug eventually strike, for example, along the lines of the original post.

Jan
Reviewer, Son & Image Magazine

Hi Jan
Could you explain in detail about connecting qute to serve for best results!?
regards
Paul
Posted on: 11 October 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Hi Paul,

IMO : For best results, the Qute is connected to a router via Ethernet cable, then the router to the Serve via more of the same cable. In UPnP mode, the Qute recognizes the server, and that's it.

(not a very detailed response, but there's really not much more to it than that)

Jan
Posted on: 11 October 2010 by Simon-in-Suffolk
quote:
Originally posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:
Hi Paul,

IMO : For best results, the Qute is connected to a router via Ethernet cable, then the router to the Serve via more of the same cable. In UPnP mode, the Qute recognizes the server, and that's it.

(not a very detailed response, but there's really not much more to it than that)

Jan

Jan, I think you mean a Switch and not a Router. Using routers - if you truly mean a router - can cause all sorts of technical IP issues with uPnP. Routers and Switches do completely different things. It's just worth pointing out as some people who don't understand IP networks could get totally confused.
Simon
Posted on: 11 October 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Thanks Simon. Why does Naim not clarify this ?

from the Uniti section of the website :

We imagine that in most family homes the UnitiServe, the only component that needs a wired connection (through a regular Cat5e network cable) will be positioned fairly close to the wireless network router, perhaps in the study or home-office.

and from the UnitiServe reference manual :

3.2.3 Network Socket

Connect to your network router here

Frown Frown ?
Posted on: 11 October 2010 by pcstockton
If I am not incorrect.... i think Simon meant using more than one router can cause problems???
Posted on: 11 October 2010 by Alamanka
In order to stream internet radio with the Qute, then it is necessary to use a router and a modem.

To stream from only from an internal server, then I presume a switch could work?

Question: in that case would it possible to simply use a crossover cable between the two units (no switch)?
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Simon-in-Suffolk
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:
In order to stream internet radio with the Qute, then it is necessary to use a router and a modem.

To stream from only from an internal server, then I presume a switch could work?

Question: in that case would it possible to simply use a crossover cable between the two units (no switch)?

Jan and Alamanka, without getting too technical the following applies:
1) to connect your home LAN to the Internet (WAN) you must have a router. Ie addresses and port pairs on one network are routed to other address port pairs on the other. Therefore if you have access to the Internet via your LAN you must have a router. Therefore to receive or send streamed audio radio/video/data to the Internet you must use a router.
2) The UPnP protocol uses a system of device discovery. This works by using broadcast IP packets. Broadcasts only work within a single network (unless special measures are taken). Therefore as routers connect different networks together the broadcasts would be dropped and therefore the UPnP devices on the different networks won't see each other.
3) Switches (and hubs) connect devices on the same network. That also means broadcast discovery packets are switched to all devices on the same network, which means UPnP and Apple streaming devices can see each other.
4) Regrettably some consumer literature over simplifies by using incorrect terms. Ie many consumer ADSL Internet routers have a 4 interface switch built in for the LAN. This might be referred to as a 'router'. So although that is correct in as far ad it's the primary function connecting the LAN to the Internet, however in as far the LAN and UPnP it's primary function is a switch. This technical distinction becomes important when debugging or designing the home netwrk, wireless networks such that streaming devices can see each other. A UPnP streamer and receiver only need a switch to work and not a router. A PC/Mac directly connected to the Internet only needs to use a router to receive Internet radio.

I hope that helps....

And regarding the crossover cable yes connecting the following devices together without going through a switch or hub requires a cross over cable:
Router ( proper router)
Receiver
Server
PC


Simon
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Very clear Simon, and helpful.

Thank you !

Jan
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by bigsplice
quote:
Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
quote:
Originally posted by Alamanka:
In order to stream internet radio with the Qute, then it is necessary to use a router and a modem.

To stream from only from an internal server, then I presume a switch could work?

Question: in that case would it possible to simply use a crossover cable between the two units (no switch)?

Jan and Alamanka, without getting too technical the following applies:
1) to connect your home LAN to the Internet (WAN) you must have a router. Ie addresses and port pairs on one network are routed to other address port pairs on the other. Therefore if you have access to the Internet via your LAN you must have a router. Therefore to receive or send streamed audio radio/video/data to the Internet you must use a router.
2) The UPnP protocol uses a system of device discovery. This works by using broadcast IP packets. Broadcasts only work within a single network (unless special measures are taken). Therefore as routers connect different networks together the broadcasts would be dropped and therefore the UPnP devices on the different networks won't see each other.
3) Switches (and hubs) connect devices on the same network. That also means broadcast discovery packets are switched to all devices on the same network, which means UPnP and Apple streaming devices can see each other.
4) Regrettably some consumer literature over simplifies by using incorrect terms. Ie many consumer ADSL Internet routers have a 4 interface switch built in for the LAN. This might be referred to as a 'router'. So although that is correct in as far ad it's the primary function connecting the LAN to the Internet, however in as far the LAN and UPnP it's primary function is a switch. This technical distinction becomes important when debugging or designing the home netwrk, wireless networks such that streaming devices can see each other. A UPnP streamer and receiver only need a switch to work and not a router. A PC/Mac directly connected to the Internet only needs to use a router to receive Internet radio.

I hope that helps....

And regarding the crossover cable yes connecting the following devices together without going through a switch or hub requires a cross over cable:
Router ( proper router)
Receiver
Server
PC


Simon

OMG! im confused! I just want to connect a serve to a qute. Naim say by dig out/dig in but posts here say different. I obviously need to have full function of both serve and qute. Advice welcome!!