Unitiserve/DAC/Unitiqute

Posted by: bigsplice on 05 October 2010

Hi
Is it possible to connect a serve to qute via DAC? If so would this be worthwhile or just plain daft!!??
Regards
Paul
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Eloise
UnitiServe SPDIF ouput to UnitiQute SPDIF input will work, but you will not get full functionality of the UnitiQute - imagine (maybe) connecting a DVD player to the UnitiQute: you get sound but the UnitiQute can't control the DVD player.

If you connect the two via Cat5 (via a switch or direct with crossover cable) then the UnitiQute's full functionality is usable: I.e. The Qute can control the music playing.

Eloise
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by bigsplice
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
UnitiServe SPDIF ouput to UnitiQute SPDIF input will work, but you will not get full functionality of the UnitiQute - imagine (maybe) connecting a DVD player to the UnitiQute: you get sound but the UnitiQute can't control the DVD player.

If you connect the two via Cat5 (via a switch or direct with crossover cable) then the UnitiQute's full functionality is usable: I.e. The Qute can control the music playing.

Eloise

seems odd naim recommended dig out/dig in then!? If I wanted to connect serve to qute via nDAC (dig in /dig out)would i need to connect both units to internet?
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by bigsplice:
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
UnitiServe SPDIF ouput to UnitiQute SPDIF input will work, but you will not get full functionality of the UnitiQute - imagine (maybe) connecting a DVD player to the UnitiQute: you get sound but the UnitiQute can't control the DVD player.

If you connect the two via Cat5 (via a switch or direct with crossover cable) then the UnitiQute's full functionality is usable: I.e. The Qute can control the music playing.

Eloise

seems odd naim recommended dig out/dig in then!? If I wanted to connect serve to qute via nDAC (dig in /dig out)would i need to connect both units to internet?

I'm not sure where you've seen Naim recommending dig out of UnitiServe into dig in of UnitiQute but if it's there then I would (humbly) suggest Naim are in error suggesting this (for most situations).

If both units are connected to the Internet then (unless you have multiple ADSL / cable connections: unlikely) you are also linking each unit to the other. Ideally such connections should be made via cable though the UnitiQute does have wireless built in. If your Internet router is not located near your HiFi, then run a single cable and buy a "Hub" or "Switch" (cost around £50) and connect both to that along side the long cable back to your router.

Your (Naim) dealer should be able to help though unfortunately many wouldn't know a router from a switch from a storage heater!

Eloise
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by bigsplice
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
quote:
Originally posted by bigsplice:
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
UnitiServe SPDIF ouput to UnitiQute SPDIF input will work, but you will not get full functionality of the UnitiQute - imagine (maybe) connecting a DVD player to the UnitiQute: you get sound but the UnitiQute can't control the DVD player.

If you connect the two via Cat5 (via a switch or direct with crossover cable) then the UnitiQute's full functionality is usable: I.e. The Qute can control the music playing.

Eloise

seems odd naim recommended dig out/dig in then!? If I wanted to connect serve to qute via nDAC (dig in /dig out)would i need to connect both units to internet?

I'm not sure where you've seen Naim recommending dig out of UnitiServe into dig in of UnitiQute but if it's there then I would (humbly) suggest Naim are in error suggesting this (for most situations).

If both units are connected to the Internet then (unless you have multiple ADSL / cable connections: unlikely) you are also linking each unit to the other. Ideally such connections should be made via cable though the UnitiQute does have wireless built in. If your Internet router is not located near your HiFi, then run a single cable and buy a "Hub" or "Switch" (cost around £50) and connect both to that along side the long cable back to your router.

Your (Naim) dealer should be able to help though unfortunately many wouldn't know a router from a switch from a storage heater!

Eloise

Eloise
Its becoming clearer slowly! lol! advice elsewhere suggests its best to have seperate network for music streamer (away from pc's, game consoles etc. im using Virgin me
dia so i guess i can install second router then connect this to hub/switch and in turn connect to qute and serve?!
My naim dealer would say "read the manual" no help at all!!

Paul
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Paul, if you used wired Ethernet with one or more switches (in this case not hubs) then you can in nearly most situations mix and match the traffic on the network without problems. If you use wireless networks for your computer data and media streaming then if you have a busy network or stream high bandwidth audio it is better to have different wireless networks. But this is probably somewhat involved unless you understand concepts of wireless LANs. Therefore if your network is busy it is best to go for switched wired Ethernet.
Simon
(typed from an iPhone so sorry for errors)
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by bigsplice
quote:
Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
Paul, if you used wired Ethernet with one or more switches (in this case not hubs) then you can in nearly most situations mix and match the traffic on the network without problems. If you use wireless networks for your computer data and media streaming then if you have a busy network or stream high bandwidth audio it is better to have different wireless networks. But this is probably somewhat involved unless you understand concepts of wireless LANs. Therefore if your network is busy it is best to go for switched wired Ethernet.
Simon
(typed from an iPhone so sorry for errors)

Simon
My home network is wireless with my unitiqute connected wired to rear of router. I want to set up seperate wired network exclusively for using qute qnd poss unitiserve. Wireless network has 5 computers and 2 games consoles connected. Just want to maximise SQ.
Paul
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by bigsplice:
quote:
Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
Paul, if you used wired Ethernet with one or more switches (in this case not hubs) then you can in nearly most situations mix and match the traffic on the network without problems. If you use wireless networks for your computer data and media streaming then if you have a busy network or stream high bandwidth audio it is better to have different wireless networks. But this is probably somewhat involved unless you understand concepts of wireless LANs. Therefore if your network is busy it is best to go for switched wired Ethernet.
Simon
(typed from an iPhone so sorry for errors)

Simon
My home network is wireless with my unitiqute connected wired to rear of router. I want to set up seperate wired network exclusively for using qute qnd poss unitiserve. Wireless network has 5 computers and 2 games consoles connected. Just want to maximise SQ.
Paul

Paul - I think we're getting to the heart of you setup requirements.

Some of the problems / confusions do stem from the fact that network engineers will use terms in a very specific ways, where as the general public - even people with quite good computer skills - use those same terms in slightly more general terms.

While you could set up a completely separate network for your audio system keeping the UPnP components (i.e. UnitiServe and UnitiQute) completely separate this is is unneeded in the domestic environment and over complicates the situation.

My advise would be to by a Netgear FS105 Prosafe 5 Port Fast Ethernet Unmanaged Switch* - this costs £25 from Amazon and will sit close to your Naim rack. Other devices exist but I've always found Netgear reliable for SoHo (Small Office / Home Office) devices. As I read it you already have a cable from your existing internet router to the UnitiQute - remove this and plug it into port 5 of the Netgear. Then simply connect a network (Cat5e) cable from another port on the Netgear to each of the UnitiQute and UnitiServe. This will connect both devices to each other and to the internet allowing full functionality.

Eloise

*Definitions: a switch is a specific form of hub which allows traffic between devices to be controlled so that information sent by device 1 to device 2 is sent only to device 2: in a hub all traffic is sent to all devices.
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by okli
Hi Eloise,

Do you know the speed of the Ethernet card in Qute - strange, but I can't find any reference in the manual. Is it Gigabit capable? Reading your suggestion for Netgear switch I saw there are Gigabit switches as well and thought to get one of them, but not sure if the Qute supports Gigabit Ethernet?

TIA,
Ilko
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by okli:
Hi Eloise,

Do you know the speed of the Ethernet card in Qute - strange, but I can't find any reference in the manual. Is it Gigabit capable? Reading your suggestion for Netgear switch I saw there are Gigabit switches as well and thought to get one of them, but not sure if the Qute supports Gigabit Ethernet?

I think it's Fast Ethernet (100mbps). I'm sure I read it somewhere in the forums.

Eloise
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by okli
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
quote:
Originally posted by okli:
Hi Eloise,

Do you know the speed of the Ethernet card in Qute - strange, but I can't find any reference in the manual. Is it Gigabit capable? Reading your suggestion for Netgear switch I saw there are Gigabit switches as well and thought to get one of them, but not sure if the Qute supports Gigabit Ethernet?

I think it's Fast Ethernet (100mbps). I'm sure I read it somewhere in the forums.

Eloise


Hmm, still can't find anything about this - someone here who can provide this info?
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by realhifi
Go with the GS105. Not much more at all and then it will never be your bottleneck.
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by okli
quote:
Originally posted by realhifi:
Go with the GS105. Not much more at all and then it will never be your bottleneck.


Always the same advice from the sales dept. ;-), but honestly I really would like to know what's the NIC inside the EUR 2k unit?
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Frank Abela
Why? Even 10mbps would be enough to do the job. I'd prefer naim to spend the money on the audio part of the unit rather than the networking part of it provided the networking side is adequate for the job!
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by David Dever
The NaimUniti, UnitiQute and NDX streaming module use 100Mbit Fast Ethernet, though you will get better performance if you use a non-blocking managed switch (Linksys SRW series is good bang for buck).
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
It's all very simple really :

Posted on: 13 October 2010 by BigH47
Jeez I'd hate to see a COMPLICATED network! Smile
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
you will get better performance if you use a non-blocking managed switch (Linksys SRW series is good bang for buck).

What advantage would a consumer see buying a managed switch over an unmanaged one? Except an emptier wallet?!

The Netgear FS105 IS non-blocking.

Eloise
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Tog
All that to get your Linn Akurate to stream from your Mac.

Tog
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by David Dever
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
you will get better performance if you use a non-blocking managed switch (Linksys SRW series is good bang for buck).

What advantage would a consumer see buying a managed switch over an unmanaged one? Except an emptier wallet?!

The Netgear FS105 IS non-blocking.

Eloise

Considering the problems you Brits seem to have with dodgy home routers, you can shape the traffic hitting the router and segment the network, among other advantages for the skilled user.
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
you will get better performance if you use a non-blocking managed switch (Linksys SRW series is good bang for buck).

What advantage would a consumer see buying a managed switch over an unmanaged one? Except an emptier wallet?!

The Netgear FS105 IS non-blocking.

Eloise

Considering the problems you Brits seem to have with dodgy home routers, you can shape the traffic hitting the router and segment the network, among other advantages for the skilled user.

Though very few users are that skilled... I would suspect most IT professionals wouldn't have the right skills.

Out of interest... Do ISPs in USA usually supply routers free or do customers have to buy their own?

Eloise
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Plinko
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
Though very few users are that skilled... I would suspect most IT professionals wouldn't have the right skills.
Out of interest... Do ISPs in USA usually supply routers free or do customers have to buy their own?
Eloise


They supply the router/switch (wireless capable) for free and if you take Verizon as an example, they are not the best one can use for home network switching. If I go to a streamed solution, I plan to try a switch into my vendor provided router/switch to switch the home media traffic as I will probably run out of ports. I will probably go with David Dever's excellent suggestion or ask the network geeks at work on which product to choose.
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by bigsplice
quote:
Originally posted by Eloise:
quote:
Originally posted by bigsplice:
quote:
Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
Paul, if you used wired Ethernet with one or more switches (in this case not hubs) then you can in nearly most situations mix and match the traffic on the network without problems. If you use wireless networks for your computer data and media streaming then if you have a busy network or stream high bandwidth audio it is better to have different wireless networks. But this is probably somewhat involved unless you understand concepts of wireless LANs. Therefore if your network is busy it is best to go for switched wired Ethernet.
Simon
(typed from an iPhone so sorry for errors)

Simon
My home network is wireless with my unitiqute connected wired to rear of router. I want to set up seperate wired network exclusively for using qute qnd poss unitiserve. Wireless network has 5 computers and 2 games consoles connected. Just want to maximise SQ.
Paul

Paul - I think we're getting to the heart of you setup requirements.

Some of the problems / confusions do stem from the fact that network engineers will use terms in a very specific ways, where as the general public - even people with quite good computer skills - use those same terms in slightly more general terms.

While you could set up a completely separate network for your audio system keeping the UPnP components (i.e. UnitiServe and UnitiQute) completely separate this is is unneeded in the domestic environment and over complicates the situation.

My advise would be to by a Netgear FS105 Prosafe 5 Port Fast Ethernet Unmanaged Switch* - this costs £25 from Amazon and will sit close to your Naim rack. Other devices exist but I've always found Netgear reliable for SoHo (Small Office / Home Office) devices. As I read it you already have a cable from your existing internet router to the UnitiQute - remove this and plug it into port 5 of the Netgear. Then simply connect a network (Cat5e) cable from another port on the Netgear to each of the UnitiQute and UnitiServe. This will connect both devices to each other and to the internet allowing full functionality.

Eloise

*Definitions: a switch is a specific form of hub which allows traffic between devices to be controlled so that information sent by device 1 to device 2 is sent only to device 2: in a hub all traffic is sent to all devices.

As naim recommend to connect serve to qute via dig out (serve)dig in (qute) for best SQ im gonna start here and connect wirelessly for iradio. will experiment with different configs of network router/switch etc. Seems my nDAC redundent for the forseeable future Frown!!!
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:
Do ISPs in USA usually supply routers free or do customers have to buy their own

MOST ISPs will RENT ($10 a month) you a modem and wireless router. They are usually shite.

Anyone with any amount of experience, and the desire to own not rent, will buy their own.

With the price of cable tv and internet service these days, ANY way to make the bill a little smaller is worthwhile.

I shudder to think what one would get for FREE. I guess it would be something like your BT hubs which are apparently worthless.

-Patrick
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by okli
Oh well, calm down now :-)... non-blocking switch would provide some advantages, theoretically. As for the 10 mbit NIC in year 2010 it is something from the museum and if I have to pay 20 eur more to have gigabit card I (and I think a lot of the users here) will pay for this. This is something like the RS 232 interface - Frank, have you tried to buy a RS 232 cable or a notebook with such an interface nowadays? I can assure you that some of the young guys here in the big electronic markets have never heard of this interface (I doubt they were born at the times it was standard). So, I can't complain about the audio part, but in the "computer-aware" part there is still a lot to improve IMHO...
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Plinko
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
MOST ISPs will RENT ($10 a month) you a modem and wireless router. They are usually shite.

Anyone with any amount of experience, and the desire to own not rent, will buy their own.
-Patrick


Who rents a router or uses their own? I know zero people who do this. In the USA, Comcast, Verizon, etc...all provide the router and charge a flat fee for internet service, 50mbps or some lesser speed. There is no monthly fee for the router. For Verizon, it is either DLink or Actiontec. Vast majority of people in the US use broadband and only small percent use Dial-up...dial up being where a user supplied modem would be required.