Unitiserve/DAC/Unitiqute

quote:

In the USA, Comcast, Verizon, etc...all provide the router and charge a flat fee for internet service

Not so my friend. I have never had Verizon (thankfully) so I cannot speak to that, but Comcast doesn't provide anything for free. And NONE that I know of provide a router.

Comcast will charge you for the modem if you dont have your own.

Paul...

I didn't realise you had a Naim DAC... So, if I have it right, you have a Naim DAC and a UnitiQute and looking to get a UnitiServe to rip and "serve" your music? Do you also have any Naim (or other) Pre amp & Power amp or Integrated?

I can see a variety of ways you could set the UnitiServe, UnitiQute and DAC up.

1) connect U'Serve and U'Qute to same network using Cat5. Use the U'Serve as ripper and UPnP server and the U'Qute as UPnP renderer, controlled via nStream app or U'Qute's remote/display panel. No connection would be made using SPDIF. Buying a switch and cables to try this setup is going to cost less than the cost of a mid level (e.g. Chord or QED) SPDIF BNC to RCA cable.
The "traditional" / "recommended" setup IMO.

2) connect U'Serve to SPDIF input on DAC. Connect analogue out of DAC to analogue input of U'Qute. Control via nServe app for music selection, etc and U'Qute's remote for volume etc. Connect the U'Serve via ethernet to allow metadata (track names, etc) download. Connect U'Qute via Ethernet (or Wireless) for Internet radio.
This setup basically uses UnitiQute as integrated amp and Internet radio.

3) as 2 above but use pre & power (or integrated) instead of U'Qute. Get a Logitech Squeezebox Touch for Internet radio or use a Sky+ box for radio.
The "classic" setup for U'Serve and DAC.

4) as 2 above but use U'Serve SPDIF output to input of U'Qute.
Possible but (to my mind) not really recommended setup. (1) offers, at least theoretical, advantages of avoiding SPDIF interface.

5) can't think of a number 5.

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by bigsplice:
Simon
My home network is wireless with my unitiqute connected wired to rear of router. I want to set up seperate wired network exclusively for using qute qnd poss unitiserve. Wireless network has 5 computers and 2 games consoles connected. Just want to maximise SQ.
Paul

Hi Paul - ok you might be closer that you think on a good way forward.

To be sure you could advise the model of your ADSL modem/router/switch/Wireless AP - it sounds they might be all combined.

But I understand your general LAN traffic is going via wireless - and you are connecting the Qute and Unitiserve via wired ethernet - I am guessing your combi switch router has 4 LAN interface ports? Well in which case that is the switch part of the device and if you connect to the Qute with a standard ethernet cable to one port and the UnitiServe with another standard ethernet cable to the other port you have a system that will switch between the two and you should be fine.
Becasue you are switching and using standard cables - you will be getting the maximum bandwidth throughput on those links (technically your switched links will be working full duplex -and forinterest wireless can only be ever half duplex - ie only one device can send or receive at a time on the wireless segement). Assuming your switch is working/designed correctly - apart from those discovery packets I spoke about earlier - the traffic will pass between the Quite and UnitServe and will not appear on the wireless part of the network and vica versa - therefore you will not be having contention or collissions - so your games machine can hammer your wirless link - and you should have no fear of dropouts on your Qute / Unitiserve switched link.
In side your combi switch/router you will probably find that actually the router and the Wireless accesspoint are conenct to seperate ports on the switch - along with the what I am guessing the 4 extenal ports. So this means your games machines on your wireless network can switch through to the internet router part of your device quite independently to the streaming traffic switched between your Qute and UnitiServe. It sounds like you should have a good home networking solution!!!

But please let me know the device you are using.

Simon

Jan

I like your diagram - . You can see why as a Network Engineer I like to stick with CD Players...

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
The NaimUniti, UnitiQute and NDX streaming module use 100Mbit Fast Ethernet, though you will get better performance if you use a non-blocking managed switch (Linksys SRW series is good bang for buck).

Frank - having looked at the spec of the said switch - one what grounds do you say you will get a better performance for Naim streaming? All that is required here is the most basic of switches, and they will work perfectly. Or did I miss a smiley somewhere??

Simon

quote:

Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

quote:

Originally posted by bigsplice:
Simon
My home network is wireless with my unitiqute connected wired to rear of router. I want to set up seperate wired network exclusively for using qute qnd poss unitiserve. Wireless network has 5 computers and 2 games consoles connected. Just want to maximise SQ.
Paul

Hi Paul - ok you might be closer that you think on a good way forward.

To be sure you could advise the model of your ADSL modem/router/switch/Wireless AP - it sounds they might be all combined.

But I understand your general LAN traffic is going via wireless - and you are connecting the Qute and Unitiserve via wired ethernet - I am guessing your combi switch router has 4 LAN interface ports? Well in which case that is the switch part of the device and if you connect to the Qute with a standard ethernet cable to one port and the UnitiServe with another standard ethernet cable to the other port you have a system that will switch between the two and you should be fine.
Becasue you are switching and using standard cables - you will be getting the maximum bandwidth throughput on those links (technically your switched links will be working full duplex -and forinterest wireless can only be ever half duplex - ie only one device can send or receive at a time on the wireless segement). Assuming your switch is working/designed correctly - apart from those discovery packets I spoke about earlier - the traffic will pass between the Quite and UnitServe and will not appear on the wireless part of the network and vica versa - therefore you will not be having contention or collissions - so your games machine can hammer your wirless link - and you should have no fear of dropouts on your Qute / Unitiserve switched link.
In side your combi switch/router you will probably find that actually the router and the Wireless accesspoint are conenct to seperate ports on the switch - along with the what I am guessing the 4 extenal ports. So this means your games machines on your wireless network can switch through to the internet router part of your device quite independently to the streaming traffic switched between your Qute and UnitiServe. It sounds like you should have a good home networking solution!!!

But please let me know the device you are using.

Simon

Simon
Im currently using virgin media (50meg)for my internet connection. Virgin supply a modem and seperate router (Netgear N type). PC's are wireless and cabled ports are currently occupied by 1x XBOX,NAS,QUTE.If im understanding your post correctly i could use 4th port to connect serve and this should be ok!?
I didn't realise you had a Naim DAC... So, if I have it right, you have a Naim DAC and a UnitiQute and looking to get a UnitiServe to rip and "serve" your music? Do you also have any Naim (or other) Pre amp & Power amp or Integrated?

I can see a variety of ways you could set the UnitiServe, UnitiQute and DAC up.

1) connect U'Serve and U'Qute to same network using Cat5. Use the U'Serve as ripper and UPnP server and the U'Qute as UPnP renderer, controlled via nStream app or U'Qute's remote/display panel. No connection would be made using SPDIF. Buying a switch and cables to try this setup is going to cost less than the cost of a mid level (e.g. Chord or QED) SPDIF BNC to RCA cable.
The "traditional" / "recommended" setup IMO.

2) connect U'Serve to SPDIF input on DAC. Connect analogue out of DAC to analogue input of U'Qute. Control via nServe app for music selection, etc and U'Qute's remote for volume etc. Connect the U'Serve via ethernet to allow metadata (track names, etc) download. Connect U'Qute via Ethernet (or Wireless) for Internet radio.
This setup basically uses UnitiQute as integrated amp and Internet radio.

3) as 2 above but use pre & power (or integrated) instead of U'Qute. Get a Logitech Squeezebox Touch for Internet radio or use a Sky+ box for radio.
The "classic" setup for U'Serve and DAC.

4) as 2 above but use U'Serve SPDIF output to input of U'Qute.
Possible but (to my mind) not really recommended setup. (1) offers, at least theoretical, advantages of avoiding SPDIF interface.

5) can't think of a number 5.

Eloise

Eloise
Wonderful assessment of options! Im thinking that the nDAC is not needed with the serve/qute combo. Think option 1 is the way forward, gonna test both cat6 and dig out/in options but elsewhere opinion suggests that cat6 is preferred route.
Paul

quote:

Originally posted by bigsplice:
[Simon
Im currently using virgin media (50meg)for my internet connection. Virgin supply a modem and seperate router (Netgear N type). PC's are wireless and cabled ports are currently occupied by 1x XBOX,NAS,QUTE.If im understanding your post correctly i could use 4th port to connect serve and this should be ok!?
I didn't realise you had a Naim DAC... So, if I have it right, you have a Naim DAC and a UnitiQute and looking to get a UnitiServe to rip and "serve" your music? Do you also have any Naim (or other) Pre amp & Power amp or Integrated?

Paul

Paul, without having a model number I can't be definite but its almost certain the four adapter ports are for a switch (and not a hub).

Therefore you are correct connecting the servie to the fourth port - you will have a switched full duplex ethernet connection between Qute and the Serve - and that is the important bit in all of this - since any other activity on your home network that is happenening outside of your Serve or Qute won't interfere with that connection.
From a streaming or bandwidth world the key items to check for are switched connections and full duplex connections. You will be almost certainly be then ok. Hubs and Wireless connections are half duplex which means only one device can use the network at any time with frequent collissions - which as you can imageine can make the flow of data somewhat jerky. CAn be fine for normal data - less so for high bandwidth or medium to high bandwidth streaming.

I don't have a nDac - although I have audioned it several times with differnt sources etc, and for *me* it has always sounded a little un nautural - when compared with my CDX2/XPS. I have now just bought a secondhand CDS3 and will be setting that up this weekend when back home......
Connecting Qute to the nDAC via the SPDIF should pose no problemss at all. (SPDIF is totally seperate and a completely differnet technology from Ethernet type connections of course)

Simon

quote:

Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

quote:

Originally posted by bigsplice:
Im currently using virgin media (50meg)for my internet connection. Virgin supply a modem and seperate router (Netgear N type).

Paul, without having a model number I can't be definite but its almost certain the four adapter ports are for a switch (and not a hub).

Simon ... why do you assume that the Netgear N router has a built in switch and not just a hub? From a quick look at Netgear's website it's only the Gigabit N-routers which specifically say they are switches, and then not all of them. I wouldn't have though Virgin would supply anything more than a basic device unless it's something you specifically have to pay for.

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

quote:

Originally posted by bigsplice:
[Simon
Im currently using virgin media (50meg)for my internet connection. Virgin supply a modem and seperate router (Netgear N type). PC's are wireless and cabled ports are currently occupied by 1x XBOX,NAS,QUTE.If im understanding your post correctly i could use 4th port to connect serve and this should be ok!?
I didn't realise you had a Naim DAC... So, if I have it right, you have a Naim DAC and a UnitiQute and looking to get a UnitiServe to rip and "serve" your music? Do you also have any Naim (or other) Pre amp & Power amp or Integrated?

Paul

Paul, without having a model number I can't be definite but its almost certain the four adapter ports are for a switch (and not a hub).

Therefore you are correct connecting the servie to the fourth port - you will have a switched full duplex ethernet connection between Qute and the Serve - and that is the important bit in all of this - since any other activity on your home network that is happenening outside of your Serve or Qute won't interfere with that connection.
From a streaming or bandwidth world the key items to check for are switched connections and full duplex connections. You will be almost certainly be then ok. Hubs and Wireless connections are half duplex which means only one device can use the network at any time with frequent collissions - which as you can imageine can make the flow of data somewhat jerky. CAn be fine for normal data - less so for high bandwidth or medium to high bandwidth streaming.

I don't have a nDac - although I have audioned it several times with differnt sources etc, and for *me* it has always sounded a little un nautural - when compared with my CDX2/XPS. I have now just bought a secondhand CDS3 and will be setting that up this weekend when back home......
Connecting Qute to the nDAC via the SPDIF should pose no problemss at all. (SPDIF is totally seperate and a completely differnet technology from Ethernet type connections of course)

Simon

Simon
http://www.netgear.co.uk/wnr2000.php
Paul

Eloise and Paul,

Firstly, I am assuming Switch as opposed to Hub because most modern LAN equipment uses switching now because the components/chips are so much cheaper and the performance of switches over hubs is so much superior in terms of LAN throughput.

I have looked at the user manual of Paul's Netgear, and although the ports are just referred to as LAN ports the giveaway is a screen shot for the 'Show Statistics' in Figure 6-3. This shows the LAN port 1 as 1000mbps/Full, meaning it is a full duplex connection. Hubs by their nature can only support half duplex, therefore according to that table those Netgear LAN ports are definitely switched.
Paul that device should work very well for you.
Simon

quote:

Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
Firstly, I am assuming Switch as opposed to Hub because most modern LAN equipment uses switching now because the components/chips are so much cheaper and the performance of switches over hubs is so much superior in terms of LAN throughput.

I have looked at the user manual of Paul's Netgear, and although the ports are just referred to as LAN ports the giveaway is a screen shot for the 'Show Statistics' in Figure 6-3. This shows the LAN port 1 as 1000mbps/Full, meaning it is a full duplex connection. Hubs by their nature can only support half duplex, therefore according to that table those Netgear LAN ports are definitely switched.

Simon ... this is getting a bit off topic though I think you are making some assumptions here...

First, yes Switch components are cheep but hub components are even cheeper. You seam to be assuming (in first paragraph) that because it doesn't say it's a hub, that they will have implemented a switch. Personally I am assuming that because Netgear aren't advertising that it is a switch (and some of the Netgear routers do state that in their spec) that it's a hub.

Secondly, yes I see the Figure 6-3 you are referring to: but "100Mbps/Full" could just be referring to the detected ability of the network card/device in the computer. I've seen 3Com managed hubs which reported the same, though as you say hubs by their nature are half-duplex.

At the end of the day I think 2 network cables from UnitiQute and UnitiServe back to the router will work fine for Paul.

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
At the end of the day I think 2 network cables from UnitiQute and UnitiServe back to the router will work fine for Paul.

Eloise

Elosie, by all means use that approach for yourself, but you appear to be implying that somehow Paul shouldn't need to understand how to make his home network supporting his Naim equioment work reliably and effectively using the guidance given and just hope for the best - is that not rather patronizing? I suggest Paul reads the posts and makes his own mind up - the network concepts raised here are extremely basic - but with home multimedia networks is important to get right if you don't want suprises/disappointment either now or later on.

Standard Cat5 cables to a switch - whether standalone or switch built in to a router is fine.

Anything else you are potentially asking for trouble - mind you bad network advice given to my customers by others keeps me in a job fixing that bad advice.

Simon

quote:

Originally posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
At the end of the day I think 2 network cables from UnitiQute and UnitiServe back to the router will [most likely] work fine for Paul.

Eloise, by all means use that approach for yourself, but you appear to be implying that somehow Paul shouldn't need to understand how to make his home network supporting his Naim equioment work reliably and effectively using the guidance given and just hope for the best - is that not rather patronizing? I suggest Paul reads the posts and makes his own mind up - the network concepts raised here are extremely basic - but with home multimedia networks is important to get right if you don't want surprises / disappointment either now or later on.

I actually missed two important words from the sentence you quoted of mine (which in the above quote I've corrected). In the same way connecting a UnitiServe via Ethernet cable and using the UnitiQute via wireless Ethernet will most likely work fine.

However I agree, a little understanding of some basic networking concepts will go a long way here ... though it's my experience that most even experiences IT professionals unless they actuall are involved with networking would struggle to describe why a switch is different to a hub. Really when buying a £2000 UnitiServe and £1350 UnitiQute the onus should be on the dealer to ensure you are able to connect them effectively and understanding should be primarily with the dealer without the end user having to trawl through internet forums for this information - dealers being able to offer some third party networking equipment which they have tested in simple setups for example.

quote:

Standard Cat5 cables to a switch - whether standalone or switch built in to a router is fine.

I totally agree with you here ... my DISAGREEMENT is over your interpretation of whether the Netgear Router has a built in switch or if it is purely a hub. I contend that this is not clear from the information Netgear provide...

quote:

Anything else you are potentially asking for trouble - mind you bad network advice given to my customers by others keeps me in a job fixing that bad advice.

I think maybe "asking for trouble" is overstating it a little - but similar to my advise in other areas to newbies, try to eliminate the possibilities for troubles before you begin. In this case where possible wire the server and UPnP rendered together using a switch, don't rely on wireless.

Eloise

Eloise,
Indeed I said was an assumption based on the evidence...
However I am conscious many reading this can't follow or have given up.

Therefore I found this video that explains the difference between switches, hubs and routers in layman terms, far better than I can do - please excuse the American pronunciation of router...
Hub, switch, router video
Simon

Hi
Im guessing that setting up a seperate network (add 2nd router) is not gonna gain me anything. Enjoying qute a great deal and jury out on unitiserve (Justifying £2k) Jury still out on DAC too. very reluctant to get rid of DAC as convinced i will need some day soon. As the unitiserve is gonna be v difficult to demo i will probably wait to see more reviews before committing.Want to try serve/dac/qute to satisfy my curiosity before say bye to DAC!
regards
Paul

quote:

Originally posted by bigsplice:
Hi
Im guessing that setting up a seperate network (add 2nd router) is not gonna gain me anything. Enjoying qute a great deal and jury out on unitiserve (Justifying £2k) Jury still out on DAC too. very reluctant to get rid of DAC as convinced i will need some day soon. As the unitiserve is gonna be v difficult to demo i will probably wait to see more reviews before committing.Want to try serve/dac/qute to satisfy my curiosity before say bye to DAC!
regards
Paul

Paul correct - use the switch on the router you should be fine - I can't be 100% sure its a switch but I am fairly certain it is....
Well my approach is after auditioning many devices (HDX, Qute - which I liked, nDAC) was to get a secondhand CDS3 - however I am very interested to hear the NDX when it comes out as I suspect I will like it. Alastair at Signals heard a pre production model at Naim towers and was very impressed by how it sounded - and he usually has a good ear.

Simon