HD-DVD Nearly Here

allan
theres rumours that the 140gb harddrive space(300gb / 160 for sky+use /140 for sky use) is for hdmovie downloads on release day which would delete themselves after a set amount of time/watches
if its true ,no more going to the cinema , mine gets installed on 22 may

neil

well have to have a listen /watch of each others
systems soon ( when u get the toshiba)

If anyone wants to see HD satellite broadcasts (1080p) on a hi-res D-ILA projector we're running a Naim open day on the 19th May in Berkshire. See header posting under HiFi Corner "555 open day 19th May...."

I have to agree with manu (and others) on this issue. The mass-market will decide which format is dominant. There is a massive installed base of DVD players, DVD game consoles, and computer DVD drives. DVD's are ubiquitous and cheap.

I can sympathise with techno-excitement (I am a techno junky myself sometimes) but often the realities outweigh the "promise" that new tech offers.

Aside from that, the acid test will be in comparative tests between HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and good old upscaled DVD. Not to mention what works together in practice and what doesn't (compatibility issues mentioned above).

In the same way that we have seen a continuance in mining the full potential out of Red-Book CD performance...DVD is still on a roll. It's easy to forget that the pixel resolution is only part of the issue. The initial chip-sets for the HD players will be capable but not likely the peak potential of the format...especially at the cheaper end of the scale. In the same way that a 4-cylinder engine can out-perform a V-6 with the right engineering...electronic "engines" run very differently within the same format. In other words, quality of design and engineering still matters.

I'm more excited about the Naim scaler card on the brink of release - and not just because we are going to be selling them! - as that will be my next video upgrade.

It would be nice if Naim was less closed mouthed about the scalar card!

It is a shame the electronics industry does not copy the computing world and set up a standards body. As long as individual manufacturers try and 'set the standard' to generate licencing income we will see a repitition of these turf wars; in which we the buying public lose, in more ways than one.

Martin

i agree with martin, what could possibly be on the scaler card that isnt already out there via another manufacturer, why all the secrecy

and how long before we see a much more capable processor with preferably room correctin and auto set up

come on guys give us the info

regards

neil

DVD5 scaling card ? But ... what are you talking about ?



More seriously, about BR and DVD-HD, I would say : wait until the war is over ... It is possible that this war kills both standards. And as Chris wrote, I am not that sure that top upscalers would not be as good as HD players.
SD DVDs have nice long days with 1080p50/60hz upscalers.

I have had HDTV since January 2000. For about the last couple of years my viewing habits are summed up by this statement, "If it is not in HDTV it is not worth watching" ... NTSC PQ is rubbish! There is more than enough programming in HDTV to keep me satisfied (I watch on average about 4-5 hours of HDTV daily). I have watched numerous movies in HDTV ... the PQ is clearly superior to that from the best quality DVD's. As for scaling ... you can only do so much with NTSC ... it is a horrible format! The only reason that I would buy a scaler would be to upconvert 720P and 1080i to 1080P.

So, I am very anxious to get into high definition DVD's. However, I will not do so until the disks begin appearing in the rental stores. If HiDef DVD's do not start appearing in the rental stores in large numbers, both formats will fail miserably in the general market place just like D-VHS did. The players will only be bought by the Videophiles and Audiophiles. Also, if the number of movies that are made available in HDTV through satellite and cable providers (Pay for View) increases Blu-Ray and HD DVD will fail ... they won't be needed. I have watched several recent movies in HDTV that were OAR with DD5.1 sound.

From what I have read from those that have done a comparison, Blu-Ray PQ is clearly superior to HD DVD. Blu-Ray players output 1080P, which will be viewable on the new 1080P plasmas and LCDs. The PQ should blow away even broadcast HDTV ... and it will not be compressed like broadcast HDTV. So, I hope that we do not have a repeat of the battle of VHS vs. Beta where the inferior format won. However, Blu-Ray has a couple of things going for it ... more movies are in Sony's control through the studios they own and they have PS3.

quote:

However, Blu-Ray has a couple of things going for it ... more movies are in Sony's control through the studios they own and they have PS3.

It's the PS3 that will win the format war for Sony. More of these will be sold than standalone HD/BR DVD players put together.

Rackkit

I disagree, I bought an xbox 360 and so far the machine has been a let down. Its failed throughout the world, as will the Playstation 3 one factor and one factor only wins any format war. Software. DVDa and SACD were slow to release the software and advertising for both was very poor. unless the software from br and hdd is better than DVD and the extra cost is worth it the public just don't buy into it. there are less than 1% of the people in the world into hi-fi home cinema. I advise all to sit back and wait to see which if any takes off. My money is with DVD as we have still not found the full potential of this format

Neil W

I totally agree with you its time Naim gave something back to the customers and let us know what if anything is planned for the future. How Its two years on and still no scaler card. Still no AV3 the AV2 is now six years old its time for something new in this area.

Neill

Have you not heard....'We're off to go work on the scaler card now.' is in fact a code term used in the software dev group.

Usually it can be heard around 12.30 on a Friday and can roughly be translated for 'We're off down the pub for a long lunch now, anyone fancy joining us ?'

Roy.

quote:

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
Rackkit ... My money is with DVD as we have still not found the full potential of this format

Neil W

Images from the DVD5 look good on a small screen up to about 42" (I have Sony KV36XBR400 which gives a 33" 16x9 picture). Once the image gets much larger the picture quality quickly deteriorates. I have yet to see picture on a large screen that is acceptable to my eyes on even the most expensive systems costing over $100,000. It looks like crap compared to an HD image even with a scaler (garbage in, garbage out).

The marketing for HDTV in North America has sucked right from the beginning. The industry did little to clear up the confusion over HDTV/Digital Television. And there continues to be a problem with the cost of the satellite/cable boxes. HDTV displays are selling well, but not the boxes. This problem could be solved with the new sets that require the decorder circuitry for HDTV cable to be built in.

The future will definitely be HDTV ... SDTV will die soon as analog television is legislated out of existance in 2009. SD DVD's days are numbered, whether it is replaced by Blu-Ray, HD DVD or some other technology. Downloadable HD movies onto hard disks or memory cards is a definite possiblity for the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Neill Ferguson:
Rackkit

there are less than 1% of the people in the world into hi-fi home cinema.

Neill

But a much higher percent are into gaming and they get the dual benefit of using their machines for playing hi-def movies as well. It'll be easier to sell the public the idea of higher quality pictures than a better sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Underhill:

At least with DVDA I am now burning my own DVDAs!

Martin

With.....?

quote:

Originally posted by neil w:
i agree with martin, what could possibly be on the scaler card that isnt already out there via another manufacturer, why all the secrecy

and how long before we see a much more capable processor with preferably room correctin and auto set up

come on guys give us the info

regards

neil

mail info@.....what info in particular?

I'm with Neill and will be sitting very tight.

I think that the gap between SD and HD may be lower in the UK due to PAL.

Either way the penetration of Home Cinema systems is remarkably low amongst my friends...let alone Hi-Fi!

Having been singed by Hi-Def audio I have NO intention of looking at this until I see some true market penetration.

In the meanwhile an upscale card will allow me to get more from my many DVDs - depending on price of course.....and an upgrade to my plasma, so that gives me a couple of years!

Martin

Please take a look at these screen shots: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668631&page=2&pp=30
Here you can easily seen much more details/resolution on HD-DVD.


Thomas

thomas

Different things for different people, I don't have a 12 foot screen in my living room and I am unlikely unless I get six numbers to have one either. I am well happy with My boring old 37" plasma, my friend has a 50" plasma and uses the dvd5 and is totally blown away with the picture.

If you have cash to burn go ahead but, I just don't want to end up the same way as i did with the three DVDA's and the 5 SACDs I have sitting on a shelve unused.

You Talk about the gaming world but the problem with the Xbox 360 has been the games so far they are very poor. Even the playstation 2 games seem to have went down hill very quickly. So unless like I say the software is better then even that industry is slowing down. Game the largest UK game stores posted a profit warning last year due to sales dropping very quickly. However there recent figure show they made up the cash with xbox 360 sales and PSP sales and are hoping for good sales figures from sales of playstation 3

All I have to say its a strange world we live in when the winner in any format war is the i-pod. I belive the future will be with DVD hard drivers Chord electronics have just released one. I expect to see more, it seems to by the way the world is moving towards down loads.

If the scaler card can improve the picture on my modest screen I will be happy, I will stick with Naim I have faith in the brand and wait the long wait that is Naim for new products to arrive after all we are on the Naim forum and are all fans of the brand we have our complaints about long they take to do stuff but its always worth the wait as we end up raving on about how right they got it.

So in the meantime I will sit back in my home with my home cinema and enjoy better sound and picture than I can at the local cinema I'll pause it from time to time to get another cold bud. I'll read the forum and sit back with faith that the scaler card will make it all even better, Adam can you add a feature for it to chill the beer as well !!!!!!!!

Neill

Neill,

If you've got unused DVDAs you can always send them to me....I'll even give you my one SA disk, Bat Out of Hell!

M

CNet has listed 10 ways that HD DVD falls short!

1. Initial HD-DVDs are just rehashes of the existing DVDs
2. Extra features not in high-def
3. Player doesn't do enough
4. No 1080p output
5. Component video can be flagged
6. Wacky audio
7. HDMI hiccups
8. Sluggish performance
9. The smaller the display, the smaller the difference
10. A dearth of discs

Sounds like a piece of junk to me! I certainly will not be waiting in line to buy one.

For the complete review ...
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6510291-1.html?tag=nl.e702

Here is what one could read on IMBD news of the 20th of April :

Critics Unimpressed with HD DVD

Consumer electronics writers have begun to weigh in on the new HD DVD players distributed by Toshiba this week, and most are unimpressed. Several cite an intolerably long boot-up period, a confusing menu system, and incompatible sound. But nearly all express disappointment in the picture. On smaller sets, the writers agree, the difference between HD DVD and a conventional DVD is virtually undetectable. "Bottom line is that HD DVD is great, but will you notice?" asks Ben Drawbaugh on HDBeat.com. Writing in the Los Angeles Times David Colker remarked that on larger screens he could detect a subtle difference. He added: "I tested my perceptions by switching between the two formats. I asked a colleague to close his eyes while I chose a version, then had him open them and guess: DVD or HD DVD? He got it right only about 75% of the time. So, yes, it's better. But don't expect the dramatic leap in quality that came with the transition from VHS to DVDs in the 1990s."

And about DVD5'scaling card I have one question : When ?

I only hope that those who have had the chance to compare the PQ of Blu-ray and HD DVD are right when they say Blu-ray is markably better.

HD-DVD players have been available for a couple of weeks now. For anybody remotely interested in real world experience and discussion of the new format then probably the most definitive place to go would be AVS Forum. Visit the Blu-ray and HD-DVD areas.

Be warned though that the bitter rivalry between the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camps is extreme and unnerving. Rumour, propaganda, FUD are just some of the milder weapons of mass destruction in an embarrasing mud slinging match of unbelievable proportion. However, having followed that forum for some time it's not too difficult to distinguish the fanboys from the veteran posters. There are a number of posters there with reference systems, who've owned D-VHS for years, will own players of both formats and offer verdicts based on personal finding. I'm talking about people like darinp, thebland and Art Sonneborn.

It would be interesting if members here on the Naim forum start getting these things in their hands and give some balanced views. Especially if we can get comparisons with some top end SD DVD players like the DVD5 or FMJ Arcams.

Allan

quote:

Be warned though that the bitter rivalry between the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camps

Similar to SACD vs DVDA?

I wonder if there was also rivalry between Betamax and VHS? But at least there was a winner, even if it was the technically least proficient.

Martin

Arguably...the acuity of eyesight in the beholder (reviewers included) is more significant to appreciating the differences at this point.

In other words... are there enough people out there who can see a difference to make either hi-res format a commercial success?

It would certainly be wasted on me! I find natural colour more important than resolution, and in that way I prefer CRT to LCD, though some projectors get a nice picture to look at.

My white cane is already booked, from the best supplier! Fredrik