Feeding 82 with a Super
Posted by: Laxton on 15 February 2001
Regards
Laxton
The Supercap does improve the 82 significantely-there is no question. If you have an offer for a supercap s/h go for it because they do not appear that frequently on the s/h market.
If you would buy it new however I would suggest that you get an XPS instead which is roughly the same price as the SC. The improvement will be much more obvious. Then get a s/h Hicap which should be easy to find and not hitting too hard on your wallet.
At the end you probably want to get both anyway i.e. SC and XPS; the question is only in which order.
My vote is XPS first.
Hoe that helps
Fran
Peter,
To be frank, i've not really checked the prices of the xps/supercap yet. The main problem that i'm facing now is that the 180's seem to be struggling with the 22's to a certain extent, but bad enough to dampen my listening. It sounds ok with simple pieces, but when more complex pieces come on at higher volume levels(sane!), the music suddenly becomes glaring and harsh. I do not know whether this factor is caused by the CDX or the 82 without a cap. But so far, i've heard the CDX perform really well in an 102/hicap/250 system with little hint of grain and harshness that i am experiencing now.
I really do not know how well the XPS/super works in the context of my system as i don't think a home dem is likely here. Moreover, i've heard mixed comments about the cdx/xps here. So in the end, it might just boil down to a game of advice, or worse russian roulette. I seriously hope that my next upgrade will cure most of the problems that i am experiencing now, without too much money of course.
I've also come to notice that the 22's are a b**** to setup correctly and communal living doesn't help things either. Therefore, massive tweaks like lining the whole of the room or elevating cables are out. Or is it due to the fact that they are power hungry speakers. Currently, i have the chance to secure a deal for a PMC FB1 for about 500GBP. The offer seems tempting, but once again i wonder whether could the problem be due to the speakers.
Regards
Laxton
It depends somewhat on what you mean by 'harsh and glaring'.
If it means 'congested', a PSU is likely to help.
If it means 'compressed', maybe you need a better amp.
And if 'harsh and glaring' means 'congested AND compressed' - then it's PSU AND new amp.
Of course, if the fix is just improving the amp, you'll need a PSU, too, if you stay with Naim. Might as well get out the checkbook.
Regards.
Phil
The problem is due to a bit of both. I really do not know the capabilities of the 180 when driving the 22's, but if i'm not wrong, Peter used to drive his 22's with a 180 without any problems. Now the decision is whether to go for a super or an xps or hicap. I really do not know whether a hicap will help solve most of the problem. Most probably i'll make a trip down to the dealer's sometime this week. Hopefully, he has a spare cap lying around.
I'm working towards a 102/hicap/250/sbl character. Although i don't mind something leaning towards active sbl's fronted with cds2/52/250's.
Regards
Laxton
An XPS would bring massive musical benefits in all parts of the musical construct. A supercap will do similar things on more than one source and you may be able to drive your speakers as loudly as before with less trouble. But you will still have the same basic problem - the 180 hasn't got the reserves of current that the ES22's are asking for.
So - in my view - you should consider buying a hicap/250 or hicap/135s (ouch). If your longer term view is to go to a 52, then the supercap remains the better option than the XPS since it frees up the 180 a little. Is there any way you can afford trading in your 180 for a 250 at the same time (bringing you to 82/super/250)? That would be a significantly balanced solution. Your next step would definitely be the XPS after that.
Regards,
Frank.
Why don't you change the ES22's with SBL's. By adding more amps your are trying to fix the shortcomings of the speaker, I reckon you would get a much better result with the SBL's, then I would get an XPS and then CDS2.
Your amps are fine IMHO.
Dev
source first all the way.
quote:
My current system is cdx/82/180/es22. I am considering adding a super to the 82. What kind of quantitative improvements can i expect from it? Is the cdx good enough for it?
I had a friend with a system identical to yours, except he was using the Tukans instead of the ES22s. After a brief honeymoon phase, he became quickly disenchanted with the way it would always sound on edge and the rather imprecise and discoherent sound at anything above modest volumes. I went round and had a listen myself and indeed while it could sound great of some material, it totally fell apart on others. You could almost wince in anticipation of the louder passages, just knowing what was going to happen.
Fortunately I had brought along with me a spare Hicap, and once inserted there was an enormous improvement in poise and finesse- nevermind the ability to play much MUCH louder with little sense of strain. The degree of improvement was much greater than the additional cost of the Hicap, considering the initial outlay. Oh, I also brought along supercaps, 135s, 52s etc, and even without the XPS, the system readily showed the chasm that exists between the 82/Hicap and the 82/Supercap and the league-of-its own 52.
Juicing an 82 from a poweramp should only be considered a stopgap....without an outboard *cap it is being strangled. Would you enjoy listening to June Tabor if she had a pair of hands squeezing firmly on her throat when she sang?? Ditto a naked 82.
Athough there is much discussion about which speaker this, and which speaker that.... virtually ANY speaker has the ability of sounding good to great when fronted with excellent electronics. Believe me, I once lived with a pair of $40 JC Penny speakers hooked up to multi-kilobucks worth of electronics while my speakers were being updated, and the overall results were far superior to many far, far more expensive speakers with driven with ho-hum electronics.
Ron
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