DAC v CS3

quote:

Originally posted by BigJim:
What is the typical Naim DAC set-up that is broadly considered equal to a CDS3 + XPS?

Hi Jim. Equal in what sense ?

I don't know about broadly. My HDX/nDAC/XPS2 was in my opinion at or around CDS3 level for my musical enjoyment needs. As with 99% of things written in places like this, it's in the ear of the beholder and highly subjective. You have to trust your own ears and go your own way.

The DAC and the CDS 3 have got a different voicing... Even with a XPS 2 the DAC has got a different voicing than a CDS 3/XPS 2... I do like my DAC very much!

quote:

broadly considered equal to a CDS3 + XPS?

nDAC/555ps/Powerline/Hiline???

I haven't heard that combination but I am guessing it competes.

Current spec HDX/DAC/555PS is the closest Naim have ever got to the experience of a live performance. Easily surpasses CDS3 and at least on par with the CD555 on CD rips and exceeds with Hires.

quote:

Originally posted by Jonn:
Current spec HDX/DAC/555PS is the closest Naim have ever got to the experience of a live performance. Easily surpasses CDS3 and at least on par with the CD555 on CD rips and exceeds with Hires.

Well I think it's down to the listener. There seems to be several on these forums, me included that don't get on with the SPDIF driven nDAC and feel the closest to the 'live' sound with Naim is with some of the combined transport/DAC CDPs. It does appear to be a subjective matter. We all appear to hear thing differently and get different cues from the sound.
Simon

Could be affected by what it's plugged into.My listening is based on 552 and active DBLs. Also careful set-up re cable dressing and SNAXO tuning. NDAC took about 3 months to run-in, prior to that sound was detailed but artificial sounding.

quote:

Current spec HDX/DAC/555PS Easily surpasses CDS3 and at least on par with the CD555

Not even close to either IME in certain respects. I actually found a basic Rega saturn a more engaging and tuneful listen.

OP should go and listen to all the options himself and use his own ears. As simon says the DAC seems to divide opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by John R.:
The DAC and the CDS 3 have got a different voicing...

I love the organic, fluid and beguiling sonic signature of the CDS3. It puts me in mind of a good analogue source.

Does this mean the nDAC is more 'wam, bam, thank you ma'am'? (like the CDX2)

Lefty

nDAC reveals all. If music is fluid and beguiling that's what you get, if wam bam that's what you get. So "sound signature" is revealing of whatever is put through it, good or bad. Addition of 555ps adds extra body and structure helping to locate musicians in the soundstage.

OK, so today I auditioned the CDS3 + XPS and DAC + XPS + CDX2.

In short both about as good as each other, but sounded quite different. The CDS3 seemed more laid back and mellow, the CDX more in your face.

I preferred the CDS3 solution, but the DAC does offer more flexibility.

I'm going to demo the DAC at home over a weekend and see where that takes us.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty:

quote:

Originally posted by John R.:
The DAC and the CDS 3 have got a different voicing...

I love the organic, fluid and beguiling sonic signature of the CDS3. It puts me in mind of a good analogue source.

Does this mean the nDAC is more 'wam, bam, thank you ma'am'? (like the CDX2)

Lefty

Yes, it's quite a forceful sound. Dynamic and detailed for sure (more information than a CDS3 with XPS imo) but too aggressive for my personal musical tastes. It also has a prominent 3d soundstage effect which places everything quite differently compared to something like a CDS3, CDS2. Some people like this whilst I think for others it gets in the way.

quote:

Originally posted by rich2513:

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty:

quote:

Originally posted by John R.:
The DAC and the CDS 3 have got a different voicing...

I love the organic, fluid and beguiling sonic signature of the CDS3. It puts me in mind of a good analogue source.

Does this mean the nDAC is more 'wam, bam, thank you ma'am'? (like the CDX2)

Lefty

Yes, it's quite a forceful sound. Dynamic and detailed for sure (more information than a CDS3 with XPS imo) but too aggressive for my personal musical tastes.

My experience using the nDAC is : detailed and aggressive when fed with a Micromega Stage 2 as transport, detailed and beguiling but no goosebumps when fed with a Bryston BCD-1 as transport, and ..... absolute bliss when fed with the UnitiServe. The DAC is extremely revealing of the source.

So, when you describe the *sound* of your DACs, please indicate what is upstream. The source and DAC have to be considered as a system.

With the UnitiServe, all of the attributes that got me into Naim in the first place are back, with a vengeance ! I feel that I've finally reached the end of the road in my source upgrade (famous last words...). The sound has a wonderful analogue-like organic ease, flow and warmth.

I still have a CDS2/XPS/HiLine plugged in for comparison, but frankly, there is no comparison.

The UnitiServe / Dac combo (used without HiLine or XPS) is simply better in every possible way. The superb user interface, and accessibility to my record collection, in addition to the distribution possibilities offered by the server, are icing on the cake.

My 2 cents.

Jan

some weeks ago i asked naim what would sound best: "my current CDS2 + 555PS" or "Unitserve + nDCAC + 555PS".

the answer ... CDS2. i was advised to go 252 -> 552 as it will be the biggest upgrade i will ever make.

quote:

some weeks ago i asked naim what would sound best

It is definitely best to just take someone's word for it before dropping $20K.

quote:

As simon says the DAC seems to divide opinion.

Yes, DAC owners like it. For some weird reason, those with expensive CD players don't.

I will listen to those that own/owned both, any day of the week.

-Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

As simon says the DAC seems to divide opinion.

Yes, DAC owners like it. For some weird reason, those with expensive CD players don't.

I will listen to those that own/owned both, any day of the week.

-Patrick

I own both (I assume the CDS2 still counts as an expensive CD player). I've lusted after the CDS3, but now that I can get CDS3 sound plus all the benefits of a server... no contest. Long live the UnitiServe!

Yes, the DAC divides opinion, but how much is being falsely attributed to the DAC when it may well be the source that is the cause ? If posters do not specify the source feeding the DAC, how can we judge ?

Jan

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

As simon says the DAC seems to divide opinion.

Yes, DAC owners like it. For some weird reason, those with expensive CD don't

-Patrick

Well that seems to be the what we are seeing here, the sound of combined DACs is different to the sound of Naim's separate DAC, and each sound appeals to listeners differently. This is exactly what we are seeing in the NDX thread. Conclusion - well you can't assume a combined or separate DAC is better for you Despite what people say. It depends on your system and how you listen to the presentation, so you will need to listen and make your own mind up what works for you.

Simon

quote:

Originally posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:

Yes, the DAC divides opinion, but how much is being falsely attributed to the DAC when it may well be the source that is the cause ? If posters do not specify the source feeding the DAC, how can we judge ?

Jan

Jan, I agree the source does appear to have quite an effect, which of course is another variable. For instance with my ears the presentation of identical files via the Unitiserve, compared to the HDX, through the nDAC was slightly more muddled and less fluid and that was through a complete Naim system and Fraim.

Simon

I see more and more people consider nDAC in the context of source.

When I got my nDAC about 8 months ago I did a number of tests and spot a clear difference between my digital sources. I was bombarded by forum members as " having placebo" and "technically impossible"

I confirm the difference was much less than with my previous DAC's and even cheap DVD's grew up in performance. But the difference is still there and if you seek for the ultimate performance it is strongly recommended to feed nDAC with high quality transport. I didn't find a difference in digital cable performance though.

quote:

The superb user interface, and accessibility to my record collection

Jan, how do you access data files and control UnityServe? I mean PC or iPad or what?

quote:

Originally posted by AMA:

quote:

The superb user interface, and accessibility to my record collection

Jan, how do you access data files and control UnityServe? I mean PC or iPad or what?

Pretty much as you like :

1/ a touchscreen monitor plugged directly into the Serve (USB, VGA, S-video)
2/ a regular screen and a mouse, both plugged into the back of the Serve
3/ computer, through your browser logged onto the Serve, or through Naim's desktop client application
4/ iPod Touch / iPhone / iPad, using the nServe application (40 $ from the app store)
5/ if you have the Uniti (Qute or regular), from its front panel display, using the Uniti remote control.

1 & 2 don't require a network (ethernet or wireless) if you're using the Serve as a source into your DAC (you'll need to rip your discs with the Serve connected to the net to aquire the metadata from the All Music Guide site). I move the Serve back and forth between our house in town (internet connection) and the country (no internet connection). I like the flat panel monitor approach, as you can always see what's playing ; a touchscreen gives you a great way to interact with your music.

3 & 5 obviously require a cabled network.

4 requires a wireless network. The nServe app on the iPod Touch is really great as you have fingertip access to everything, from your listening seat. I can definitely see the attraction of an iPad. Oh, and the screen resolution on the latest generation iPod Touch (and iPad) is stunning ; eye fatigue ? not any more.

Jan

Hopefully we covered pretty much all bases for you there Jan ... there are Crestron and AMX control modules as well if you wanted to go that route.

Phil

quote:

if you seek for the ultimate performance it is strongly recommended to feed nDAC with high quality transport

Absolutely, and for me the UnitiServe is by far the best front end to the DAC that I have heard (no, I haven't heard the HDX)

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Harris:
Hopefully we covered pretty much all bases for you there Jan ... there are Crestron and AMX control modules as well if you wanted to go that route.

Phil

You've done a wonderful job. I'm reviewing the Serve and Qute for Son & Image magazine, and I'm simply stunned by the versatility and access these units provide to the outside world (ie beyond Naim)... What a sea change from the biodome approach of the past and no DIN plugs !

Seriously though, to have accomplished all this and maintained traditional Naim strengths - and in the case of the Serve - even reinforced them - is phenomenal work.

Question : am I correct in assuming, if I have two houses connected to the net with the Serve in one house, that I can stream to the other or copy my music over the net on to a NAS in the second house ?

Jan