DAC v CS3
Posted by: BigJim on 13 September 2010
What is the typical Naim DAC set-up that is broadly considered equal to a CDS3 + XPS?
Posted on: 16 September 2010 by AMA
Jan, how prompt is the response from iPad (through wi-fi) or Touchscreen monitor?
Is it similar to CDP remote or it takes time to navigate and respond to button press?
Posted on: 16 September 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Response from iPod (so I presume iPad also) is immediate, just like a CDP remote. Ditto for touchscreen. The only interface where I found a lag is when using the Qute remote to control the Qute controlling the Serve.
Hey thanks, you're helping me write my review !
(apologies BigJim for diverting your thread...)
Jan
Posted on: 16 September 2010 by AMA
quote:
Response from iPod (so I presume iPad also) is immediate, just like a CDP remote. Ditto for touchscreen.
Jan, where I can have a look for the screenshots and description of nServe app and built-in UnityServe app through touchscreen?
Posted on: 16 September 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Posted on: 16 September 2010 by AMA
Jan, thanks a lot! Is that possible to browse the actual file structure of my NAS through Naim interface? I don't use application menus (like Albums, Artists, Genres, Recent etc.) and prefer to navigate through my own structure of Music Folders.
Posted on: 16 September 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
Jan, thanks a lot! Is that possible to browse the actual file structure of my NAS through Naim interface? I don't use application menus (like Albums, Artists, Genres, Recent etc.) and prefer to navigate through my own structure of Music Folders.
I don't have a NAS hooked up, so I can't answer. Perhaps this is possible through the desktop client application. Phil Harris should be able to answer this.
Jan
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by rich2513
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
quote:
As simon says the DAC seems to divide opinion.
Yes, DAC owners like it. For
some weird reason, those with expensive CD players don't.
I will listen to those that own/owned both, any day of the week.
-Patrick
Slightly cynical.
I owned a DAC. I bought one with my own money and used it for 2 weeks at the same time as my CDS3 in the same system, both sharing exactly the same XPS and with one being disconnected and turned off whilst the other was being used. There was no financial or posession driven decisions made. FWIW I now don't own either the dac or the CDS3.
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by Richard Dane
As a long-time CDS3 user, and also an nDAC user, I now find a Meridian 206/DC1/nDAC/XPS to be my CD source of choice.
I love the CDS3 and was very sceptical that I would find the DAC more engaging, but that's how I find it. Having said that, with all the other transports I tried (with the possible honourable exception of the DVD5), I would have put the CDS3 ahead. For some reason the Meridian just "works". Maybe a lucky synergy, I don't know, but for the sound I'm willing to put up with it's slow response and weird control logic (as well as the ever present threat that it may just die any time with no chance of a replacment mechanism). It's a tad less smooth than the CDS3 but also a bit more of a thrill ride. It has broken down the reality barrier like no other CD player in my experience, with the possible exception of a CD555. I haven't listened to an exhaustive list of transports (and still to hear a Naim CDX2.2) so maybe there are others that will work as well or maybe better. If so, WOW!
The DAC also gives me access to my Hi-res music (big Neil Young fan and so very well served here!), which can be staggeringly good. Only caveat is that I'm not so convinced using a Vaio with Hiface & Asio. In isolation it's great - really great in fact - but the CD transport edges it with 16bit 44.1kHz material. But it's early days for me with computer audio so there's definitely room for progress here. I've only just begun to scratch the surface.
If you preferred things the other way round (CDS3 over Transport/DAC/XPS) then I wouldn't argue, they can both be awesome in their way. However, the CDS3 can be pretty finicky in setup to get singing, and very easy to make sound lacklustre. Ensuring the support and the suspension is spot-on is essential. I do wonder how many have never heard a CDS3 at its best. Also the DAC should only be judged after a good long run-in. Only after a good 2 months did I feel that performance had reached a peak plateau. Contrary to theory, the source for the DAC makes a BIG difference. It's the difference between excellence and magic...
Oh, one final thought; I think the CDS3 looks gorgeous. Definitely one of the most elegant CD players made. I do know that at least one of you will vehemently disagree...
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by Hot Rats
I don't have a CDS3. I am running a CDS2/XPS. I also have NDAC/XPS. I have obviously compared the two and have invited friends to do the same when they visit.
All of my friends who have made the comparison have preferred the sound of the DAC/XPS. They say that it is more detailed and revealing. I'm not so sure.
I find that the CDS2/XPS and NDAC/XPS offer very different presentations. I think the DAC combination is probably more revealing but the CDP has such an engaging presentation. The one thing that I do know is that both a very fine source components and I can live very happily with either. The DAC does of course, give the opportunity to listen to HiRes ... You're right Richard. The Neil Young 'Archive' is great in 24-Bit/192kHz ... Almost worth owning a DAC for that alone!
If however, you're looking for the live sound, go out and get to some gigs. I am yet to hear an audio system that can rival the live experience, although other factors, such as being there, are involved.
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by AMA
quote:
I am yet to hear an audio system that can rival the live experience, although other factors, such as being there, are involved.
Two weeks ago I happened to listen for live organ performance in Koln Dom.
Made me an itch to ditch my home system
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:
I don't have a CDS3. I am running a CDS2/XPS. I also have NDAC/XPS.
And what is your digital source for the DAC ?
Jan
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by rich2513
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Dane:
As a long-time CDS3 user, and also an nDAC user, I now find a Meridian 206/DC1/nDAC/XPS to be my CD source of choice.
I love the CDS3 and was very sceptical that I would find the DAC more engaging, but that's how I find it. Having said that, with all the other transports I tried (with the possible honourable exception of the DVD5), I would have put the CDS3 ahead. For some reason the Meridian just "works". Maybe a lucky synergy, I don't know, but for the sound I'm willing to put up with it's slow response and weird control logic (as well as the ever present threat that it may just die any time with no chance of a replacment mechanism). It's a tad less smooth than the CDS3 but also a bit more of a thrill ride. It has broken down the reality barrier like no other CD player in my experience, with the possible exception of a CD555. I haven't listened to an exhaustive list of transports (and still to hear a Naim CDX2.2) so maybe there are others that will work as well or maybe better. If so, WOW!
The DAC also gives me access to my Hi-res music (big Neil Young fan and so very well served here!), which can be staggeringly good. Only caveat is that I'm not so convinced using a Vaio with Hiface & Asio. In isolation it's great - really great in fact - but the CD transport edges it with 16bit 44.1kHz material. But it's early days for me with computer audio so there's definitely room for progress here. I've only just begun to scratch the surface.
If you preferred things the other way round (CDS3 over Transport/DAC/XPS) then I wouldn't argue, they can both be awesome in their way. However, the CDS3 can be pretty finicky in setup to get singing, and very easy to make sound lacklustre. Ensuring the support and the suspension is spot-on is essential. I do wonder how many have never heard a CDS3 at its best. Also the DAC should only be judged after a good long run-in. Only after a good 2 months did I feel that performance had reached a peak plateau. Contrary to theory, the source for the DAC makes a BIG difference. It's the difference between excellence and magic...
Oh, one final thought; I think the CDS3 looks gorgeous. Definitely one of the most elegant CD players made. I do know that at least one of you will vehemently disagree...
Interesting post Richard and it certainly sounds like the meridian has a certain sort of synergy. I think partnering electronics is also important. I would imagine most people would have heard the DAC through later Naim preamps which will arguably settle the sound down a little when compared to olive and chrome bumper preamps.
I agree with what you say about the CDS3 as well. I found a very large difference between isoblue, mana ref and mana with no addede top phase.
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by rich2513
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor JazzI think the DAC combination is probably more revealing but the CDP has such an engaging presentation.
My findings exactly and a lot of it depends on how you evaluate sound. If you are focusing on emotional response then you will be aware of what is more engaging. If you are focusing on the audible properties of the music then you will be more aware of what is more revealing and perhaps 'better hifi'. The jump to CDS3 from CDSII means even more engagement and IME by the time you get to the CD555 you are at a level of involvement that makes it totally incomparable.
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by Richard Dane
Rich,
I'm lucky to have a wonderful "C-B" system as well as the current one. I've tested through both (keeping the SL2s constant, just changing over the electronics on the Fraim stacks) and the results were consistent.
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by Guido Fawkes
I listened to both and picked the one I preferred - of course the best way would be to have an extended home demo of both and keep the one that sounded best, but
frankly I don't have the time - so I opted for the nDAC, which I found more enjoyable and musical than the CDP, and have been happily using it ever since - perhaps I'm mad. Before I had the DAC I was happily using the CDP in fact I still do at night through some Stax ear-speakers - yes I like both so I am mad.
When it comes down to it whatever you've bought is the best - very few posters seem to write I bought the nDAC, but much prefer the CDS3 or
vice versa - anybody care to offer a suggestion as to why this is?
Seems the same as it is for record decks
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by Jo Sharp
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Dane:
However, the CDS3 can be pretty finicky in setup to get singing, and very easy to make sound lacklustre. Ensuring the support and the suspension is spot-on is essential. I do wonder how many have never heard a CDS3 at its best.
Richard,
Can you share the suspension set-up secrets with us please?
Jo
Posted on: 17 September 2010 by AMA
quote:
Can you share the suspension set-up secrets with us please?
Let me guess: buy Frame and drop PS down to the base and head unit to the second shelf from the top
Posted on: 18 September 2010 by Jo Sharp
That would cover the support bit...but not the suspension of the CD mech inside the case...
Posted on: 18 September 2010 by rich2513
quote:
Originally posted by AllenB:
quote:
Originally posted by Jo Sharp:
That would cover the support bit...but not the suspension of the CD mech inside the case...
Make sure the support is absolutely 100% level (one additional trick to spirit level is to place the ball bearing on the glass, it should sit steady and not tend to roll in any direction). The mech then works to a true level.
Also, no second shelf (or you'll never get a CD into the player
), top shelf for obvious reasons, but try not to put it 6 storeys up, even Fraim gets quite 'wobbly' at that height. As far away from PSU's as the cable dressing will allow. Also applies to as far away from the speakers as your room and cabling allows (in practical terms keeping it out of the direct line of fire)
Taking out the transit screws also helps alot
My CDS3 on isoblue (atop a stack of electronics) was ok but a bit thick, dark, over-warm and 'ploddy'.
On a mana reference the separation was much better and the sound was brighter, more sprightly and more tuneful but overall a bit thin and metallic sounding.
Taking the top glass phase off the mana ref and just using the square mana table (much like a basic sound org. table I guess but a lot more rigid) was somewhere inbetween the two sounds and just about perfect for the CDS3.
Untwisted burndy very important and of course a hiline. Once I'd tried a hiline and the machines timbre was corrected and it was made even more musical and alive, I found it difficult to use it without one.
Posted on: 18 September 2010 by AMA
quote:
Also, no second shelf (or you'll never get a CD into the player )
The top shelf is supposed to be extended
