It's all kicked off
Posted by: John Channing on 19 March 2003
Fighting has started for the port of Bazra and the Southern oil fields. British and American troops have also entered the demilitarized zone in Southern Iraq. Let's hope for a swift conclusion.
John
John
Posted on: 22 March 2003 by Justin
You folks are reading too much into my response to Paul.
I would gather that no justification for war is appropriate other than the weight of our lives versus those of the enemies. Surely I am not wrong in ascribing this view to you. I will be forgiven for assuming that Oil, Political Capital, and other less weighty spoils do NOT justify wars in your minds.
Why now do you deride me for stating this seemingly uncontroversial premise?
I offered this only as a response to Pauls overbroad calculation. It did not offer it as the "true" justification for this war (frankly I do not know exactly what Bush and Blair base this war on--I have never claimed to).
But I continue to reject Paul's assertion that wars are only justified if you are willing to sacrifice as many people as you are likely to kill. This is patently absurd precisely because at its base people fight wars (or should fight wars--does that satisfy you?) precisely because they want to protect thier own lives at the expense of others.
Why is this such a controversial premise?
I gather it is because Paul (and the rest who have taken his position) feel that there should be some weightier value for which nations fight wars (weightier, that is, than the protection of the lives of the beligerants). I'd be interested to hear what those weightier values might be. Surely it cannot be the protection of oppressed people. Were that so, you'd have to admit at least some justfication for the current war. I gather none of you are willing to do this.
Judd
I would gather that no justification for war is appropriate other than the weight of our lives versus those of the enemies. Surely I am not wrong in ascribing this view to you. I will be forgiven for assuming that Oil, Political Capital, and other less weighty spoils do NOT justify wars in your minds.
Why now do you deride me for stating this seemingly uncontroversial premise?
I offered this only as a response to Pauls overbroad calculation. It did not offer it as the "true" justification for this war (frankly I do not know exactly what Bush and Blair base this war on--I have never claimed to).
But I continue to reject Paul's assertion that wars are only justified if you are willing to sacrifice as many people as you are likely to kill. This is patently absurd precisely because at its base people fight wars (or should fight wars--does that satisfy you?) precisely because they want to protect thier own lives at the expense of others.
Why is this such a controversial premise?
I gather it is because Paul (and the rest who have taken his position) feel that there should be some weightier value for which nations fight wars (weightier, that is, than the protection of the lives of the beligerants). I'd be interested to hear what those weightier values might be. Surely it cannot be the protection of oppressed people. Were that so, you'd have to admit at least some justfication for the current war. I gather none of you are willing to do this.
Judd
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Chaps
I am not complaining.........price of oil is dropping like a stone....$24 ...lovely.
Once this lot is over, the good times will roll, low oil prices and low interest rates, everyone benifits.
The people of Iraq will have freedom for the first time in years.
Hopefully in a couple of weeks time we can quote Maggie
Rejoice Rejoice Rejoice
Just how stupid do you look now?
Highest oil prices in 21 years
An upsurge in terrorist attacks all over the world
Continued fighting in Iraq with lots of casualties, most of them civilians
Still no UN participation
Human rights abuses by the allied forces
Infrastructure in Iraq still not back to pre-war levels
No significant WMD finds
Squabbling between the USA and even their Iraqi lapdogs about the way forward
What a fucking mess...
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Mick P
Stop bloody whinging.
The price will drop as more oil fields in China and Russia come on line.
If you do not agree with the war, fair enough, but dont blame the price of oil on it. We nearly had prices like this 3 years ago.
Oil is a price sensitive commodity, even a politician sneezing can trigger movements one way or the other.
Regards
Mick
The price will drop as more oil fields in China and Russia come on line.
If you do not agree with the war, fair enough, but dont blame the price of oil on it. We nearly had prices like this 3 years ago.
Oil is a price sensitive commodity, even a politician sneezing can trigger movements one way or the other.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Stop bloody whinging.
The price will drop as more oil fields in China and Russia come on line.
Your entire justification for the war came down to controlling the oil supply - so how long until the US invade China and Russia then?
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Mick P
Contolling the oil is still being done, the price may have gone up but we have got it.
You would be the first to moan if the stuff dried up.
It is just one of those things. In a strange sort of way it is doing us all a favour, it has eliminated deflation as an economic threat and we are back to mild inflation which is fairly healthy.
Regards
Mick
You would be the first to moan if the stuff dried up.
It is just one of those things. In a strange sort of way it is doing us all a favour, it has eliminated deflation as an economic threat and we are back to mild inflation which is fairly healthy.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Contolling the oil is still being done, the price may have gone up but we have got it.
Are you sure about that? Even the non-democratic interim government in Iraq looks anti-US and will probably kick the occupying forces out just as soon as it's legally able to do so. Given that the US has already advised its citizens to leave Saudi then it's quite likely that they will have less control over oil production in the medium term.
quote:
You would be the first to moan if the stuff dried up.
Nope - I can cycle to work.
quote:
It is just one of those things. In a strange sort of way it is doing us all a favour, it has eliminated deflation as an economic threat and we are back to mild inflation which is fairly healthy.
Astounding. You really are a gullible fool - if Tony B.liar said his shit was chocolate you'd be wolfing it down with loads of yum, yum...
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Mick P
If your last sentence is going to be typical then I am not going to continue any further.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
If your last sentence is going to be typical then I am not going to continue any further.
Tremendous.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Dev B
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Stop bloody whinging.
The price will drop as more oil fields in China and Russia come on line.
He's right (& don't ask me how I know
). The real problem with high oil prices is that it is effectively a tax on growth.