Genres of music - best with Naim kit?
Posted by: Sadam on 13 September 2005
Hi there,
My listening tastes are fairly varied (if I say so myself) - practically anything will get a spin except Opera or Country/Western.
However, my tastes over the last couple of years have moved towards the ambient/IDM end of the musical spectrum, to the extent that I'm not really listening to anything with "real" instruments in it at all, mostly samples/synths and the like (Orbital, Future Sound of London, Boards of Canada, Aphex Twin etc).
The hi-fi I have plays this kind of music well (I think), but I guess the main thing is resolution of detail, and being able to recreate the sounstage depth (even if it was artificially mastered).
How does this fit into people's idea of the way hi-fi should work? Obviously I also listen to pop/rock and the like, but biasing a system towards electronica in the same way some folks do for their classical/opera? Is it feasible, and does Naim kit do this better than anyone else?
Any thoughts?
Neil
My listening tastes are fairly varied (if I say so myself) - practically anything will get a spin except Opera or Country/Western.
However, my tastes over the last couple of years have moved towards the ambient/IDM end of the musical spectrum, to the extent that I'm not really listening to anything with "real" instruments in it at all, mostly samples/synths and the like (Orbital, Future Sound of London, Boards of Canada, Aphex Twin etc).
The hi-fi I have plays this kind of music well (I think), but I guess the main thing is resolution of detail, and being able to recreate the sounstage depth (even if it was artificially mastered).
How does this fit into people's idea of the way hi-fi should work? Obviously I also listen to pop/rock and the like, but biasing a system towards electronica in the same way some folks do for their classical/opera? Is it feasible, and does Naim kit do this better than anyone else?
Any thoughts?
Neil
Dear John,
Shooting you down in flames, in the friendliest way.
As you know I have been professional as a classical bass player and also teacher of the instrument, as well as retaining an unreasonable enthusiasm for the sort of music people often call classical for reasons that mystify me just a bit! I can definately state that the things that Naim kit gets right, and which pop and rock afficianardos think makes the kit work well in these genres, also are the essentials for classical music. Rhythm and Pitch are the fundamentals of music of whatever category, classical even more than any other sort of music, I would have thought. Thus it was that when I discovered a manufacturere that also got timbre and dynamics right, I felt all my replay Christmases had come at once. Nothing nearly so accute out there among all the soft, spacial, Round-earth rubbish that calls itself Hifi, and yet is infact serving the wonders of classical music up through some soggy, sugary filter instead of concentrating on most accurately revealing the essentials!!!!!!!! 
The questions I ask are these: Which is more important? The tension and release that always come from rhythmic nuancing, or some sense that the instrument (such as a solo woodwind)is set in some muddy, middle distance twenty feet behind the violins (which of course in a concert hall it never would be!). And secondly, is it more important to detect, for example, that a woodwind player is to the left or right of his neigbour (when you would not able to work out more than that he was in the middle of the platform in the concert room), or what expressive tonal shadings is the player applying to mould the phrase musically? If the answers are that precision of placing and hall acoustic are what you value in classical replay you may be better of with say Arcam, but for the important musical message of expression through their instruments, IMO, nothing I have come across gets so consistently close to revealing the intentions of the performers in classical replay as Naim consistently does...
Please forgive this, but I actually can't square with your view at all, and personally contend that the Naim sound can actually be quite off-putting with unnaturally recorded stuff, and thus I think it is actually at its best in Classical and naturally recorded Jazz....
Just my 2 pence worth for all that!
Kindest regards, Fredrik
Shooting you down in flames, in the friendliest way.
As you know I have been professional as a classical bass player and also teacher of the instrument, as well as retaining an unreasonable enthusiasm for the sort of music people often call classical for reasons that mystify me just a bit! I can definately state that the things that Naim kit gets right, and which pop and rock afficianardos think makes the kit work well in these genres, also are the essentials for classical music. Rhythm and Pitch are the fundamentals of music of whatever category, classical even more than any other sort of music, I would have thought. Thus it was that when I discovered a manufacturere that also got timbre and dynamics right, I felt all my replay Christmases had come at once. Nothing nearly so accute out there among all the soft, spacial, Round-earth rubbish that calls itself Hifi, and yet is infact serving the wonders of classical music up through some soggy, sugary filter instead of concentrating on most accurately revealing the essentials!!!!!!!! The questions I ask are these: Which is more important? The tension and release that always come from rhythmic nuancing, or some sense that the instrument (such as a solo woodwind)is set in some muddy, middle distance twenty feet behind the violins (which of course in a concert hall it never would be!). And secondly, is it more important to detect, for example, that a woodwind player is to the left or right of his neigbour (when you would not able to work out more than that he was in the middle of the platform in the concert room), or what expressive tonal shadings is the player applying to mould the phrase musically? If the answers are that precision of placing and hall acoustic are what you value in classical replay you may be better of with say Arcam, but for the important musical message of expression through their instruments, IMO, nothing I have come across gets so consistently close to revealing the intentions of the performers in classical replay as Naim consistently does...
Please forgive this, but I actually can't square with your view at all, and personally contend that the Naim sound can actually be quite off-putting with unnaturally recorded stuff, and thus I think it is actually at its best in Classical and naturally recorded Jazz....
Just my 2 pence worth for all that!
Kindest regards, Fredrik
.
As someone who has recorded music on the Naim Label (never let it be said that I missed an opportunity for self-promotion
), and has heard that music reproduced on several Naim systems, I strongly disagree.
While my music is not purely classical (nor purely jazz ... in fact, it's just plain impure!), and while a trio doesn't qualify as "a lot" of real instruments, I have never had such a visceral experience of hearing actual wooden instruments breathing right there in the room with me. You want lush, three dimensional sound-stage? The air in the music was palpable.
Larger classical works sound equally lush to me on Naim systems, as does any music I've ever heard on them.
Yes, you did. and it's the correct answer.
Fred
.
quote:Originally posted by J.N.:
I think that Naim systems ... aren't that good with classical (i.e. a lot of real instruments recorded in a real acoustic space) music.
As someone who has recorded music on the Naim Label (never let it be said that I missed an opportunity for self-promotion
), and has heard that music reproduced on several Naim systems, I strongly disagree.While my music is not purely classical (nor purely jazz ... in fact, it's just plain impure!), and while a trio doesn't qualify as "a lot" of real instruments, I have never had such a visceral experience of hearing actual wooden instruments breathing right there in the room with me. You want lush, three dimensional sound-stage? The air in the music was palpable.
Larger classical works sound equally lush to me on Naim systems, as does any music I've ever heard on them.
quote:Originally posted by Sadam:
I suppose it may be down to the music itself rather than the system it is played on.
Oh well, answered my own question there.
Yes, you did. and it's the correct answer.
Fred
.
quote:You mentioned supplying my system details in my forum profile
Neil
Click (top LHS) GO then click MY SPACE. Click View/Edit and write the information. System info is usually the end of your biography or instead of if you are shy
Howard
Peter;
Edouard does not have Naim speakers of course, which are arguably what really dictates the sound one ends up with - and I don't think Naim speakers (from the ones he's heard) would be his first choice, for his favoured music.
Self abuse?
Masochism?
Unintelligible wailing noises? (that's from me - not the Opera) - Hang on though; I'm not sure now
Hope you're keeping well.
John.
Edouard does not have Naim speakers of course, which are arguably what really dictates the sound one ends up with - and I don't think Naim speakers (from the ones he's heard) would be his first choice, for his favoured music.
quote:You'll be surpised what pleasure lies in the realms of opera and Country & Western music!
Self abuse?
Masochism?
Unintelligible wailing noises? (that's from me - not the Opera) - Hang on though; I'm not sure now
Hope you're keeping well.
John.
quote:Originally posted by J.N.:
Peter;quote:You'll be surpised what pleasure lies in the realms of opera and Country & Western music!
Self abuse?
Masochism?
Unintelligible wailing noises? (that's from me - not the Opera) - Hang on though; I'm not sure now
Hope you're keeping well.
John.
my Dad introduced me to Opera, He's a visual person and can't stand to listen to recorded music even tho' he spent what was a huge wad in the 70s on a big B&O system, he'd rather and still does watch a crap TV. As for C&W 5 years in the american midwest help me to get it. Nowadays I can listen to Johnny Cash, Lyle Lovett, Dwight Yoakam, Hank willieams etc with a great deal of pleasure. That's not to say that they not above putting out shite, Johhny Cash in particular. I also like the groups that owe more to the Byrds, like Jayhawks that I stick in C&W but I prefer to call it "Americana", which is where I consider the likes of Townes Van Zandt, Steve Earle or Guy Clarke.
I've not listened to anything boisterous on Edouard's system, but I was much taken by its naturalness.
P.
Tam
I have nSats and find Janácek - The Cunning Little Vixen (Chandos CHAN31012) sounds superb. I really like naim speakers and consider them better than the PMCs and TDLs that I used to use. However, you may be right 'cos Janácek sounds even better through my headphones (Stax 4040). It is all highly subjective.
Rotf
I have nSats and find Janácek - The Cunning Little Vixen (Chandos CHAN31012) sounds superb. I really like naim speakers and consider them better than the PMCs and TDLs that I used to use. However, you may be right 'cos Janácek sounds even better through my headphones (Stax 4040). It is all highly subjective.
Rotf
quote:Naim does better than most brands I hear at conveying the accurate tone of a voice - and the sheer speed of the system makes voices simply natural.
Till you try a decent SET amp. They still excell at the voice. But I found Naim system is lot better than many solid state kit I had/have heard over the years.
quote:This being said, my speakers are non-Naim...
Even better with Naim speakers as far as spot-on timing goes.