Favorite set of Beethoven Symphonies

George, for each of us, the things that resonate most freely in our listening are the things that find a commonality in the spirit of the listener (i.e. in yourself).

Beethoven had a broad pallet of emotion in all of his music. The things that reflect back to the listener tell as much about the listener as anything.

I think it interesting as I feel this way by instinct with Beethoven, but not Bach, who seems to me more universal in these respects.

That being the case, there is no absolute right or wrong. What there is, is an infinite variety of response from one person to the next.

I find each person's response interesting and worthy of reflection, but never confuse it with my own response, which by its nature would be most important to me.

Bach is the "Universal" composer. He apeals to listeners, who do not even realise it, but still respond ...


ATB from George

So to make a great generalization, Bach shows universal truth, but Beethoven gives voice to transient human truth in all its variety.

That was Jochum's opinion, who first made me fall in love with Beethoven. Jochum's notes on his Beethoven cycle read like homage and confessional.

One's initial experience with a composer leave an indelible mark on the soul.

I have always enjoyed Eugen Jochum's clear-sighted observations on music of the classical composers! He cuts through the thicket like a sabre! He observed that Haydn is warmer, more human, than Mozart - Haydn was a man who had lived life and survived by necessary means and retained a massive sense of humour with it! Jochum said that Haydn's music was that of the rural stoic, more robust, and rougher, than the neurotic urban Mozart! From the DG LP boxed set notes [LPO/Jochum] of Haydn's London Symphonies on DG written by the conductor.

His approach to Haydn is indeed open-air, powerful, almost clipped in its stoicism on occasion, and full of the humour that Beecham also found in it.

ATB from George

I have Jochum's London Symphonies and love them.

I think his affinity for Haydn colors his Beethoven to the music's benefit.

His Missa Solemnis is still my favorite.

Well Haydn was Beethoven's teacher, though Haydn did sack his pupil!

ATB from George

George, if it is true that every listener to Beethoven can have a unique response, then the same must be true of the musicians who preform Beethoven.

That could fill up 25 sets and more.

But I get too close to the ones I have. Each time a new one is added, the longer it takes to assimilate.

Dear Mike,

Though apart from Vanska, and in a way possibly [though not definitely] Immerseel, modern Beethoven interpretation is rather dull, polished and un-spiritual for me, your point guarantees Beethoven will fascinate and inspire future generations in "25 to the power "x"" of new insights into the music. The best performance is always in the future.

With Bach this was never even an issue as he always goes best live anyway!

ATB from George

I spent the morning hunting down Beethoven quotes about the use of metronome markings in his symphonies.

The picture I have is that he had great faith in the metronome at the beginning, but later had second thoughts.

I suppose it reduces the metronome markings to the status of a curiosity, of mild interest.

It's only natural that he would be attracted to a device of such indisputable utility for a musician. But like so many gadgets, it has its limits.

Dear Mike,

The metronome is a useful guide. Essential to "consider" what the composer had in mind, when he wrote the basic Allegro con brio, Allegro maestoso, Allegretto quasi Andante or whatever. Sometimes it really shows a piece written in 4/4 might best be pulsed as a steady two in a bar rather than taken at a four in a bar. This might well give a much more accurate impression of the intention of the composer's ideal notion of the tempo, but really even the gadget conscious Elgar made some fearful howlers trying to indicate tempo with the metronome. When the Enigma Variations came out Elgar carefully put metronome marks all over the place, and when Hans Richter suggested that at one point it should go a "Leetle slower here, Edward," Elgar was not for changing it even though we know that he worked out the metronome speeds at the piano and annotated a piano reduction for Novellos to engrave on the full score plates for printing.

In 1926 Elgar made a failed attempt to play the section concerned [impossible at his prescribed speed in practice] in the HMV studio. He recorded the section at a relation of four fifths of the metronome and advised Novellos to edit all future prints of the score to the new tempo.

Furtwangler said that a standardised tempo was in any case impossible as every hall has a different acoustic, which necessarily means that sometimes the tempo can be too fast for clarity. Of course in a moderate sized hall with first class acoustic properties, faster tempi frequently work superbly, and clarity is no issue, but in many halls with larger spaces to fill and a larger orchestra to fill them, then sometime a slower tempo is actually necessary. Sibelius noted this as I mentioned earlier in the thread. Brahms also recognised it when he deleted all his metronome marking late in life.

But even Brahms' deleted marks do have a value. They give a hint ... A very valuable one.

ATB from George

I have 4 sets of Complete Beethoven Symphonies and the one I return to the most often is a Reader's Digest set I bought in a used records store for $20:



I think Leibowitz really understood Beethoven

Claude

The Beethoven Immerseel/Anima Eterna Symphonies came today, and I would like to share some first impressions.

Right away, I dispatched the Eroica.

Of any orchestral recording I have heard on my system, this is the clearest and most dynamic.
You hear the glory of the horns and trumpets, and the Timpani the way God intended. No line is ever obscured.

Time and again, he had me throw up my hands and ask "Can you do that?" The score changed hands more than a dozen times in the aftermath.

We haven't stopped talking about it two hours later.

This Erocia is full of pathos and drama, and urgent in a full blooded way.

Now he has my undivided attention, and will for quite some time.

This set is going to get a lot of airtime :-)

Earlier in this thread, I did predict the considerable possibility that your would enjoy these!

Best wishes from George

Thanks again George!

We ended up listening to the Eroica three times last night. I was tempted to call a friend to come and drink while we listened all night.

Tonight we will turn to the 7th symphony.

I ordered Mozart Symphonies No. 40 and 41 by Anima Eterna on the strength of this Beethoven.

Finding such an agreeable new recording has put me in a festive mood.

George, I wish you lived here in New Orleans!

I will write you soon.

Postscript : This coming Saturday, we are having a Beethoven party. Several members of the local orchestra are coming over to drink and to hear this new Beethoven set, which no one has heard.

If it goes like these occasions have in the past, it will run from the early afternoon till well after midnight, with a break for food at a good resturant, probably Ralph's on the Park :-)

I suppose Karajan's '62/63 recording with the BPO is still my favourite, but they're familiar recordings of familiar music and I can't remember when I last listened to them. Various recordings by Kleiber, Furtwangler, Toscanini and Harnoncourt are the ones I tend to play these days. I still don't know Klemperer's recordings, but listening to them is on my to-do list for next year!

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

We've listened to 3-7-6-5-4 in that order.

Everything got multiple listens.

This set gets 10 hours or so every week for the next six months :-)

Highly recommended.