Wilhelm Furt****ler Beethoven's 9th and beyond.
Posted by: Whizzkid on 22 June 2008
Hi guys,
Now that I have sampled some of the well known conductors and their interpretations of Beethoven, that include Furwangler, Karajan, Klemperer and Haitink I have decided that the Furtwangler 9th has had the most impact on me closely followed by Haitink and the LSO's rendition of the 5th and 1st. I am talking about the 1951 concert recorded at the Bayreuth Festival. I now thought I would like to hear the other symphonies recorded by Furtwangler and had a look at Amazon to see an EMI box set.
Now to the experienced classic bods out there has there been many editions of a Furtwangler complete symphony cycle? and if there has I would like advice on a good one to look out for before I shell out for the first one I see.
Also this recording of the 9th seems to court a bit of controversy and it seems to stem from the fact that some find it a magical and emotionally impactful performance to others who find it technically (playing and recording) flawed. I think you'll gather which camp I'm in and ironically that seems to be a great analogy of the HiFI world.
Dean..
Now that I have sampled some of the well known conductors and their interpretations of Beethoven, that include Furwangler, Karajan, Klemperer and Haitink I have decided that the Furtwangler 9th has had the most impact on me closely followed by Haitink and the LSO's rendition of the 5th and 1st. I am talking about the 1951 concert recorded at the Bayreuth Festival. I now thought I would like to hear the other symphonies recorded by Furtwangler and had a look at Amazon to see an EMI box set.
Now to the experienced classic bods out there has there been many editions of a Furtwangler complete symphony cycle? and if there has I would like advice on a good one to look out for before I shell out for the first one I see.
Also this recording of the 9th seems to court a bit of controversy and it seems to stem from the fact that some find it a magical and emotionally impactful performance to others who find it technically (playing and recording) flawed. I think you'll gather which camp I'm in and ironically that seems to be a great analogy of the HiFI world.
Dean..
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,
I have had great problems with Furtwangler’s strange relationship with the Nazi Government and no longer have any of his recordings as a sort of personal stand against the popularity of man who was no better or worse than many around him at the time, except that he was in the perfect position to take a stand against Nazi Policy on Artistic Matters and the "Jewish Question."
On the other hand from the purely musical standpoint he was a capable and imaginative artist, whose work you either admire or dislike intensely.
Here is a list of Beethoven Symphony Recordings that I had about two years ago, and they reflect the fact that as a musician I admired his work alongside others like Klemperer, Bruno Walter and Erich Kleiber.
Every recording listed below offers something significant in the music, by Furtwangler or not.
Symphony No 1 in C
- BPO, Furtwangler, live, 1954 on Tahra
- VPO, Furtwangler, live, 1952 on Tahra
- VPO, Furtwangler, HMV Studio, 1952 on EMI
Symphony No 2
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI studio, 1957
Eroica symphony No 3, in E Flat
- VPO, Furtwangler, live in 1944, on Tahra
- VPO, Erich Kleiber, Decca Studio in 1954?
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio, 1955 recording.
- BPO, Furtwangler in 1950, and in 1952 on Tahra
Fourth Symphony in B Flat
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1957
- VPO, Furtwangler, live in Munich in 1952 on Music and Arts
- VPO, Furtwangler, HMV Studio in 1952 on EMI
Fifth Symphony in C Minor
- BPO, Furtwangler live in 1943, and in 1954 (also live in Paris in 1954). Both on Tahra
- Concertgebeow, Erich Kleiber, Decca studio in 1954?
- Philharmonia, Klemperer EMI Studio, 1955
- VPO, Klemperer live in 1968 or 69.
Pastoral Symphony No 6 in F
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1957
- Concertgebeouw, Erich Kleiber, Decca Studio in 1954
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in 1944, and 1954 on Tahra
Seventh Symphony in A
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1955
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in 1943 and in 1953 DG and Tahra
- VPO, Furtwangler, HMV Studio, 1950 on EMI
- VPO, Furtwangler, live at Salzburg in 1954 on Orfeo
- Stockholm Phil, Furtwangler, live in 1948 on Music and Arts
Eighth Symphony in F
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in 1953 on DG
- VPO, Furtwangler, live at Salzburg in 1954 on Orfeo
- Stockholm Phil, Furtwangler, live in 1948 on Music and Arts or EMI
Choral Symphony No 9
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, live in 1957 and 1961 on Testament. [These are far better than anything by Furtwangler in my view].
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio, 1957.
- Philharmonia, Furtwangler, live at Lucerne in 1954 on Tahra
- Stockholm Forenings Orkester, Furtwangler live in 1943. [deleted now]
- VPO, Furtwangler, live in 1953 on DG
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in London in 1937. On HMV/EMI LP
These are a distillation, and not a random pluck.
For the real set of Beethoven by one conductor look at this thread from Jeremy B, where I post my current favourite set. But also there are some fascinating and grand alternative lists as well, in my view.
George
Note that I think there are much finer recordings from Furtwangler of the Choral - in fact there is not one which is worse on any level at all, but it was issued as the only taping EMI had control over at the time, and was rushed out when Furtwangler died as there was no longer a chance to make a respectable effort in the studio - than the Beyreuth recording, which is riddled with poor playing, terrible internal balances in the orchestra, a rotten choir who are slack and over weight, all compounded in a breath0takingly bad recording. Even the old 1937 Mayday Concert given in the Queen's Hall in London and caught on the fly on HMV 78s is preferable as a recording, and the performance is quite grand musically.
I have had great problems with Furtwangler’s strange relationship with the Nazi Government and no longer have any of his recordings as a sort of personal stand against the popularity of man who was no better or worse than many around him at the time, except that he was in the perfect position to take a stand against Nazi Policy on Artistic Matters and the "Jewish Question."
On the other hand from the purely musical standpoint he was a capable and imaginative artist, whose work you either admire or dislike intensely.
Here is a list of Beethoven Symphony Recordings that I had about two years ago, and they reflect the fact that as a musician I admired his work alongside others like Klemperer, Bruno Walter and Erich Kleiber.
Every recording listed below offers something significant in the music, by Furtwangler or not.
Symphony No 1 in C
- BPO, Furtwangler, live, 1954 on Tahra
- VPO, Furtwangler, live, 1952 on Tahra
- VPO, Furtwangler, HMV Studio, 1952 on EMI
Symphony No 2
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI studio, 1957
Eroica symphony No 3, in E Flat
- VPO, Furtwangler, live in 1944, on Tahra
- VPO, Erich Kleiber, Decca Studio in 1954?
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio, 1955 recording.
- BPO, Furtwangler in 1950, and in 1952 on Tahra
Fourth Symphony in B Flat
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1957
- VPO, Furtwangler, live in Munich in 1952 on Music and Arts
- VPO, Furtwangler, HMV Studio in 1952 on EMI
Fifth Symphony in C Minor
- BPO, Furtwangler live in 1943, and in 1954 (also live in Paris in 1954). Both on Tahra
- Concertgebeow, Erich Kleiber, Decca studio in 1954?
- Philharmonia, Klemperer EMI Studio, 1955
- VPO, Klemperer live in 1968 or 69.
Pastoral Symphony No 6 in F
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1957
- Concertgebeouw, Erich Kleiber, Decca Studio in 1954
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in 1944, and 1954 on Tahra
Seventh Symphony in A
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio in 1955
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in 1943 and in 1953 DG and Tahra
- VPO, Furtwangler, HMV Studio, 1950 on EMI
- VPO, Furtwangler, live at Salzburg in 1954 on Orfeo
- Stockholm Phil, Furtwangler, live in 1948 on Music and Arts
Eighth Symphony in F
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in 1953 on DG
- VPO, Furtwangler, live at Salzburg in 1954 on Orfeo
- Stockholm Phil, Furtwangler, live in 1948 on Music and Arts or EMI
Choral Symphony No 9
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, live in 1957 and 1961 on Testament. [These are far better than anything by Furtwangler in my view].
- Philharmonia, Klemperer, EMI Studio, 1957.
- Philharmonia, Furtwangler, live at Lucerne in 1954 on Tahra
- Stockholm Forenings Orkester, Furtwangler live in 1943. [deleted now]
- VPO, Furtwangler, live in 1953 on DG
- BPO, Furtwangler, live in London in 1937. On HMV/EMI LP
These are a distillation, and not a random pluck.
For the real set of Beethoven by one conductor look at this thread from Jeremy B, where I post my current favourite set. But also there are some fascinating and grand alternative lists as well, in my view.
George
Note that I think there are much finer recordings from Furtwangler of the Choral - in fact there is not one which is worse on any level at all, but it was issued as the only taping EMI had control over at the time, and was rushed out when Furtwangler died as there was no longer a chance to make a respectable effort in the studio - than the Beyreuth recording, which is riddled with poor playing, terrible internal balances in the orchestra, a rotten choir who are slack and over weight, all compounded in a breath0takingly bad recording. Even the old 1937 Mayday Concert given in the Queen's Hall in London and caught on the fly on HMV 78s is preferable as a recording, and the performance is quite grand musically.
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Thanks George,
I'll have to read up on Furtwanglers relationship with the Nazi's sounds interesting, being who he was at that time must have been difficult. I will keep your suggestions in mind if a box set is not deemed a good purchase I'll look for the singular releases.
Dean..
I'll have to read up on Furtwanglers relationship with the Nazi's sounds interesting, being who he was at that time must have been difficult. I will keep your suggestions in mind if a box set is not deemed a good purchase I'll look for the singular releases.
Dean..
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,
As far as I know the only boxed set was issued by HMV/EMI on LP and later CD, which contains VPO Studio recordings of 1, not 2, but 3 to 7.
The Second was a VPO BBC TV broadcast from the RAH in 1948, and was easily the worst recording I have ever heard, and the Eighth was the Stockholm account mentioned above from 1948. The Choral is that ill-fated set from Beyreuth ...
Orfeo have found out WF's very last VPO concert of 8 and 7 in that order at Salzburg in August 1954, and this is superb in every way as playing, conducting and recording.
ATB from George
As far as I know the only boxed set was issued by HMV/EMI on LP and later CD, which contains VPO Studio recordings of 1, not 2, but 3 to 7.
The Second was a VPO BBC TV broadcast from the RAH in 1948, and was easily the worst recording I have ever heard, and the Eighth was the Stockholm account mentioned above from 1948. The Choral is that ill-fated set from Beyreuth ...
Orfeo have found out WF's very last VPO concert of 8 and 7 in that order at Salzburg in August 1954, and this is superb in every way as playing, conducting and recording.
ATB from George
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,
I have a rather pro-Furtwangler book, called "The Devil's Music Master," which makes about as strong case for his conduct as could be done, but unfortunately relying on Nazi witnesses such Elisabeth Schwarzkopf and many less famous fellow travellers, as well as Bona Fide people like Menuhin.
By Sam Shirakawa, and published by Oxford University Press. Your's if you want it, and if so just send me an email. [address in profile].
ATB from George
PS: I think Shirakawa rather liked the Beyreuth Choral set!
I have a rather pro-Furtwangler book, called "The Devil's Music Master," which makes about as strong case for his conduct as could be done, but unfortunately relying on Nazi witnesses such Elisabeth Schwarzkopf and many less famous fellow travellers, as well as Bona Fide people like Menuhin.
By Sam Shirakawa, and published by Oxford University Press. Your's if you want it, and if so just send me an email. [address in profile].
ATB from George
PS: I think Shirakawa rather liked the Beyreuth Choral set!
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by Whizzkid
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Dean,
As far as I know the only boxed set was issued by HMV/EMI on LP and later CD, which contains VPO Studio recordings of 1, not 2, but 3 to 7.
The Second was a VPO BBC TV broadcast from the RAH in 1948, and was easily the worst recording I have ever heard, and the Eighth was the Stockholm account mentioned above from 1948. The Choral is that ill-fated set from Beyreuth ...
Orfeo have found out WF's very last VPO concert of 8 and 7 in that order at Salzburg in August 1954, and this is superb in every way as playing, conducting and recording.
ATB from George
George,
This one is 1 to 9 on EMI
Furtwangler
Dean..
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,
That's the set. I had the LPs! And you know what I think of LPs!
And some of the CD issues, but I never got round to getting them all.
The weak link is the Second as the recording is not [to say the least] good, but they make a nice set. If you enjoy them, then the single issues pointed above are finer still ..
Have fun with this! Do you want the Furtwangler Biography I mentioned above? It is a starting point to examine the man's life, and his significance as a figure both musical and political, through Germany's most difficult times.
Anyway have fun with this. I gave my remaining Furtwangler CDs away a couple of months ago, so unfortunately I cannot give you the recordings mentioned by now!
ATB from George
That's the set. I had the LPs! And you know what I think of LPs!
And some of the CD issues, but I never got round to getting them all.
The weak link is the Second as the recording is not [to say the least] good, but they make a nice set. If you enjoy them, then the single issues pointed above are finer still ..
Have fun with this! Do you want the Furtwangler Biography I mentioned above? It is a starting point to examine the man's life, and his significance as a figure both musical and political, through Germany's most difficult times.
Anyway have fun with this. I gave my remaining Furtwangler CDs away a couple of months ago, so unfortunately I cannot give you the recordings mentioned by now!
ATB from George
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by Whizzkid
George,
I would like to read the book will we have to work something out. So you are saying its probably better to get the individual titles rather than that box set then?
Dean..
I would like to read the book will we have to work something out. So you are saying its probably better to get the individual titles rather than that box set then?
Dean..
Posted on: 22 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
The EMI set is so inexpensive, I would start with it. The individual discs mentioned are mostly mid to premium priced issues, so start on the EMI collection, and "work out from there" would be my advice, because you may find that the collection gives you all you need or want from Furtwangler in the repertoire, and you may find yourself drawn to other great Beethovenians. Not telling you what to do, but trying to make a sane suggestion! The isolated issues can require patience to get as well ...
The book is your's to keep. Just email me and I will parcel it up and post.
ATB from George
PS: Do get the Lucerne Philharmonia Choral recording from 1954 on Tahra. It is less tense than the EMI set, but soooooo much more in tune with the music, and performaed by an orchestra that had the right to claim to being among the very best anywhere! It also happens to be just about the best recording [technically] that I have yet heard in the music [Swiss Radio taping] and is so clear [yet spacious] that not one single detail is left in the shade. The musical balance is exemplary.
The book is your's to keep. Just email me and I will parcel it up and post.
ATB from George
PS: Do get the Lucerne Philharmonia Choral recording from 1954 on Tahra. It is less tense than the EMI set, but soooooo much more in tune with the music, and performaed by an orchestra that had the right to claim to being among the very best anywhere! It also happens to be just about the best recording [technically] that I have yet heard in the music [Swiss Radio taping] and is so clear [yet spacious] that not one single detail is left in the shade. The musical balance is exemplary.
Posted on: 23 June 2008 by Tam
I wouldn't add a huge amount, except to say that the EMI box of (mainly) Vienna recordings is somewhat disappointing. The Bayreuth 9th is the cream of the crop, but you already have that. The 2nd and 8th are good performances but poor sound.
There is a general rule for Furtwangler, that the live recordings are preferable musically to those made in the studio (though there are exceptions such as the Tristan und Isolde, I don't think that you should buy that just yet).
The live 1944 Eroica is a quite extraordinary performance, George hasn't mentioned another Vienna performance from 1950 and the Salzburg festival which is also good.
I would actually suggest this as your next purchase. Dirt cheap if you use the marketplace. It gives you live recordings of the 4th, 5th and 7th symphonies (in remarkably good sound for the early 40s, though by no means great), the Coriolan overture as well as the most moving performance of the violin concerto I have ever heard. You also get some other bonuses such as a wonderful Mozart 39th symphony and a Schubert 9th which is quite thrilling. The only possible reservation about this set is that it was recorded in Berlin during the Nazi era and some people do not like listening to them in light of this.
I think you had another thread about Beethoven not too long ago and I suggested, and will again, the extraordinary Donald Runnicles/Atlanta Symphony Orchestra reading of the 9th. I would also suggest picking up one of the Charles Mackerras's two cycles. The EMI one can be had for is cheaper and slightly better recorded, the SCO one more expensive, more thrilling but suffers from poor recording quality - the BBC have forgotten how to do this.
regards, Tam
There is a general rule for Furtwangler, that the live recordings are preferable musically to those made in the studio (though there are exceptions such as the Tristan und Isolde, I don't think that you should buy that just yet).
The live 1944 Eroica is a quite extraordinary performance, George hasn't mentioned another Vienna performance from 1950 and the Salzburg festival which is also good.
I would actually suggest this as your next purchase. Dirt cheap if you use the marketplace. It gives you live recordings of the 4th, 5th and 7th symphonies (in remarkably good sound for the early 40s, though by no means great), the Coriolan overture as well as the most moving performance of the violin concerto I have ever heard. You also get some other bonuses such as a wonderful Mozart 39th symphony and a Schubert 9th which is quite thrilling. The only possible reservation about this set is that it was recorded in Berlin during the Nazi era and some people do not like listening to them in light of this.
I think you had another thread about Beethoven not too long ago and I suggested, and will again, the extraordinary Donald Runnicles/Atlanta Symphony Orchestra reading of the 9th. I would also suggest picking up one of the Charles Mackerras's two cycles. The EMI one can be had for is cheaper and slightly better recorded, the SCO one more expensive, more thrilling but suffers from poor recording quality - the BBC have forgotten how to do this.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 23 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Thanks Tam,
I completely forgot about the other thread, duh! sorry Tam I'll have another look at it and will investigate yours and George's suggestions.
Dean..
I completely forgot about the other thread, duh! sorry Tam I'll have another look at it and will investigate yours and George's suggestions.
Dean..
Posted on: 23 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean, and Tam,
Yes I did forget/leave out the live Salzburg VPO 1950 Eroica, which I quite agree was much better than simply fine! It was issued by EMI in the Salburger Festspieldokumente Serie, primary published by the Festival Promoters, and is currently deleted, and so something of a dead end currently! The coupling is a deeply controversial reading of the Third and Fifth Brandenburg Concertos with full symphonic scale String Orchestra and Soloists drawn from the VPO with Furtwangler playing a very big piano in the Fifth!
This is facinating, but hardly mainstream Bach playing! The album consisted of two CDs ...
More for Furtwangler afficionados than necessarily for those who love Bach's music, perhaps!!!
George
Yes I did forget/leave out the live Salzburg VPO 1950 Eroica, which I quite agree was much better than simply fine! It was issued by EMI in the Salburger Festspieldokumente Serie, primary published by the Festival Promoters, and is currently deleted, and so something of a dead end currently! The coupling is a deeply controversial reading of the Third and Fifth Brandenburg Concertos with full symphonic scale String Orchestra and Soloists drawn from the VPO with Furtwangler playing a very big piano in the Fifth!
This is facinating, but hardly mainstream Bach playing! The album consisted of two CDs ...
More for Furtwangler afficionados than necessarily for those who love Bach's music, perhaps!!!
George
Posted on: 24 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Hi Guys,
Just listening to the Sir Charles Mackerras SCO box set which I bought for a nice £20 from HMV. Just thought I'd let Tam know I'm listening to his advice this time.
Dean..
Just listening to the Sir Charles Mackerras SCO box set which I bought for a nice £20 from HMV. Just thought I'd let Tam know I'm listening to his advice this time.
Dean..
Posted on: 24 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
May I offer a radical thought? Two Saturdays ago I listened to a Radio Three broadcast of the Fifth on period instruments led by Jos van Immerseel. It impressed me immensely! In fact apart from my favourite 1955 Klemperer performance it was the best I have heard [read: I liked it the best, which I have heard] on records!
That is part of a complete set in brand new recordings offered, I believe, at Budget price. I intend to get this. I have never found an HIP set of Beethoven Symphonies that came close to pleasing me, but this performance did so, and not just a little!
ATB from George
That is part of a complete set in brand new recordings offered, I believe, at Budget price. I intend to get this. I have never found an HIP set of Beethoven Symphonies that came close to pleasing me, but this performance did so, and not just a little!
ATB from George
Posted on: 25 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Second half of the cycle tonight 6 to 9 its been interesting so far especially hearing certain symphonies for the first time.
Dean..
Dean..
Posted on: 25 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,
Do you like them all equally, or did a fvourite emerge?
I think my favourites change almost from day to day!
George
Do you like them all equally, or did a fvourite emerge?
I think my favourites change almost from day to day!
George
Posted on: 27 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Hi George,
At the moment I've found the 4th, 5th & 9th have stood out and grabbed me the most but as you say with more listens that might change as the 2nd, 4th, 7th & 8th are new to me and I have found Classical takes a few plays before I get a grip on whats going on if that makes sense.
Dean..
At the moment I've found the 4th, 5th & 9th have stood out and grabbed me the most but as you say with more listens that might change as the 2nd, 4th, 7th & 8th are new to me and I have found Classical takes a few plays before I get a grip on whats going on if that makes sense.
Dean..
Posted on: 27 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,
I love the Fourth especially. Not more than the Fifth, perhaps, but it is a lovely and fairly gentle piece, which packs an emotional punch even so!
Great to read your posts!
ATB from George
I love the Fourth especially. Not more than the Fifth, perhaps, but it is a lovely and fairly gentle piece, which packs an emotional punch even so!
Great to read your posts!
ATB from George
Posted on: 27 June 2008 by pe-zulu
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
May I offer a radical thought? Two Saturdays ago I listened to a Radio Three broadcast of the Fifth on period instruments led by Jos van Immerseel. It impressed me immensely! In fact apart from my favourite 1955 Klemperer performance it was the best I have heard [read: I liked it the best, which I have heard] on records!
ATB from George
Well, I have heard exerpts from it here:
http://www.zigzag-territoires.com/
and sharing your enthusiasm I am going to acquire it within foreseeable time.
ATB Poul
Posted on: 29 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,
Please do email me. I have some rare and fine Furtwangler recordings in Beethoven I want to send you as a kick-off gift to help cement your enjoyment of Beethoven's music!
George
Please do email me. I have some rare and fine Furtwangler recordings in Beethoven I want to send you as a kick-off gift to help cement your enjoyment of Beethoven's music!
George
Posted on: 29 June 2008 by Whizzkid
Hi Guys,
I have now listened to the Mackerras cycle twice now and at first I was unimpressed and did not connect with the performance. I found the speed (tempi?) fast and they seemed to lack drama but after cranking up the volume a bit on the second run through they came to life and I seemed to have adjusted to the faster pace of the performance now, drama and delicacy appeared and I started to enjoy the music much more. Next maybe another cycle to compare but which one? decisions decisions
Dean..
I have now listened to the Mackerras cycle twice now and at first I was unimpressed and did not connect with the performance. I found the speed (tempi?) fast and they seemed to lack drama but after cranking up the volume a bit on the second run through they came to life and I seemed to have adjusted to the faster pace of the performance now, drama and delicacy appeared and I started to enjoy the music much more. Next maybe another cycle to compare but which one? decisions decisions
Dean..
Posted on: 29 June 2008 by u5227470736789439
Next move really might sensibly be some individual great issues. The Kleibers [father and son], Bruno Walter, Carl Boehm, and many others spring to mind.
This thread has some nice ideas.
http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/38019385/m/8052900517
Also I am not especially fond of cycles as issued by record companies but I do like to assemble the performances from one conductor, though choosing carefully their very best recordings from the several that most serious Beethoven conductors have made in each work.
My list of Klemperer performances in Jeremy B's thread, linked in this post, is what I would suggest, but just try one of them for a start, and get to enjoy it, rather than buying the whole lot [and they are all single issues] and having too much to get to know all at once...
Hope you do not mind me making suggestions. George
This thread has some nice ideas.
http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/38019385/m/8052900517
Also I am not especially fond of cycles as issued by record companies but I do like to assemble the performances from one conductor, though choosing carefully their very best recordings from the several that most serious Beethoven conductors have made in each work.
My list of Klemperer performances in Jeremy B's thread, linked in this post, is what I would suggest, but just try one of them for a start, and get to enjoy it, rather than buying the whole lot [and they are all single issues] and having too much to get to know all at once...
Hope you do not mind me making suggestions. George
Posted on: 29 June 2008 by Whizzkid
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
Hope you do not mind me making suggestions. George
George,
Of course not Classical music is a minefeild for the uninitiated, I'm slowly going through Tam's classical threads round up and I'm changing my mind what to next all the time there is so much stuff to try out. But keep the suggestion coming I can always refer back to them at any time. Anyway I need to buy the last two installments of the Ronald Brautigam Beethoven Piano Sonanta's on BIS which have been very enjoyable especially hearing one on a CDX2/XPS2 the other night.
Dean..
Posted on: 29 June 2008 by Tam
I would agree with George in that you're probably better off looking at some individual issues. In addition to the names mentioned, I'd say Runnicles (in the 9th symphony) Jochum (in any of his 3 complete cycles, the earliest on DG with the Berlin Phil and the Bavarian Radio orchestra is probably the most satisfying - I'm not sure if any of these are available separately), Haitink in 4&8 with the LSO. Barenboim, with his West-Eastern Divan Orchestra in the 5th (they've done the 9th as well, but I haven't heard it yet), Solti is also something to hear in this work, though at times it feels more Solti than Beethoven. Bernstein's recordings are well worth seeking out too. Toscanini and Szell are worth a listen too.
I only have complete cycles from three conductors (out of about 20 sets) which I find completely satisfying. In addition to Mackerras and Jochum, I have great affection for Davis's Dresden set. There are rich and weighty, epic performances and worth a listen (I have no idea if they're available separately though).
regards, Tam
I only have complete cycles from three conductors (out of about 20 sets) which I find completely satisfying. In addition to Mackerras and Jochum, I have great affection for Davis's Dresden set. There are rich and weighty, epic performances and worth a listen (I have no idea if they're available separately though).
regards, Tam
Posted on: 29 June 2008 by pe-zulu
quote:Originally posted by Tam:
I only have complete cycles from three conductors (out of about 20 sets) which I find completely satisfying. In addition to Mackerras.....
Dear Tam
I almost do not dare to ask you: Do you mean the Liverpool or the Scottish cycle.
ATB Poul
Posted on: 29 June 2008 by Tam
I would say both Mackerras cycles, probably.
The Liverpool one I have owned for much longer, and has been consistently satisfying. The Edinburgh concerts were some of the finest experiences I have ever had in the concert hall and the performances were finer (with the possible exception of the 9th where I think the earlier cycle had better soloists and chorus, though a less fine orchestra).
However, the transition to CD is not entirely unproblematic. The recordings are on the harsh side and don't have the detail or balance that they should - which is a disappointing. So while in performance terms they satisfy, I do find them a little frustrating in that I don't think they are what they should be - of course, most other listens won't have such an issue.
However, I wouldn't want to be without either.
regards, Tam
p.s. George mentioned that you were after the Furtwangler Brandeburgs. He has passed them to me but I am happy to pass a copy on.
The Liverpool one I have owned for much longer, and has been consistently satisfying. The Edinburgh concerts were some of the finest experiences I have ever had in the concert hall and the performances were finer (with the possible exception of the 9th where I think the earlier cycle had better soloists and chorus, though a less fine orchestra).
However, the transition to CD is not entirely unproblematic. The recordings are on the harsh side and don't have the detail or balance that they should - which is a disappointing. So while in performance terms they satisfy, I do find them a little frustrating in that I don't think they are what they should be - of course, most other listens won't have such an issue.
However, I wouldn't want to be without either.
regards, Tam
p.s. George mentioned that you were after the Furtwangler Brandeburgs. He has passed them to me but I am happy to pass a copy on.