Quelle MAC a DAC?

Macbook & Macbook Pro share the same audio chip, so they will perform the same in the music department.

thesherrif - you beat me to the punch as I was going to ask a similar question.

The previous poster mentioned that the MacBook and MacBook Pro share the same audio chip - what about the Mac Mini?

Thanks
Gregg

Does the sound change with every OS upgrade and security patch - hmmm never had to put a security patch of the CDX2,

What does it sound like if you are using iWork and iPhoto at the same time as you are playing Beethoven's 5th and downloading the latest version of MetaSploit?

Are you really better off running OS9 on a G5 than OS X (insert wild cat name here) on the new Intel chips or did I just make that up?

Can't help feeling this is not the way I want to go.

ATB Rotf

BTW Apple uses Integrated "Intel High Definition Audio" chipset or it did last time I did last time I lokked, wheras for those fascinated by such things my PowerMac Dual G5 has

Texas Instruments TAS3004:
Crystal Semiconductor CS84xx:
PCM 16: 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz
PCM 24: 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz
AC3 16: 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz

and it makes the tea.

Just admit it...... you want one

quote:

Originally posted by thesherrif:
Just admit it...... you want one

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
[...]

What does it sound like if you are using iWork and iPhoto at the same time as you are playing Beethoven's 5th and downloading the latest version of MetaSploit?

Are you really better off running OS9 on a G5 than OS X (insert wild cat name here) on the new Intel chips or did I just make that up?

Can't help feeling this is not the way I want to go.

ATB Rotf

BTW Apple uses Integrated "Intel High Definition Audio" chipset or it did last time I did last time I lokked, wheras for those fascinated by such things my PowerMac Dual G5 has

Texas Instruments TAS3004:
Crystal Semiconductor CS84xx:
PCM 16: 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz
PCM 24: 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz
AC3 16: 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz

and it makes the tea.

Dear ROTF,

I always found that when attempting to copy or burn CDs on a PC, that it is sensible to close all other programmes. I shall continue to use this approach. If I wanted to post on the Forum about a piece of music, then the post would have to wait - as it does now - till the music has ended ...

One of the reasons why I want to get exactly the model line up I auditioned is that I have no idea whether there are changes in the replay with different opperating systems, even if theory would suggest that there ought not to be. But I know that theories are only the best guess yet and can be shown as wrong! Directionality of NACA5 anyone?

I have no doubt though that MAC, being rather expert in their handling of music files, are likely to get even finer with future models of computer. That is the way it goes. I see no reason to suppose that any Windows based system need necessarily be expected to go the same way as the software is designed not simply for a handful of hardware options as with MAC but for a literally almost infinite number of of possible chipset/motherboard/HD/RAM combinations, and at that with a tremendous variance in quality and cost, and to add to the fun a vast range of potential powers supplies, for the simply terrible to the very good. I like the relative simplicity of the MAC idea of a taylored system. and at the price, I can upgrade the MAC in a short period if something of a significant improvement comes along. With more expensive options it would be a ten year cycle of upgrading simply on the basis of cost proportion!

ATB from George

George

quote:

I have no doubt though that MAC, being rather expert in their handling of music files, are likely to get even finer with future models of computer.

They are? How? I say this as an owner of 4 of them but I think this is a very misleading and technically inaccurate statement.

Cheers

Jim

How about this, Jim,

When EMI were selecting a supplier for the computers to work on their restorations for re-release on CD of their back catalogue of classical recordings, they chose MAC to build the machines.

How about their iTunes software, which put simply works wonderfully?

How about that I have never heard the quality available from a Macbook from any PC with Windows software on it. Even in a recording studio. To get a check result it became necessary to burn the files to CD and bring them to my house, and run the results through my CDS2. A fascinating experience for me.

I am not saying that non-MAC soilutions cannot be first rate, but only that I have never heard this result.

It did not surprise me that a relatively modest MAC could work so much better than any non-MAC PC with music that I have yet come across, going on their past with everyhting from the entirely fine iTunes, their experience of making iPods, which at least means they understand how to make an easily operated system for the user, and their association with EMI over a twenty year period.

First and formost I used my ears, and as ever the individual's own ears must remain the final arbiter. Others have found similar results. Now if there were some ideal PC solution [best selection of chipset/motherboard/HD/RAM/PSU, and optimal OS], no doubt someone would have posted what it is, but as yet this has not been found, I suspect.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
How about this, Jim,

When EMI were selecting a supplier for the computers to work on their restorations for re-release on CD of their back catalogue of classical recordings, they chose MAC to build the machines.

How about their iTunes software, which put simply works wonderfully?

How about that I have never heard the quality available from a Macbook from any PC with Windows software on it. Even in a recording studio. To get a check result it became necessary to burn the files to CD and bring them to my house, and run the results through my CDS2. A fascinating experience for me.

I am not saying that non-MAC soilutions cannot be first rate, but only that I have never heard this result.

It did not surprise me that a relatively modest MAC could work so much better than any non-MAC PC with music that I have yet come across, going on their past with everyhting from the entirely fine iTunes, their experience of making iPods, which at least means they understand how to make an easily operated system for the user, and their association with EMI over a twenty year period.

First and formost I used my ears, and as ever the individual's own ears must remain the final arbiter. Others have found similar results. Now if there were some ideal PC solution [best selection of chipset/motherboard/HD/RAM/PSU, and optimal OS], no doubt someone would have posted what it is, but as yet this has not been found, I suspect.

ATB from George

As a pro audio and broadcast video system integrator I can tell you there are as many good Windows - based solutions in the studios as Mac-based. I have 2 Macbooks, 1 Macbook Pro, 1 MacPro, 1 Powerbook and 1 G4 at home, I do not know how many iPods, 2 iPhones, no PC at all, so I like Apple. But. If you use TCElectronic Konnekt (6,8, 24D, Live, 32, 48) through Firewire, Mytek digital 8x192 A/D/DA with Firewire option, Lynx AES/EBU Card with a Mytek or Lynx Aurora DACs, (just examples from my experience but I can show a dozen of other units equally good), you can build very high quality audio post production solutions for Mac or for PC platforms equally well. No question about it. You just need more experience and a bit more luck for a Windows based solution. One of the very best recording I have ever heard in a studio was made on PCs and using Mytek Digital converters, using 192k/24 bit tracks.

Ferenc, I agree with your comments. It just goes to show you how many variables there are out there which will have an effect on music playback. My experiences so far (excluding Mac/Lavry) have been with the K8 and Nagra. The K8/Firewire/Wavelab Pro played back 16 bit very nicely, but still didn't compare with the Naim CDPs. However, when the above units were hooked up with a HC2 and played Vinyl A/D 24 bit recordings (done using the Nagra for the A/D)--now that was special, especially via the Nagra (K8 still very good, but not in the same league). This was all done with the vinyl done not only with the Nagra as the A/D converter,butalso with the highest quality vinyl systems as the original source and included the use of the stageline/highline/Linn etc... The cost of the Nagra/HC2- $9K.

While I have yet to hear an HDX, I have heard the above and this is why I'm still pondering over all the glowing reviews and performance that others say they are getting with a "Mac" and a $900 Lavry Dac. Admittedly I haven't head the combo, but....

Dear Ferenc,

Thanks for some specifics. I can see no reason why a PC should not have the potential that I know the MAC solution has. If I were still the type to want to build up a PC from scratch, as I have in the past, then I might consider it, but I am content that a Macbook will bring me what I am looking for in a small tidy package of known provenance with the significant advantage of portability over a normal computer in a box.

But for the computer enthusiast your post may well provide invaluable information.

Thanks from George

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
Ferenc, I agree with your comments. It just goes to show you how many variables there are out there which will have an effect on music playback. My experiences so far (excluding Mac/Lavry) have been with the K8 and Nagra. The K8/Firewire/Wavelab Pro played back 16 bit very nicely, but still didn't compare with the Naim CDPs. However, when the above units were hooked up with a HC2 and played Vinyl A/D 24 bit recordings (done using the Nagra for the A/D)--now that was special, especially via the Nagra (K8 still very good, but not in the same league). This was all done with the vinyl done not only with the Nagra as the A/D converter,butalso with the highest quality vinyl systems as the original source and included the use of the stageline/highline/Linn etc... The cost of the Nagra/HC2- $9K.

While I have yet to hear an HDX, I have heard the above and this is why I'm still pondering over all the glowing reviews and performance that others say they are getting with a "Mac" and a $900 Lavry Dac. Admittedly I haven't head the combo, but....

Gary,

you understood my post perfectly well. I wanted to show, that there are all sorts of possibilities to get really good sound. As I mentioned in another topic after living with many Mac/Dac combos using USB, USB2, Firewire, AES/EBU and Toslink connections in the last almost 5 years, I still prefer CDDS3/555PS presentation in my two Naim systems. In other systems I am using other Source/DAC combos with perfectly acceptable sound and music reproduction.

As it is my job to find audio and video solutions for sometimes tricky problems in the broadcast and pro audio/video industries, I used to see high-end audio and home music reproduction probably a bit more complex question then the majority of the users. This is why I can not tolerate easily the simple statements regarding something good and something bad, when a product kills, smokes another product. The over generalization is one of the problems of the hifi forums, but it is probably way offtopic here.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Ferenc,

Thanks for some specifics. I can see no reason why a PC should not have the potential that I know the MAC solution has. If I were still the type to want to build up a PC from scratch, as I have in the past, then I might consider it, but I am content that a Macbook will bring me what I am looking for in a small tidy package of known provenance with the significant advantage of portability over a normal computer in a box.

But for the computer enthusiast your post may well provide invaluable information.

Thanks from George

Hi George,

It is true that it takes more effort, knowledge and patience to build a good audio system on a PC. If you want somehow easier and smoother path, than a Mac-based system can be better choice. You just have to be open for all kind of solutions, then you have a chance to find something really good solution. I really have bad experience with the very jittery Toslink output of the Mac(book, bookPro, Mini) and AE. I could get much better result using USB2 or Firewire interfaces, or AES/EBU with a PCI(e) card, and I think using internally in an HDX a PCI bus for moving the data is a very clever solution.

quote:

Originally posted by ferenc:

Hi George,

It is true that it takes more effort, knowledge and patience to build a good audio system on a PC. If you want somehow easier and smoother path, than a Mac-based system can be better choice.

To be fair, I think that is all anybody on the thread has so far said. Nobody has said you can't get good sound from a PC, merely that it seems more difficult (without a bit of technical knowledge). Maybe they are getting easier to set up. The last two I had, XP then Vista were not and I suspect that I needed to play with sound cards and other gubbins to get it right. For me, life is too short and the Mac just worked.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
George

quote:

I have no doubt though that MAC, being rather expert in their handling of music files, are likely to get even finer with future models of computer.

They are? How? I say this as an owner of 4 of them but I think this is a very misleading and technically inaccurate statement.

Cheers

Jim

I too have several Apple Macs around and I don't think they are great at handling sound files; they are no worse than a PC though - Apple writes great software in general, but I'm not convinced that the sound output from the various interfaces is a key design decision. OS X is a general purpose OS, not one designed to play music.

Also the Apple OS on any Mac will need updating almost every couple of weeks - does it get better each time - I don't think so.

Dear George

You'll have trouble closing all the applications on a Mac. Some run without you even knowing. My Mac is currently running among other things

/sbin/dynamic_pager -F /private/var/vm/swapfile
kextd
/usr/sbin/KernelEventAgent
/usr/sbin/mDNSResponder -launchdaemon
/usr/sbin/netinfod -s local
/usr/sbin/syslogd
/usr/sbin/cron
/usr/sbin/configd
/usr/sbin/coreaudiod
/usr/sbin/diskarbitrationd
/usr/sbin/memberd -x
/usr/sbin/securityd
/usr/sbin/notifyd
/usr/sbin/distnoted
/usr/sbin/DirectoryService
/usr/sbin/update

I'm sure I don't need half those demons running

Then there's those pesky widgets

I bet it is different every time you use it.

ATB Rotf

ROTF

quote:

I too have several Apple Macs around and I don't think they are great at handling sound files; they are no worse than a PC though - Apple writes great software in general, but I'm not convinced that the sound output from the various interfaces is a key design decision. OS X is a general purpose OS, not one designed to play music.

That was my point - there is absolutely nothing special about how Mac's handle sound files and although I'm a "Mac fan' in general and the results generated and experienced by many on here are no doubt real, I just can't see how Apple brings any magic pixie dust to the party.

Cheers

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Steve S1:

quote:

Originally posted by ferenc:

Hi George,

It is true that it takes more effort, knowledge and patience to build a good audio system on a PC. If you want somehow easier and smoother path, than a Mac-based system can be better choice.

To be fair, I think that is all anybody on the thread has so far said. Nobody has said you can't get good sound from a PC, merely that it seems more difficult (without a bit of technical knowledge). Maybe they are getting easier to set up. The last two I had, XP then Vista were not and I suspect that I needed to play with sound cards and other gubbins to get it right. For me, life is too short and the Mac just worked.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I reacted to George's post, as somebody who has daily experience installing systems in studios:

quote:

How about that I have never heard the quality available from a Macbook from any PC with Windows software on it. Even in a recording studio.

That's it.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
George

quote:

I have no doubt though that MAC, being rather expert in their handling of music files, are likely to get even finer with future models of computer.

They are? How? I say this as an owner of 4 of them but I think this is a very misleading and technically inaccurate statement.

Cheers

Jim

I too have several Apple Macs around and I don't think they are great at handling sound files; they are no worse than a PC though - Apple writes great software in general, but I'm not convinced that the sound output from the various interfaces is a key design decision. OS X is a general purpose OS, not one designed to play music.

Also the Apple OS on any Mac will need updating almost every couple of weeks - does it get better each time - I don't think so.

Dear George

You'll have trouble closing all the applications on a Mac. Some run without you even knowing. My Mac is currently running among other things

.......

I'm sure I don't need half those demons running

Then there's those pesky widgets

I bet it is different every time you use it.

ATB Rotf

I am using an 8 GB Kingston USB flash drive with a 10.5.4 OS X OS on it. It takes some effort, but you can fit a Leopard OS on the 8GB flash memory. My system is booting from the flash drive and connects to a MacPro as as server with 6 TB of SCSI RAID protected storage through Ethernet. The internal Hard Drive is unmounted so there is no moving part except the fan in the system. It plays from the flash and from the 4 GB RAM, but mainly from the 4 GB RAM.

I have a Firewire board in the Mytek Digital 8x192 A/D/D/A converter which connects to the Mac.


I can say it is far the best sounding computer - based music player I have ever had. Price is not too far from the HDX unfortunately if I combine all the elements and this this system can play back my 176.4k and 192k / 24 bit and 128x DSD files really well from the server through the network.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
I believe there are new MacBooks due any day now. Styled along the lines of the MacBook Air. I would imagine they will contain the newer range of Intel processors too. Nobody is sure what will become of the Mac Mini, maybe someone more in the know than me can add to this.

True.... next week according to my mole. Which should mean that there will be some bargain prices on existing models.