XPS conundrum

Posted by: Jim Ashton on 22 June 2003

Hi folks,

Just spent most of the weekend experiencing the addition to my home system of a 2/h XPS (about 4 years old I believe) from my local dealer.

To put it bluntly I was underwhelmed.

Took it home last Thursday night and put it straight into the system to warm it up. I was otherwise busy for most of the evening but music was playing in the background some of the time (esp.on the Kans in the kitchen) and I did sit down to listen 'informally' to a few tracks every so often.

Initial impression: sounded great but not much different really from the 'bare' CDX.

On Saturday I spent hours listening carefully to rapid-fire A/B comparisons of XPS/no-XPS using favourite tracks. At times I heard (or thought I heard) various improvements, including a slightly more 'analogue' sound (reduced digital 'hardness'), a slightly tighter bass, complex multi-instrumental passages that made a little more sense musically etc. None of these differences was anything other than very subtle however, and at no stage could I point to anything really
significant or consistent. So basically my initial impression was never seriously challenged, and today the XPS has been duly returned to sender with a polite 'thanks but no thanks'.

I have to say that this outcome is quite a surprise. The asking price of NZ$4500 is not a small amount of money to me, but I was fully prepared at the outset to be unable to do without it once I'd heard it. I should also probably make it clear that I absolutely love the sound of my system as it stands - on both LP and CD - an opinion which dates in particular from the point when I went active.
I consider it to be significant that the XPS test has in no way diminished the truth of that statement. Finally, I honestly don't think that in a blindfold test I'd be able consistently to pick which was which between XPS & no-XPS.

So what's going on here? A number of alternatives have suggested themselves to me (and naturally they are by no means mutually exclusive), to wit:

1. I have cloth ears - actually I KNOW I have cloth ears and I've just been masquerading as a 'Hi-Fi buff' all these years whilst not having a clue what I was wittering on about - there I've said it. But my wife (whom I consider to have better ears than mine, but who admittedly wants to spend the dosh on something else) and 18-year-old music enthusiast of a son agreed with me...

2. XPS was stuffed in some way - dealer is investigating this one.

3. Some other part of my system is acting as a sufficiently limiting factor to prevent the XPS shining through - what could it be? The 15-year-old 72 (never serviced) ? The equally aged Ruarks that I recently dismembered to remove the passive crossovers? But then why does it sound so bloody good without the XPS? (add that last line to all points below)

4. My listening room is too small (it is actually, but not by much), I need better stands (I use a couple of late-80's Sound Organisation towers), I need to upgrade the speaker cable (A4), I need a better mains power source (it's a dedicated 6mm spur from the fuseboard that I installed myself, with a box on the end sporting 8 UK-style 15 amp round-pin gold-plated sockets and a couple of recently added NZ-type sockets, all wired up inside like a mini-ring main) etc.

5. It's the type of music I listen to - typically the sort of modern jazz that makes some people scream and shout. But I also like coutry, folk, rock ... just no classical, OK?

6. I have simply found my natural resting place on the ladder and never need to worry about upgrading ever again (which is WHY it sounds so bloody good...)

Would the esteemed and most erudite members of this distinguished forum perchance have any other suggestions?

Ta
Jim
Posted on: 24 June 2003 by Nigel Cavendish
You should be able to hear an immediate and obvious improvement in adding an XPS in an A/B test - if you can't don't buy it - and don't buy what those who tell you otherwise are saying either. Listen to them and you will end up like Ross B who takes months to decide he doesn't like what he has already bought.

cheers

Nigel

Posted on: 24 June 2003 by Rico
clarification - I'm not suggesting that the XPS is a subtle change to the CDX. Jim is having trouble with the changes.

What I am suggesting is that the XPS improves significantly over a couple of days.

Additionally, my suggested dem style is tailored to those who don't immediately "get" the difference. If at the end of a couple of days (normally acceptable with most good dealers on a home-dem basis) on removing the item under dem the punter doesn't miss the offending item... perhaps there's other areas better addressed - discuss with your dealer.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Thomas K
... can be tricky, IMO.

Put a different speaker at the end of your sistem, and you will notice something immediately because the presentation can be fundamentally different. With digital sources, however, there are hardly any that don't give you a near flat response. Still, many punters will listen for the hifi stuff first (myself included), which can be distracting.

In general, I've demmed stuff many a times thinking "oh, that's excellent", only to realize later that a few improvements came with a lot of drawbacks (this happened to me with super duper mains cables). Conversely, I've demmed stuff that made me skeptical at first, but satisfied after prolonged listening.

I suppose it depends a lot on your personal preferences, but I find A/B dems simply never give you the *whole* picture (unless all you want to ascertain is whether there's more/less bass, cleaner/harsher treble etc.).

Thomas

[This message was edited by Thomas K on WEDNESDAY 25 June 2003 at 11:12.]
Posted on: 26 June 2003 by Jim Ashton
The affable Mr.Vivian has talked me into giving the 82 a whirl - 'for my own peace of mind' - yeah right!

I will report in due course.

Jim
Posted on: 27 June 2003 by Matthew T
quote:
3. Some other part of my system is acting as a sufficiently limiting factor to prevent the XPS shining through - what could it be? The 15-year-old 72 (never serviced) ? The equally aged Ruarks that I recently dismembered to remove the passive crossovers? But then why does it sound so bloody good without the XPS? (add that last line to all points below)



15 years with no service, get this done before you look at upgrading, suspect the 82 will sound amazing in comparison.

Matthew
Posted on: 28 June 2003 by redeye
Bump &

Jim, how goes it 82-wise??

curious, redeye
Posted on: 01 July 2003 by TommyT
Hi,
I took my XPS to a friend's at the weekend. System was CDX, 82, 2xHi, 250 on a decent rack with 12" gap between each shelf and Linn Keilidh speakers. By the end of the evening we summarised the addition of the XPS as going from Hi-Fi to music. There was much more life to the sound, each note could be heard, absence of glare, glassiness, etc.
Interestingly, a recent in-shop demo failed to show this level of improvement. Perhaps an XPS will only really shine in a well set up system?
Rgds,
Tom
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Jim Ashton
G'dday punters

I've been preoccupied teaching an SQL course for the last 3 days.

The 82 is very seductive and definitely represents a significant upgrade - much more so than the XPS to my ears, though I'm beginning to think I should've allowed the X to warm up for alot longer (like a few days). Concisely put, the 82 (even with a single aged HiCap) lowers the floor, raises the ceiling and brings everything in between out of the murk.

Having said all of that the 72 remains a damn good little preamp and I know I could live with it for the forseeable future if I had to.

Whether I can afford the 82 is the issue basically. I was a little disappointed to discover that it has no phono stage and that I'm going to have to pay extra for the requisite boards. I'm waiting for a total figure from Shore HiFi and in the meantime agonising and vacillating (but enjoyng the 82).

Man, the stuff we put ourselves through...

Yowza
Jim
Posted on: 03 July 2003 by plynnplynn
Jim
Glad to see that your findings have been similar to mine. The 82 is a significant improvement.
Terry
Posted on: 03 July 2003 by steve watts
Jim,

Keep the updates going.

This one is of particular interest to me, having gone through the XPS stage.

The trick has been mentioned in previous posts - good seperation from the CDX and a long warm up period.

I'm currently debating a 282 or s/h 82/250 but get palpatations at the thought of losing the 72. I'm very satisfied with it overall.

As you say, the things we put ourselves through.

Steve
Posted on: 07 July 2003 by Jim Ashton
Slight return

Steve

The 82 is without question a significantly better pre-amp than the trusty old 72 - have no fear or doubt.

Nonetheless, it's gone back. I just ain't got the $$ right now, which is a shame and I am feeling a little miserable. I just have to console myself with the thought that I still have a system that casually eviscerates what most people get to listen to.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to my thread.
Jim
Posted on: 07 July 2003 by redeye
Or failing that my 102,napsc for 50 bucks Frown

redeye
Posted on: 07 September 2003 by steve watts
As a post script.

It's now two weeks since I installed my late model 82.

Just put the 72 back in.......and quickly took it out again.

I was just beginning to think that there really was not much difference between the two.

Night and day, as they say.

Steve
Posted on: 08 September 2003 by prowla
Sometimes it seems that you can only tell what you've got when you take it back out.
(Hmm - reminds me of the words to a song...)

Paul Rowlands