GWBush demo

The Ov(r)al Offi(ri)ce apparentyl at present enjoys a bust of Sir Winston Churchill in it's midst. George gains inspiration from it on those hard rainy days, when things don't turn out how they should God Dammit. Where I come from, Men who don't drink can't be trusted, as silly as it may be, Sir Winston never stopped this medication throughjout his life. Her Majesty is not immune to the fact that she is being used by the Whitehouse machine (Nor is the brilliant Tony Blair) but they recognise they must bow to it's power and play ball (or Cricket) as it's known in England. Lest you be misguided by it all, it's Politics (ie. Power) pure and simple, as Diplomatic as you please to take it ? "Where's your alternative ?" So USA & Europe be AWARE, thjat you are not alone on this Planet of ours, innit.

Fritz Von Takeaway.

Graham Ricketts

So, the Mirror journo who was in the Palace and in a position to murder the Queen, Charles, The Corgi's and Georgie Bush was named Parry.

Any relation?

ag

quote:

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The country is not in a mess, in fact it is quite healthy and most of us have never had it so good. There are more consumables sold today than ever before. Therefore we have more goodies to play with.

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Mick

The growth in consumer spending is fuelled by spiralling consumer debt and people taking additional mortgages on their homes. Leading to more repossessions as people can't keep up the payments.

This has led to an interest rate rise - I believe that this made the newspapers, even the Daily Hatemail. Further rate rises are widely predicted, unless consumer spending is reigned in. A rise in interest rates will necessarily lead to less competitive manufacturing, just as that sector was starting to recover.

As manufacturing gets less than competitive, imports will rise. Buggering the balance of payments, and leading to more unemployment, meaning more people can't pay their mortgage and/or take on additional expensive debt.

You are old enough to remember the 80's, and you should know how it works. If you would like to borrow some of my O Level Economics books (I have the collection, right through to degree level), it will help you understand how economics and econometrics really work (other than the Parry Toy Scale of National Afluence, of course).

All the best,

ag

Stop waffling.

Debt is choice, no one forced it on anyone.

The truth is simple, more goods equals more affluence, we have more goods and we have never had it so good.

Yes there will be a recession in a few years time but there has always been recessions. The point is that today you have never had it so good.

Regards

Mick

No relation to Dave Parry (RN SM) are yer by any chance Son ? that'd be a nice co-i innit.

Tschuß. Swindon.

Have one on me John.

Graham Ricketts (J)

.

Took yer time Son:

Wiltshire's luvvly this time ov year innit matey.

Fritz Von Special Twig

Graham Ricketts

Mick

Your ignorance astounds me.

I am in awe.

ag

Re the issues surrounding Iraq, what do people think of the fact that the coalition found mass graves and warehouses with hundreds of corpses/skeletions there in. Is murder on this scale not as horrific as WMD?
Could it be that we are selfish in that WMD would affect us, but the murder of the hundreds previously described does not?
Whilst the war was instigated due to WMD, the finding of such graves etc does go someway to vindicating the action taken, doesn't it?
We did deal with murder on this scale in Cosovo/Yugoslavia...

Your pesimism astounds me

Mick

Andy C. said "Re the issues surrounding Iraq, what do people think of the fact that the coalition found mass graves and warehouses with hundreds of corpses/skeletions there in"

The warehouses full of corpses were actually dead Iranian soldiers from the Iran/Iraq war (when Iraq was on our side) originally stored for possible repatriation.

Of course nobody disputes that Saddam was an evil despot but its not really the point in all of this and this sort of post-war reasoning is just the last tenuous star of justificaiton clutched at by Bush and Blair.

Matthew

Just a thought (no apologies for an oblique return to Iraq) but what if...

Clinton had been the man who decided that it was time to send the troops into Iraq ... a number of months later Clinton makes a presidential visit to the UK ... would we be seeing the same reaction as we are seeing being directed at Bush?

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by MichaelC:
Just a thought (no apologies for an oblique return to Iraq) but what if...

Clinton had been the man who decided that it was time to send the troops into Iraq ... a number of months later Clinton makes a presidential visit to the UK ... would we be seeing the same reaction as we are seeing being directed at Bush?

Mike

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Fuck, no way!!

Frankly, I think Clinton would have taken an equally hard line against 'ganistan and Iraq. After the African bombings, he did lob about 40 cruise missles, no? Some balls, at least. Clinton would have been more succesful in putting together a coalition before Iraq because he did not carry the crushing burden of stupidity on his shoulders in the eyes of your Europeans. I understand fully why nobody respects or trusts Bush. At least the French understand a good cigar. And, he would have run a cleaner post-war campaign. I was in favor of the war, and support what we are doing now and need to do in the future, but I can't swallow the Haliburton thing. Why, for Christ's sake, does Bush and Cheney HAVE to fullfill ever singly expectation we have of insider, big biz, Good 'ol boys?

However, when its all said and done, and whether it is a matter of shear luck or the quality of W's economic advisors, NOBODY with a clear conscious can claim that the tax cuts are not doing exactly what the good 'ol boys said they would. Christ - this recession was brought about by (1) irrational exhuberance in the late 1990's and (2) 9-11 - NOT by Bush's economic policies (obviously). But I'll be god damned if his economic policies aren't lifting the US out of this recession. It's no longer a jobless recovery.

BTW, I wonder if you your folks in the UK Germany feel that your economic fortunes are tied to US economic policy and the general health of our economy? Do you look to wallstreet?


Judd

Get yer Steel Prices right Buddy, then maybe we've got a Deal ?
Old European Fritz

Graham Ricketts

Clinton got huge heat from the left over Kosovo and the Aspirin factory in Somalia. If he had behaved like Bush he would have recieved similar protests -- as indeed has Blair who's politics are of course very similar to Clinton's.

However, the chances are that if Clinton had been in the Whitehouse on 9/11 the events would have unfolded in a very different way. No doubt he would have made msitakes as well but its a fair bet that all that goodwill that the US gained from those terrible events would not have been squandered and reveresd as Bush managed in about 6 months.

On steel tarrifs there is actually strong evidence that the move has completely backfired on the US and led to increased unemployment -- it has knock on effects in indistries reliant on steel as they now cannot get their raw materials at competitive prices. Someone I know is Wall Street corresponendt for the Daily Telegraph and has written extensively on the subject. And despite Bush's blatant attempt at securing a few votes, the US steel industry is still catastrophically inefficient compared to Europe and will still ahve to go through a very painful rationalisation process in the not too distant future.

Matthew

"Why, for Christ's sake, does Bush and Cheney HAVE to fullfill ever singly expectation we have of insider, big biz, Good 'ol boys?"

Becuase they are insider, big biz, good 'ol boys?

Matthew

quote:

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Debt is choice, no one forced it on anyone.

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Tell that to all of us who've been to uni in the last 12 years... And no, I couldn't get a part time/summer job - it's called disabled discrimination...

As for the "other" type of debt - buying houses during a boom, I have no sympathy. Buying to let/holiday homes forcing first time buyers out, people moving away from areas they can afford to live in to force people out of areas they were born in (Devon, nuch???).. Greedy people always get what they deserve; it's peopple who can't afford to buy due to the crap way mortgages are assessed, yet have to afford to pay for more in rent that get the sharp stabbing pain up their butt. And no, don't panic, that's not a personal attack - I'm peed off with the banks; rents can be assessed by external bodies so that's not landlords' faults per se.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Yes there will be a recession in a few years time but there has always been recessions. The point is that today you have never had it so good.

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Good - let's hope it's soon. My job'll be reasonably safe and I might well be able to buy a house from some aforementioned greedy person who's ambitions were too big for their wallet....

Bowahahahaha!!!!

Sorry for the hijack - now back to Blair's bush... Eeeuw - what a revolting thought...

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

quote:

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Originally posted by domfjbrown:
My job'll be reasonably safe and I might well be able to buy a house from some aforementioned greedy person who's ambitions were too big for their wallet....

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Dom - Thought you were about to walk out of your job

Matthew,

quote:

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The warehouses full of corpses were actually dead Iranian soldiers from the Iran/Iraq war (when Iraq was on our side) originally stored for possible repatriation.

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Do you have a link for that? It wouldn't surprise me if U.S. mainstream media glossed over such a discovery (that the dead were Iranian soldiers from the Iran-Iraq war), but some of the other sources I turn to for news and analysis would have almost certainly picked up on it. And yet I seemed to have missed it.

Joe

Joe,

It was widely reported at the time. Although obviously not as widely reported as the original suggestion that Saddam was responsible for a warehouse full of dead people which is why the concept of warehouses full of bodies seems to persist.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1855051
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-04-06-morgue-bodies-found_x.htm

Obviously there are mass graves in Iraq and Saddam did kill lots of people. AFAICT, however, he did not store their bodies in warehouses (which would be an odd thing to do if you think about it).

Matthew

Even the BBC has something nice to say about the North of Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3282119.stm

What do you make of this. If Baghdad looked like Mosul, would there be 10,000 people in Trafilgar square today? And if so, on what grounds? Against what do you protest when the US and UK are being successful in making Iraq a better place?

Judd

quote:

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Originally posted by Rasher:
Dom - Thought you were about to walk out of your job

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I wish - like Jip in Human Traffic, I take the corporate cockshafting because I have to pay the RENT (not MORTGAGE!). Grrr. I don't think this thing is in my job description though so when my boss gets back on Monday....

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Get a grip, you are becoming a professional whinger.

No one forces anyone to go to university. If they go, they know at the outset that they will end up in debt. It is their choice.

No one forces you to stay in your job, you can become a hippie if you wish.

In other words, you are the architect of your own destiny same as the rest of us.

Buy a book on positive thinking, it will do you the world of good.

Regards

Mick

Mick Parry, please bugger off, and take Fritz with you.

I have been here longer than you, so you bugger off.

Bloody upstarts