USA - Land of Freedom and Democracy

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
It is irony. It is a well known fact that Americans don't understand irony and you prove it.

It's also a well known fact that Fox News broadcasts packs of lies. Didn't stop you from using them to try and make your weak-ass point, though. You really should investigate some quality sources (sh*t in, sh*t out as they say).

How about this source? truthout

google

See if you can find a report that substantially disagrees with Fox News on this story. Fox News oh the irony!

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
How about this source? truthout

See? Googling is easy! You've made me proud.

(BTW, the truthout thing is funny. First, same fox news youtube bits. Then the headline:
Police Action on Journalists at Melee Is Assailed
By {journalists}

Summary: "They suck!" says telemundo. "Outrage!" says various other reporters.

Note to reporters: In the future, if riot police are advancing with batons and rubber bullets, MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA LIKE THEY SAY TO DO. Complicated, I know, but it'll help.)

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:
see (as in "we shall...")?

Could be "see". Could be any other verb in the English language, too. I'm going to guess "itch" Yes, Acad, we shall itch at the next US elections.

Not if those nice Diebold voting machines are going to be used again - you won't be itching you will be feeling a pain in the ass from the shafting you are getting.

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:
[QUOTE]

Note to reporters: In the future, if riot police are advancing with batons and rubber bullets, MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA LIKE THEY SAY TO DO. Complicated, I know, but it'll help.)

Well no doubt it helped the reporters in Chile and Nazi Germany and in plenty of other tin-pot dictatorships.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
you will be feeling a pain in the ass from the shafting you are getting.

Wow, Acad, you're sort of an ugly individual. I'm as glad as you are that you're not an American... well, uless innit* is somewhere in Oklahoma. No, I bet innit* is a really perfect place, with no crime or anything. and puppies. Puppies everywhere. I suppose that's why you have to look all the way over here to fuel your vitriol.

I must book a flight to innit*. Unless it's in Oklahoma.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
Well no doubt it helped the reporters in Chile and Nazi Germany and in plenty of other tin-pot dictatorships.

Ding ding ding ding!!!!

We have a winner, folks... less than two pages in before he plays the Nazi card. Godwin's Law prevails yet again! That's some good, good internet, right there.

There is crime here. We have American TV, American computer games, American rap type gun culture and drugs. We are also getting fatter and we vote for warmongering liars.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
There is crime here. We have American TV, American computer games, American rap type gun culture and drugs. We are also getting fatter and we vote for warmongering liars.

Sounds like Oklahoma. Forget it, I'm not coming.

Personally I would kick all American 'culture' out of the country - McDonalds and Will & bloody grace. Good riddance says I.

I would keep ER and Frasier though and my local Starbuck's but all the other would have to go.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
Personally I would kick all American 'culture' out of the country - McDonalds and Will & bloody grace. Good riddance says I.

Common ground at last. I feel ya', mah brutha.

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:

While we're bringing up non sequiturs, I'll answer your question with one of my own: Why do you think Shipton, Rickards, and Collum were acquitted in the Louise Nicholas case?

Oh, this one's easy. Shipton, Rickards, and Schollum were acquitted because the jury returned a verdict of not-guilty and the Judge entered an acquittal.

This is because:

1) Juries as whole these days seem to be looking more for coherent stories upon which to base convictions, rather than credible evidence and a structured prosecution and defence based upon that evidence. The defence managed to use this to their clients' advantage better than Crown managed to.

2) It is extremely difficult to obtain convictions on historical sexual offence charges. This is because there is almost never physical evidence able to be presented to a jury and the case nearly always hinges upon the complainant's word against the defendant's word.

3) Given 2), when a lone complainant is put against multiple accused parties the weight of the adversarial system starts to work very distinctly against the complainant.

4) Given 2) and 3), when the multiple accused parties are all experienced police officers and are seasoned in giving testimony in Court, the odds start to really stack up against the complainant's finding justice in that Court.

why do i get the feeling this thread was a "yank baiter?" am i paranoid, or ....

but "a cad" likes tavener (watch your spelling on this one, sonnie, don't want you to end up in the 16th c.) and part. he wouldn't try to create a negative vibe.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:

If one were a true American patriot one would be appalled by the action of the LAPD and outraged by the US invasion of iraq and disgusted by the support the US gives to Israeli aparthied

Then I'm a true American patriot.

(By the way, I omitted the bit about "ethnic cleansing" because while I don't support Israel's policy towards the Palestinians, there is no evidence of wholesale ethnic cleansing, a la the Nazis, Serb/Bosnia, Darfur, Cambodia, Native Americans, etc. Apartheid, yes ... oppression, yes. But not genocide.)

In a way, America is the embodiment of much of what is best in human endeavor, and much of what is worst. My perception is that others in the world don't so much hate Americans as they hate American policy.

All best,
Fred

quote:

I feel ya', mah brutha.

This is top quality stuff jayd, I haven't seen as good as this since Throbnorth stopped posting.

a cad sez: "It is a well known fact that Americans don't understand irony and you prove it."

query: is there some point to this statement, or are we just blowing off a little nascent adolescent steam? i mean, i could just as accurately say "it is a well known fact that all brits are complete wankers, and YOU prove it." are we all just trolls hiding behind our black boxes here??

believe me, i feel a lot worse than you english do about bush and co., the lapd, the lack of housing and health care, diebold, homeland security -- it's my city and my country and i've had the distinct pleasure of being personally assaulted by the lapd, having grown up here. and i don't think i ever voted for a president who won.

hmmm. think i'll go back to the music site. it's more fun.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
It is irony. It is a well known fact that Americans don't understand irony and you prove it.

That's some "FACT" there Acad. Ranks up there with Irish being thick, Germans humourless.... ..must go now gotta email all my friends out West and tell them that thay can't possibly be American as they have so often demonstrated an understanding of, and even a capability to express irony.


Regards,

Willy.

Fucking ell, don't tell me Acad is British?

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

In a way, America is the embodiment of much of what is best in human endeavor, and much of what is worst. My perception is that others in the world don't so much hate Americans as they hate American policy.

All best, Fred

Dear Fred,

I more or less agree, thoough I would say "sometime hate US policy" as there are times when US policy is without any doubt on my part very good, and not just for the US - though the current administration is something I look forward to ending when GWB is replaced by a new President at the appointed time. I tend to hope that the next general election will lead to a change of governement in the UK as well...

Sincerely, Fredrik Fiske.

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:

Note to reporters: In the future, if riot police are advancing with batons and rubber bullets, MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA LIKE THEY SAY TO DO. Complicated, I know, but it'll help.)

I agree with this pov entirely, and I have the same opinion about the shootings on "Bloody Sunday"; if a load of Paratroopers open fire, its time to get out of Dodge.

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:

Note to reporters: In the future, if riot police are advancing with batons and rubber bullets, MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA LIKE THEY SAY TO DO. Complicated, I know, but it'll help.)

I guess if those football fans in Rome had done what they were told to by the Italian police then they would not have been beaten up either.

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:
....................

Note to reporters: In the future, if riot police are advancing with batons and rubber bullets, MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA LIKE THEY SAY TO DO. Complicated, I know, but it'll help.)

Spot on! Hysterically screaming politico reporters really are not helpful when you are trying to police a demonstration.

Just listen to her "you can not do that, you can not do that" well he just did so grow up and MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA!

In France the French riot police (the CRS) have a good system. If you see them on the street then go home or get off the street straight away. If you don't you stand a very good chance of getting clubbed. They can often disperse a troublesome crown just by turning up.

If you want to change something write to your MP or elect a new MP or stand as an MP but don't go out and riot on the street it's very uncivilised.

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:



I guess if those football fans in Rome had done what they were told to by the Italian police then they would not have been beaten up either.

wrong, but never mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:


I have nothing against US citizens, but I object to the way that all post 1945 administrations seem to think they not only can rule world events, apply The US's own version of civilisation, and completely fail to account for others in its calculations. Any country whose leaders say what was said about the French for example when that country's governement refused to get involved the ridiculous Iraq invasion, really diserves the distrust it is increasinbly getting from Europe.

Kindest regards from Fredrik

Frederik,

you might bear in mind that without the massive investment by the USA in the defence of W Europe post 45, you probably wouldn't be free to post things like this....


And having made that huge, unconditional guarantee of W Europe's freedom, including covering us with their nuclear arsenal which placed their own cities at risk, just maybe the Americans might feel that some sort of payback from France or Germany could be reasonable?

Just a thought.....

Jo

Dear Jo,

I agree that you might think so. I might even agree! But if the position that the US [before the start of the Second Gulf war in Iraq] put its Allies into with a request for help in an obviously [even at the time] ill-founded campaign means that an inevitable choice will be made as to whether continued close ties with the US are in the interst of the Nations concerned, even considering the History. France and Germany, for two examples, made a different choice from that made by Blair for Britain [with no general and popular enthusiasm for the idea from the electorate]. I believe that France and Germany made the right decision. I am also sure that there has been irreperable damage done to the "special relationship" between the US governement [and even perhaps its people] and Britain [certainly among its people] by Blair and his governement's support for the US in this. Equally, I am sure that we shall never again see such support as Britain received from the US government as we had in the Falklands War, though this support must have been based as much as anything on the US administration not allowing Britain to be defeated with a hostile Soviet Administration still miltarising the Eastern Block in Europe. We are less important now in world terms [to the US governement] than twenty five years ago, when we were still playing a major part in the "Cold War" on Communism.

Times change, and consequent perpectives shift. In view of the recent past I reckon we have greater National interests, here in UK, persuing trading and politcal relations with Europe [though not necessarily a stronger politcal union via the EU], and the rest of the World, than playing second fiddle in US Foreign Policy, which seriously damages our relationship with almost every other Country in the World.

If it serves our interests of course we shall find our government supporting the US, but I hope that the blind faith shown by Blair over the Iraq adventure is the last time we shall do something so deleterious to our own National interests just to maintain a historically increasingly less significant realtionship. We can only serve one master as a Nation, and that must be our own National best interest. That or become just one more state in the US, which I guess would not gain popular support in UK.

Sincerely, Fredrik

PS: I do agree that the the US contribution to European freedom after 1945 was huge, but it certainly was not "unconditional." But even the US governement has learned, perhaps, that it cannot push all the European States around as it might wish even after this huge effort. This is a good sign showing that most Europeans are moving on both from WW2 and the closure of the Cold War.