The fly in the ointment

What are the systems sitting on?
Are the Lyras much harder to drive than the Antares?
My Naim system has run the gamut from syurpy soft to mind drillingly hard- all due to different setup.

Thanks for your prompt reply.

Shouty system: The CDX sits on 3 layers of 1/2" MDF, separated by levelling screws and cones as follows. The bottom layer is leveled on the heads of 4 wood screws. Idem for layer 2; layer 3 (directly under the CDX) is supported by three cones. The 72 sits atop the CDX, on another MDF board, again on levelling screws. The whole system sits inside an antique pine armoire (for concealment).... Methinks a photo is in order...

Smooth system: The Genki sits on a sandbox support, ie, 1/2" MDF resting on layer of coarse sand; the Nait rests on a wooden shelf inside yet another antique armoire.

The Lyras are more efficient than the Antares (89 vs 84, I believe).

The systems are in different houses by the way.

Again, thank you!

quote:

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My Naim system has run the gamut from syurpy soft to mind drillingly hard- all due to different setup

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Interesting. Is this with the same system? By setup are you referring to supports, or more? What was the setup that resulted in "mind drilling hardness" (that sounds all too familiar!). Perhaps there are lessons for me there.

Jan

Hello again Mike,

I see poutine is listed among your interests. Are you an ex-pat (la belle province) by any chance?

System 1 looks like this :

http://janerik.tripod.ca/

Hi Jan,

I appreciate that you probably want to keep your system in the armoire, so lets work with that.

Try:

-Placing the 72 on the shelf above the CDX.

-If your speakers are bi-wireable, plug into the tweeter terminals

-Keep Black Snaics away from Grey Snaics. When they must touch, cross them at right angles.

-Is the CDX itself perfectly level?

-Place the CDX on just one MDF level, or directly on the armoire shelf.

-Where's the LP12?

-Toeing in and/or placing the speakers closer to the wall. Are all speaker spikes making contact with the floor and nuts not too tight?

That's all I can think of for now, hope it helps.
Hopefully others can add more suggestions.

[This message was edited by Mike Sae on MONDAY 13 May 2002 at 06:01.]

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Is this with the same system? By setup are you referring to supports, or more? What was the setup that resulted in "mind drilling hardness" (that sounds all too familiar!).

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Yes, I've had my current system sound like both ends of the crap spectrum. Things like shelf placement, shelf material, the rack itelf, cable dressing, and especially speaker placement make a difference. Little things like nut tightness and spike contact (or lack thereof) can also have have a profound effect.

Pulling my speakers forward 5 cm and toeing them in 10 degrees totally repressed and deadened the music. This probably says more about the room's interaction than the speakers themselves, but it just goes to show...

quote:

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Are you an ex-pat (la belle province) by any chance?

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No, but I did visit Montreal and Victoriaville. I loved every minute of it. As the plane took off from Dorval to take us back to Vancouver, I swore to myself that I'd return

I would speculate that the room, the table and the speakers are the cause of the shoutiness.

The CD player and the Preamp should be decoupled from the big cabinet, but that's probably not the cause.

I would also look at reflections from that big dining table - try moving it away - I imagine your stereo imaging is a bit weird from all the reflections coming from it.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Dev

That "shoutiness" has been the one annoyance that's plagued all my systems (as I climbed the upgrade ladder), and was even an issue with CDS2/52/2*135/Albion. I wasn't sure whether to blame it on the speakers, the amps, CDs in general, my bay window, or what.

About a year ago, I got a dedicated spur installed, and a large part of the hashy shoutiness went away. Yet there was still a bit of harshness that remained to annoy me. (Very good overall, but not "perfect" by any means.)

A couple of weeks ago I replaced the house-ground terminal on the water pipe. Eureka!!! Now my system is as smooth as smooth could be.

Naim amplifiers like really good power (including a good ground). Any less than that, and you're going to be unhappy.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

It's time for me to visit M.H., Jan.

Emmanuel

For others: M.H. doesn't mean Mike Hanson

Welcome aboard the true path to enlightenment Mikey Boy =>>
=>>.

Now I'm not one for dredging things up from the past and all that but I do have to admit to having raised just a slight smirk given that you rained a mighty big poo-poo on this very subject not so long ago (err actually it might've been a couple of years ago thinking about it)

Anyway
Nice to hear you're finally getting there.

Smile

P

BTW - what is it with Canadians and huge great sideboards between their speakers? How very odd.

Just logged in; Wow! Thanks to you all for your well considered replies.

Mike:
Thanks for your detailed list. I have tried all (except loosening the speaker spike nuts) but none have eliminated the problem. Placement of CDX directly on the armoire shelf led to a substantial deadening of the sound; in that configuration, the music just plods along.

About the LP12... uh, its' temporary removal to make way for the XPS became sort of permanent.. and I wasn't really listening to it (the CDX is just so much more fun) oh dear, I'm into minus FEP territory now...

Jason, Steve and Dev:
With 3 replies on room reflections, you must be on to something. We're in the middle of renovations, and the money that was to have gone to furnishings was neatly absorbed by a breathtakingly expensive power supply for the CDX... Nonetheless, I will definitely try your suggestions.

On the other hand, the shoutiness is noticeable even when sitting very close to the speakers while they play at low volume, where I am not the path of early reflections.

I have tried substituting the Genki in place of the CDX, and while this does tame things down, it doesn't feel like real musicians playing anymore, or at least not playing like their hearts are in it, anyway.

The speakers are a 2.5 way design with a sealed mid - treble cabinet and a bottom-ported bass cabinet.

http://members.tripod.ca/~janerik/lyra4.JPG

Bass is definitely not lumpy; more like deeply extended and tuneful. The speaker designer delivered and installed them and we played around with various sitings, with marginal improvement of the hardness, though. He also suggested trying along a different wall, which I will do when I obtain a sufficiently long set of cables.

The wall behind the main listening position is essentially a window wall, so another hard surface. Curtains for that one I suppose!

I duly note your strong recommendations for the separate spur and will get one in as soon as possible.

Mike:
Interesting observation on the grounding terminal. My house is in the country, so there are no water pipes or other ground current paths, other than the soil, and the neutral wire on the electrical service drop. I'll try replacing my grounding rod with a galvanised grounding plate. Coudl you provide technical / installation details on your separate spur?

Manu:
Thanks. I'll get in contact to arrange a visit.

To all:
Would you expect removal of shoutiness/hardness to reduce the tendency for music to be pushed at me? Or is this a characteristic of certain Naim equipment?

Best regards

[This message was edited by Jan-Erik Nordoen on TUESDAY 14 May 2002 at 02:23.]

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BTW - what is it with Canadians and huge great sideboards between their speakers? How very odd

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1/ Country home with no curtains on windows (hide speakers, close cabinet doors and presto! nothing interesting for prying eyes)
2/ Young children with sticky fingers
3/ CDX at comfortable loading height
4/ Liquor and music in one convenient location (peruse single malts and CDs at the same time!)
5/ Fraim doesn't match antique furniture

but most importantly:

6/ Didn't you notice the half-moon cutout in the hutch?

Cheers