HDX - why no audio in?

Probably because it would involve adding extra circuitry, such as an analogue/digital converter that would add to cost, and a lot of people would not use.

I would have used it.

quote:

I would have used it.

me too

Another dissapointing factor of the HDX is imho the rather small info text on the display.

I think I'd need a telescope to be able to read the display.
(in that regard the SB3 is quite a relief)

This is where the external DAC comes in which I think Naim will produce. I think it would make sense for them to have an A/D converter in the External DAC so that you can do 24/96 A/D recordings of vinyl to your NAS/PC and then playback through the external DAC. Whether or not this DAC is upgadeable who knows.

BTW, again my position is if Naim does an external DAC +/- ripping station and no internal HDD, where will it fit in the quality line-up of playback (NS01/SN/HDx) and I believe pricing will not be cheap. I expect at least $4-5K USD and probably more if you look at a Linn Akurate DS. I do not expect it to be the $1000 DAC people have been pining for. I think this would be a primo product for many Naim users especially if the ripping station included and removes the possibility of poor rips from badly set up PC stations. This then attracts the widest possible numberof buyers from those who want to go PC/NAS based who own both vinyl and/or CD's. It works for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Amer:
I like many others was waiting for a Naim quality hard disk recorder - so what a massive disappointment that it appears that all it can do is rip my CDs and cannot record my LPs. Anybody explain the lack of thought behind that decision on Naim's part?
Regards Amer

Actually Amer there was a lot of thought behind that decision - it's just that the decision was made that analogue archiving was not a function that could be viably included in the HDX - there is little spare space for either the required hardware internally nor the required socketry on the rear panel.

Cheers

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
This is where the external DAC comes in which I think Naim will produce. I think it would make sense for them to have an A/D converter in the External DAC so that you can do 24/96 A/D recordings of vinyl to your NAS/PC and then playback through the external DAC. Whether or not this DAC is upgadeable who knows.

...but a DAC has no need of an ADC in it - the poiunt of a DAC is to take a digital stream and convert it into analogue audio. Putting an ADC in there would have no purpose and a DAC wouldn't be anything that you would use to record an external source - I think you are attributing far more functionality to the unit than would be reasonably expected of a DAC.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
BTW, again my position is if Naim does an external DAC +/- ripping station and no internal HDD, where will it fit in the quality line-up of playback (NS01/SN/HDx) and I believe pricing will not be cheap. I expect at least $4-5K USD and probably more if you look at a Linn Akurate DS. I do not expect it to be the $1000 DAC people have been pining for. I think this would be a primo product for many Naim users especially if the ripping station included and removes the possibility of poor rips from badly set up PC stations. This then attracts the widest possible numberof buyers from those who want to go PC/NAS based who own both vinyl and/or CD's. It works for everyone.

...but again I think you have your functional boundaries a bit confused and blurred.

A DAC which is capable of ripping analogue (so it has ADCs, local intermediate storage for buffering and processing) and digital audio sources (so it has a transport) to a NAS (so it has an ethernet presence) isn't a DAC ... what you have described is a very different hybrid beast of a product which isn't really anything specific.

The decisions on what to build and what functionality to build in are not taken lightly or on a whim.

Cheers

Phil

Very good points Phil. Thanks for chiming in.

I fully agree. Anyone who is doing serious AD converting will have a dedicated unit to do so. Independent of the eventual DACing.

Most people don invest heavily on the AD end of things when doing vinyl transfers. Most use simple software and soundcards. Some use M-Audio type products which get closer to, but still not to the level of pro ADCs such as Benchmark.

I would expect Naim's hypothetical DAC to not include such a ADC section. Nor would most want it to.

my wish? a simple USB DAC with 24/192 capability and proper earthing for a Naim kit. Upgradable with a NAPSC and/or other PSU could be cool as well.

-Patrick

Sign me up.... I'll be the first one in line.

Munch,
Any knowledge of inputs?

Thanks,
Patrick

Question is will the DAC include the "ripping station" without storage or CD playback or just instructions for using the Naim software to produce your computer based rips like EAC?

Upgradeability with PS would be welcomed.

So we'll just need a MAC-n-DAC. I guess the DAC will have a nice big buffer and re-clock everything so that the data source is irrelevant (in as much as it can be). As long as it produces music with the quality of a CD555 for the price of a CD5 then I'll be happy.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
Question is will the DAC include the "ripping station" without storage or CD playback or just instructions for using the Naim software to produce your computer based rips like EAC?

Neither ... a DAC is a digital to analogue converter - you feed it an SP/DIF type digital audio data stream and it converts that into glorious two-channel stereo audio.

A DAC is *NOT* a ripping station or anything like that - where do you get the idea from that it is?

Phil

Phil - do you think there will be a 'lower' HDX without a lot of the functionality of the HDX. No internal drives / ripping. Almost an 'intelligent' Ethernet DAC if you like ?

James

Phil, I do know what a DAC is, but it is obvious that Naim is capable of adding more features to a DAC and producing a device, whatever you want to call it, that has more features than just the DAC. Whether you choose to produce something that is simply "a DAC" or has other features is a decision for the company to make if they produce anything at all.

quote:

Originally posted by james n:
Phil - do you think there will be a 'lower' HDX without a lot of the functionality of the HDX. No internal drives / ripping. Almost an 'intelligent' Ethernet DAC if you like ?

James

I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to comment on what products may or may not be currently in our development processes...

Phil

I'm not sure what features you would want to add to a DAC. A DAC is a DAC, end of... isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
Phil, I do know what a DAC is, but it is obvious that Naim is capable of adding more features to a DAC and producing a device, whatever you want to call it, that has more features than just the DAC. Whether you choose to produce something that is simply "a DAC" or has other features is a decision for the company to make if they produce anything at all.

Absolutely - if a device has additional functionality added to it though then that functionality would usually be related to and therefore build upon the core functionality of the device ... to go for a non-hifi example that would be like adding a coffee grinder and milk frother to a coffee machine.

The additional functionality you are querying for this notional product that you are calling a DAC (which is in itself a well known type of device that has a pretty well defined core functionality) is quite disparate to what would be the accepted functionality of a "DAC" and hence would be unlikely to be added to a product which is primarily intended to be a DAC.

I guess taking my previous example it would be like someone adding a salad spinner to a coffee maker...

Cheers

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by thesherrif:
I'm not sure what features you would want to add to a DAC. A DAC is a DAC, end of... isn't it?

There is functionality that you could add even to a simple DAC ... support for decoding 24bit/192kHz audio perhaps ... multiple digital inputs possibly ... USB inputs for connection to a PC maybe, but these all complement the core functionality of the product.

Cheers

Phil

hmmm.... I suppose one man's functionality is another man's features !

quote:

Originally posted by thesherrif:
hmmm.... I suppose one man's functionality is another man's features !

Absolutely...

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
Phil, I do know what a DAC is, but it is obvious that Naim is capable of adding more features to a DAC and producing a device, whatever you want to call it, that has more features than just the DAC.

Yes They are capable. It is called the HDX.

Cheers to Naim if and when they do release an external DAC.

No extra "features" needed. 24/192, USB, driverless software, would be just fine...

I will, for the foreseeable future, use EAC and rip to FLAC. Play with Foobar and wait for my new DAC!!!

When I think of all of the Power supply issues and problems surrounding external DACs, it seems Naim would be a prime candidate to develop PSU upgrade options.

I can imagine that it could work with a NAPSC alone, or a NAPSC and FC, NAPSC and HC.

You can check the car battery at the door.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
Are you being obtuse or splitting hairs here with regard to the definition of a DAC or merely to safeguard HDX sales?

What??? He already said he cannot/will not discuss products in development.

I, and Naim I imagine, assume those who dont need an HDX, already have a ripping/burning/storage solution and only need a nice external DAC.

Most of us clamoring for a DAC DO NOT want anything more.. We already have drives, computers, methods, players and interfaces we like. Now we only need a way to convert the digital in the Naim way.

Allen, what added extras are you looking for? Basically you want an HDX without the "spinning" disc drive? Then how would you rip? No drive=no rip.

If you plan on ripping with your PC, then storing on a NAS, you certainly dont need an HDX of any imaginary design.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Sorted,
Naim DACs are coming[ Fact ]

Is that DAC555 or DAC5i? That is the question facing prospective HDX buyers like myself.

My hope is for a Superline priced Naim DAC with PSU upgrade options.

PC, I agree and that is my dilemma do I go with an HDX/NS01 or wait to see if Naim develops a stand-alone DAC. The only issue or non-issue with this is do Naim provide the software for ripping from your PC/Mac to ensure an error free rip as you have with EAC. Someone still has to show you the correct method of setting up the process to have the best possible playback after ripping.

One thing we need to be clear about. Lossless = without loss. Whether that is FLAC, WAV or Apple Lossless makes no difference in terms of reolution.

What happens to it musically is all down to the DAC analogue stages downstream.

I worry about the suggestion of a rip being better than another rip. It has that awful ring of Hi Fi industry smoke & mirrors. If it's lossless, it's lossless. You cannot add more than is there is to rip - all you can do is lose stuff. If that happens, it's not lossless. Lawyers will be interested in claims of lossless music where it is not the case, I assure you.

Steve