New Naim NDX

....very interesting....guess N stands for Network....maybe the high-end streamer we're waiting for... :-)

Sounds promising... finally.... the box of the NDAC is half empty, so more than enough room to integrate an ethernet/WLAN module. Shoudlnt cost more than €50.

For a reference series box, they could use the bigger box and also get rid of the vibrating transformer and fully rely on 555PS/XPS2.

However, I´m afraid that Naim still ignores the demand of it´s normal customers and will attack the Klimate DS first, i.e. NDX requiring €10.000+.

brgds..TC

quote:

Originally posted by yeti.fro:
Sounds promising... finally.... the box of the NDAC is half empty, so more than enough room to integrate an Ethernet/WLAN module. Shouldn't cost more than €50.

Isn't a Nait XS box half empty too - but you still get better performance with NAC152XS and NAP155XS... I don't know what Naim are going to be bringing out, but I don't think adding UPnP AV streaming capabilities to the DAC is likely to be it.

quote:

However, I´m afraid that Naim still ignores the demand of it´s normal customers and will attack the Klimate DS first, i.e. NDX requiring €10.000+.

What do you think Naim have been doing recently ... the Uniti series are all about "normal" customers. Okay they haven't made everyone happy, but the UnitiQute does all that everyone asks - the trouble for some people is is does too much. A UnitiQute without pre-power amp would suit most requirements for a streamer ... but then everyone who wanted to use it with the DAC would complain that it had the analogue output!

Eloise

Oh goody more boxes that you can all moan about not having the right connections, not working with wibblywobbly encoding. Or conversely having too many connections etc etc.

This is not what I would call "half empty" - far from it in fact!

Calm down, everybody has his own opinion and requirements.

Fact is that the Linn DS' sell like hell and I know many Naimies who migrated to a DS, because there's no green option. I also know two dealers who took the HDX out, because it's almost unsellable. Although Naim shows with the Unis that they do have the knowledge to do so, they just dont want to keep those customers. So, yes, the Unity is a nice device and the Uniqute looks even better and could do the job to feed the nDac, but still there's a real streamer missing, which provides a CDX2+ like sound in a single box without wasting energy with integrated power amps.

The free space left/below from the Burndy connecetor is enough to fit a UPNP module. If more space is needed, you could also get rid of the useless Apple support...

I cant understand all this moaning about UPNP problems. I use a DS for more than 2 years and installed a couple for friends and never had any issues. Comfort and usage is almost perfect, if only the sound would be greener...

brgds...TC

Very interesting news but as usual ambigous and confusing news about Naim new products, specially in the digital range, where we are seeing a lot of new products but the product hierarchy remains very confusing (for instance the Serve and new HDX performance as transports).

N from network
D from DAC

And in the reference line, maybe this is an upgraded Naim DAC with network capabilities as a bonus...

quote:

Originally posted by yeti.fro:
Calm down, everybody has his own opinion and requirements.

Then why project. HDX is that CDX2 substitute and actually does quite well for Naim. People get so picky about what is or isn't included. If it does what you need for a price you think reasonable and sounds better than the next one, buy it. If not, don't.

My guess and it is only a guess, is that this will be a Ndac/streamer or Ndac/streamer/pre.

i would love to see a roadmap.....

Allen, How did the ground switch thing end up for you? Did you get to hear a ssd/new pci version?

Greetings all,

It's a shame that what I think is my first post on the forum contains a negative tone given the enjoyment my Naim kit has given me thus far but I have to say I agree with AllenB about the publishing of a roadmap. What Naim gains by not revealing future product details to the competition (assuming this is a/the reason for the roadmap being published so far) it loses from customers purchasing the best kit available for their needs only to find a better solution (sound quality/cost-wise) is available shortly after their purchase - I agree it's a problem common to any fast-developing market but the lack of information from Naim isn't helping.

I'm currently enjoying my CD5i-2 and Nait5i but have been looking to make the move to digital via Naim for about 6 months. The original HDX was a no-no as I didn't like the idea of 2 HDDs in the device, I'm now waiting for a date when my dealer can arrange a UnitiServe-SSD+DAC vs HDX-SSD+DAC listening test and I can make my decision based on what I hear. I'm loathe to cancel the test at my dealers but would be annoyed to spend 4.5/6.5K on hopefully the best available Naim digital source of UnitiServe-SSD+DAC/HDX-SSD+DAC only to find a NDX/reference DAC appears shortly after purchase requiring an upgrade. Oh for the announcement of comparative digital output details or the announcement of an HDX-SSD-Digital Only !

I realise this phenomenon will occur more often as Naim move into new, developing digital territory but I would think the publication of a roadmap would ease this transition for customers, not hinder it as they should be more informed ?

In digital, if you wait for the next best thing to come along, you'll never buy anything. This is normal marketing practice done by all. Look what happened with the DAC. Naim caved and spoke early, before they knew exactly how long it would take to bring to market. After a delay, a part supplier changed spec and everybody bitched about the wait. You can't win either way so I suspect that Naim will continue to do what has worked well for the past 40 years. The problem with road maps for this particular market is that there are so many different paths.

As above. And it by no means applies to Naim or the audio industry exclusively. Either wait for ever or get the best you can when you want to acquire something. The introduction of a new product, particularly something in the ripping/streaming/serving area will not render all that went before it obsolete or sonically poor. We should be careful what we wish for. Picture a world with dealers legally sworn to secrecy and no advanced announcements (in many cases AKA rumours). You buy your Uniti today and next Monday the Mk2 hits the supply chain. I don't think the situation we are now in is at all harmful to potential sales. The opposite I think. I'll likely get a good few years out of my HDX and if the NDX becomes a reality and is a no brainer, they'll get my money twice over less the PX. I'm already setting pennies aside for the Reference DAC - whatever that turns out to be (if not NDX) and if it turns out to be not what I thought it would or not suitable for me I'll be just as happy listening to my excellent existing gear and counting my money. If I was making the transition and ready to leap now it would be the HDX-SSD for my needs. I can buy one,I can hold it in my hands, I can listen to it and it will sound a lot better than an empty shelf on the rack.

quote:

It's a shame that what I think is my first post on the forum contains a negative tone given the enjoyment my Naim kit has given me thus far but I have to say I agree with AllenB about the publishing of a roadmap. What Naim gains by not revealing future product details to the competition (assuming this is a/the reason for the roadmap being published so far) it loses from customers purchasing the best kit available for their needs only to find a better solution (sound quality/cost-wise) is available shortly after their purchase - I agree it's a problem common to any fast-developing market but the lack of information from Naim isn't helping.

I disagree - as far as I see it, it's really about not committing to a product that might be obsolete or eclipsed at its launch. Better to spend time on the R&D side bringing products to market with a wider appeal (e.g., streaming integrateds for new customers) and build upward, than to focus on niche products at the outset.

If you must have a Linn DS "pure streamer" immediately, right now–buy it. If you must sell it later at a loss–is this really anyone's concern but yours?

Worldwide markets are different, and whatever may seem to be popular in the EU or the UK alone might actually be less-than-inspiring in other export markets where users may possess different skill sets or listening sensibilities, let alone lifestyles.

Having played with a beta version of the n-Stream app for UnitiSystem products et al , I am confident that the roadmap is exactly where it needs to be, and in the right order–any of you who have been with the brand for a significant amount of time remember the outcry when the CD3-5 came out, and the time lag between that and the introduction of the CDX, and the CDS2.

I remember the raves on this forum and others about the performance of the Linn CD12 at the time–came in a flight case, machined aluminum housing, etc.–but, in the end, if you purchased an original XPS to power your CDS2, on the other hand, you can still use that supply to power the HDX. Or the DAC. Or whatever comes next–this represents true value for money (especially as Naim still services and supports the CDS2).

quote:

Fact is that the Linn DS' sell like hell

did you mean "sound" rather than "sell"?

quote:

Originally posted by T38.45:
i would love to see a roadmap.....

There you go.

quote:

The introduction of a new product, particularly something in the ripping/streaming/serving area will not render all that went before it obsolete or sonically poor.

Absolutely right - my CDX2 still plays CDs and sounds pretty good - it didn't go "oh no" he's bought a DAC, I'll give up and go home.

My modded CDX2 is no mean performer through the DAC either. I don't have much use for it any more but it's OMG that's good, not OMG it's gone all rubbish

quote:

Originally posted by js:
HDX is that CDX2 substitute and actually does quite well for Naim. People get so picky about what is or isn't included. If it does what you need for a price you think reasonable and sounds better than the next one, buy it. If not, don't.

My guess and it is only a guess, is that this will be a Ndac/streamer or Ndac/streamer/pre.

To quote an ex-president, it depends what your definition of "well" is. Out in the wild there is an increasingly large community of DS users talking about things related to the streamers. For Naim, the only place that I see any discussion at all is in this forum.

It really does not help when Naim's strategy for streamers are so confusing. AS far as I know all the DS machines use the same server and client platform so people can freely develop develop apps and talk about the DS machines interchangeably. For Naim, I don't even know if the Qutes and the Unitis and the HDX and the NS01s use the same software. Let alone having a whole community of people passionate about the platform and providing all sorts of tips and tricks.

When it comes to streamer, Naim really should have listened to those customers who have been using streamers long before Naim was even thinking about it. Squeezebox users are a goos start, they have created a "sticky" community that continues to "stick" to their platform despite Logitech slowed development to a snail's pace after the acquisition. DS community also increasingly so.

The fact that Naim keeps changing platform makes the HDX seems like a one off thing, not even a one hit wonder.

I may sound rough but come on I really cannot believe that the HDX is a smash hit. How many have you sold this month? I want Naim to succeed with CAS, if they would only listen, or at least show us where they are heading.

We Naimees me included are just so stupidly loyal. The Naim DAC was a product that was so close to perfection except the one huge omission of an async USB or Firewire connectivity for computer audio. That was just plain silliness and complete out of touch with the market. And yet we still buy them in droves including yours truly because it is a lovely machine with green glows.

quote:

The Naim DAC was a product that was so close to perfection except the one huge omission of an async USB or Firewire connectivity for computer audio.

That's two omissions and not including my favourite interface the BlueTooth APT-X is a third - still it sounds so good I'm not gonna moan.

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
And yet we still buy them in droves including yours truly because it is a lovely machine with green glows.

I bought it because it is the best source I have ever heard on my kit, it was in my price range, and exactly what I have been waiting for since I bought the Beresford and my Naim kit 2 years ago.

Do you think people are really dropping $3500 on the DAC just because it has a Naim logo? Or is it even more appreciated for the same fact.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
the 500 series of products were discussed a long time before they were realised. Why cannot this same approach be applied to the digital product range?

and

quote:

virtually every 'new' product has reached the shelves late, or suffer long back-logs to delivery.

It seems like you are answering your own question.

The other night I went out for a very nice dinner at a favorite restaurant and had a rib-eye for $29. The next day they had it as their "special" for $20. I should be PISSED that the server didn't tell me to wait and come back the next day.

quote:

To quote an ex-president, it depends what your definition of "well" is. Out in the wild there is an increasingly large community of DS users talking about things related to the streamers. For Naim, the only place that I see any discussion at all is in this forum.

It really does not help when Naim's strategy for streamers are so confusing. AS far as I know all the DS machines use the same server and client platform so people can freely develop develop apps and talk about the DS machines interchangeably.

There is no Linn server platform, period–only a series of client players. The control proposition is notoriously weak (says the retailers) and the support role has been abdicated by the retailers to an online community.

quote:

For Naim, I don't even know if the Qutes and the Unitis and the HDX and the NS01s use the same software. Let alone having a whole community of people passionate about the platform and providing all sorts of tips and tricks.

There are servers and there are streamers, each with their own operating software (n-Serve for HDX, NS0x and UnitiServe, n-Stream for NaimUniti, UnitiQute, and ...).

Naim music servers are also players unto themselves–a situation where flexibility belies, to the naked eye, confusion upon a roadmap to providing complete end-to-end solutions. You cannot maximize the performance of a high-end streamer without decent-quality (source) audio files, therefore it was necessary first to have server products within the market.

The Naim servers are players ("self-streamers") which, due to the close coupling between server, control and player (renderer), provides better, more responsive interaction than playback via UPnP.

That said, the Naim-written UPnP server software layer on the servers eliminates the need to roll your own UPnP/DLNA server software (builds) on a commodity PC or NAS.

quote:

When it comes to streamer, Naim really should have listened to those customers who have been using streamers long before Naim was even thinking about it. Squeezebox users are a goos start, they have created a "sticky" community that continues to "stick" to their platform despite Logitech slowed development to a snail's pace after the acquisition. DS community also increasingly so

Squeezebox control is significantly better than Linn's, but also proprietary. Acquisition by disc-ripping is still left to chance, with limited metadata.

quote:

The fact that Naim keeps changing platform makes the HDX seems like a one off thing, not even a one hit wonder.

I may sound rough but come on I really cannot believe that the HDX is a smash hit.

In the U.S. market, HDX sales in Q1 2010 wildly exceeded sales numbers for Compact Disc players. Derive from that what you will–as I equally also understand that there are parts of the world in which music servers (from any manufacturer) have much lower market penetration.

quote:

We Naimees me included are just so stupidly loyal. The Naim DAC was a product that was so close to perfection except the one huge omission of an async USB or Firewire connectivity for computer audio. That was just plain silliness and complete out of touch with the market.

...except that, if it didn't meet standards of "perfection", the wait for high-performance USB or FireWire connectivity would have delayed the product further (see AllenB's post above about slipping ship dates). In addition, there are plenty of class-leading DACs in the market who also omit USB connectivity, due to many of the same misgivings about its suitability as a stream transport for high-bit rate PCM audio.

I have heard that the NDX will contain neither a ripping drive nor an analog output.

If this is correct, then its role will presumably be clearly defined but limited to connecting to a server via Ethernet, in order to stream audio to a separate DAC, and it cannot, realistically, be priced at anything like as high as the HDX or even the Unitiserve.

This is not what I would like to see: a version of the HDX-SD without the analog output which would make the most sense for use with an outboard DAC.

hi Billy,

...ref line size, no ripping, no analog out, display would be nice (like hdx)...do you know if it supports upnp?
tx

Ralf