Naim Haters, whats their problem?

Adam:

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I think that men have a tendency to see a disagreement over taste or opinion as a direct attack on their worth and respond (in)appropriately.

The technical term for this is 'war'.

B. Price:

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They hear it in non-ideal situations and it can sound really bad if it is not set up properly.

You're so right. My dealer is always astonished at how many people do little better than sling their massive investment into a room.

He offers to do it, but they decline.

I can't understand it either. I watched my dealer do it for me and the results were terrifying! One or two inches the wrong way made all the difference - especially with the speakers...

A letter in today's Times on the anti-SUV campaign being waged at the moment probably helps:-

I believe this is more of a problem in UK as you find quite more Naims dealers and Naim owners in this country.
Probably the problem comes from Naims owners and perhaps Naim dealers as well, after all it's quite amazing nowaday that few dealers have chosen to have only Naim products in their shop and therefore to sell one hifi brand only.
Anyway it isn't really a problem, on the contrary I could see that as a strong point as I believe that no other brand has succeded to have so many people having such an absolute devotion to their brand.
I do think anyway that most Naim owners know that there are other brands out there who make good hifi, but they are just happy with Naim and don't feel like demoing other hifi...
Many times I felt that Naim has a very special place in the hifi world and often feel this when reading a review of Naim products or talk with reviewers. It could very well be that Naim is the most respected brand in the hifi world.

I second Kuma's saying:

quote:

Naim is lucky in that no other brand probably evokes such a strong reaction from endusers.

Best regards to all,
Edouard

So there's a thread bickering about Naim on another forum. Big deal. Who cares? If you're that bothered, join in there, why feel the need to start a thread here bickering about people bickering elsewhere? It's only a bloody hi-fi.

Steve.

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So there's a thread bickering about Naim on another forum. Big deal. Who cares?

I don't!

Hi All

Thanks for all the input on what i think is an interesting subject (which seems not so with some contributers and their well thought out 'who cares' remarks). Guess what I do!

To those who have put some input into the debate, I feel that you have really just illuminated some of what i personally thought when i read the other thread. And given me some other aspects of this to muse over.

This Hobby interests me in many ways more than just the music side (which of course is the main one). Because i feel by understanding the Psychology, Science, Social, Logical and Philosophical
aspects of what companies do with their products, in-able you to single out interesting companies and products no matter how Bonkers they seem.

Thats what brought me to demo Naim Kit, which i heard against other British products, (Roksan,MF,Rega,Arcam,Cyrus).The two that connected me with the music were the Rega and Naim, the Naim just being better at hearing what was going on in the mix. Clearer Vocals and the like. The others were just plain unemotional, boring you might say, but this is only to my ears i must add. Naim does seem to have a good mix of what i mentioned mainly being Logical and Bonkers at the same time. Very British I must say and individual. And that is probably the source of the emotion, being individual in society always seems to bring these sort of reactions i suppose.

I had to get this of my chest so if i lost or bored anyone my apologies.

Whizzzzz

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Originally posted by Whizzkid:
Hi All

.... Thats what brought me to demo Naim Kit, which i heard against other British products .... The two that connected me with the music were Rega and Naim.....

Whizzzzz

Well if had to choose two companies to source all my hifi from then it would be Rega and Naim too - though I like some products from other companies aswell (Linn, Stax and so on)

Hi ROTF

The same here i have Avi speakers and a old LP12 with Van den hul and Dynavector in my system. All interesting companies who do it their way. Not just following trends for market share.

Whizzzzz

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Thanks for all the input on what i think is an interesting subject

Ultimately it will be uninformed speculation and, whilst we will all have our theories, this might be a suitable discussion to continue in the Padded Cell or another forum.

DavOhorn,

Naim never said wires were a non-issue. They always said you should use their wires for best results. The manuals and website even say that you will get different results with other wires, but that in Naim's view the best results are attained using Naim cables.

And Naim cables are bound to evolve...

A lot of the naysayers on other fora are people who had Naim gear and moved away from it. Others are those who simply don't 'get' it and are far happier with other presentations. The Naim presentation is fairly unique and the older kit certainly was more coloured than the modern ranges. People looking for 'truth', 'accuracy' etc. would view Naim's presentation as anathema. The fact that the Naim stuff is engaging is very often 'colour' to them.

I love what Naim gear does even though I don't use it at home. I do wonder sometimes what I would buy were I to leave the industry since my weekly Naim jab in the shop is something to which I look forward very much.

The listening room makes as much difference to the sound as the system, so should we "hate" everyone who lives in a post-war house?

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Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
this might be a suitable discussion to continue in the Padded Cell or another forum.

Aw, stop being such a wet blanket all the time!

Besides, everyone here KNOWS Naim is the finest hi-fi manufacturer in the world, so there's no need for alarm...!

EW

Adam

This is one of those rare occassions when EW is right.

You have absolutely no need to worry over the ramblings of a few inadequate plebs.

If they actually start hating a company because it produces good quality music, then they are brain dead morons unworthy of comment or concern. Who really takes any notice of them, who frankly cares what they think ?

Ignore them because they are of no consequence.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Ultimately it will be uninformed speculation and, whilst we will all have our theories, this might be a suitable discussion to continue in the Padded Cell or another forum.

Would it be fair to say that when asking for opinions that it is reasonable to expect 'uninformed speculation' as a given?

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Abela:
The Naim presentation is fairly unique and the older kit certainly was more coloured than the modern ranges. People looking for 'truth', 'accuracy' etc. would view Naim's presentation as anathema. The fact that the Naim stuff is engaging is very often 'colour' to them.

I agree Frank. I have never really understood the concept of 'colour' from a hi-fi system. I don't know what the point of reference might be for people who hear it. I do not carry around an accurate representation of what an instrument might sound like in my head, and unless conducting an A/B demo with live music would find it hard to spot 'colouration'.

What I do know is that listening to my records through Naim equipment for the first time (which was only a few months ago) I felt really 'connected' to the music. I cannot really explain it any better than that.

I became really hooked on the Naim presentation as many people do.

Add to that the fantastic support service offered by Naim for even 'vintage' equipment and it's a no brainer to buy their products. Naim encourage brand loyalty by this approach and someone like me who has only bought second hand may well be persuaded to buy new in the future as I feel in safe hands. Other than that I will certainly spend money with them at least getting my equipment serviced.

This excellence at what they do combined with a fierce customer brand loyalty can bring out the aggressive side in people who feel the need to attack that which is succesful or that which represents a choice 'other' than that which they have made and may just be better.

We should probably leave those people to their vitriol and just relax and enjoy the music.

Mark

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Originally posted by Earwicker:
Aw, stop being such a wet blanket all the time!
EW

I am not a great fan of cross-referencing between forums. I could put this more strongly.

Even our lovely Nuno has started long, rambling, confused, directionless (surprise surprise!) threads elsewhere dismissing naim amplifiers.

OK you find something you like better, but in what sort of mind does that make what you previously thought good now bad? It has surely stayed the same?!?!?

Nobody loves us Boo hoo!!

Jonathan

Jonathan

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Even our lovely Nuno has started long, rambling, confused, directionless (surprise surprise!) threads elsewhere dismissing naim amplifiers

Ah Nuno, the man who took two years to decide what iPod to buy and then couldn't make it work....indeed.

Jim

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Originally posted by Edouard:
....I do think anyway that most Naim owners know that there are other brands out there who make good hifi ...
Best regards to all,
Edouard

Is there any scientific evidence to support the existence of these other brands?

The Japanese Audiophile community killed 800 or so Naim amplifiers last year for scientific purposes...

Dear Joe,

The wicked bit in me thinks that if what you say is true [Low bandwidth smiey], then this must be a good thing, but for different reasons than you might think!

The amps no longer are available second hand thus helping keep the market in thses items higher, and pressumably helping new sales!

A strong company is good for us all in the long term. Long may the destructuion go on! May I suggest a lifting of the ban on the non-scientic destruction be implemented as soon as the UN can make mortorium on it! [Another low bandwidth smiley].

Fredrik

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Originally posted by joe90:
The Japanese Audiophile community killed 800 or so Naim amplifiers last year for scientific purposes...

I wasn't one of them. ( just wanted to let you know that ) <----hi-bandwidth smiley

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The amps no longer are available second hand thus helping keep the market in thses items higher, and pressumably helping new sales!

They obviously wanted silicon chips with their microfiche...

barf