DACs I have bought and sold...
Posted by: Mr Pierce on 09 May 2008
No questions just yet & not asking advice, just my $.02 to help future forum-searchers on the DAC-quest...
So, not long after taking possession of my new hifi set which consists of a Rega Apollo CDP, 72, 140, and Dahlquist DQ-20 speakers - and after bumblingly dealing with speaker placement issues - I decided I wanted to Never Alphabetize My CD Collection Ever Again. So, I bought a Mac Mini and a Stello DA100 (not the new "signature" model) DAC. Even after many emails to the US Stello rep and a two-week warmup/break-in period, it just didn't sound as good as my CDP. Brittle treble, and no bump & bounce in the dynamics. Totally lacked the thing that made me spend US $3K on a stereo in the first place when I'd planned to spend a third of that sum.
So I bought a used Benchmark DAC1 USB, kept the Stello long enough to do an A/B test, and sold the Stello to a headphone listener with an anime avatar on the forums whom I'm sure is now delighted with it. The Benchmark sounds noticeably better, but still doesn't make me stop what I'm doing and sit on the couch because the music compels me to. Again with the no dynamic liveliness. And again, my standard is the Apollo - I'm not trying to beat a CD555 at it's own game or nothin' - just want a DAC to sound as good as a CDP that costs less that itself. Repeat buy/compare/sell, this time with a PS Audio Digital Link III. This one is the best of the bunch so far, but still is left in the dust by the Rega - which was easily bested by the CD5i at the dealer's, but I only had so much to spend...
So I sell the PS Audio and am now DACless. In Seattle. Next stop I assume is to have Mr. & Mrs. Lavry send a DA10 across the Puget Sound so I can take advantage of their 30-day trial period. I am cautiously optimistic.
If the DA10 fails to deliver the goods the way I like 'em, my options narrow to rob a bank and get an HDX, wait for Rega to make a DAC since Naim says they won't make one, rob a smaller bank and get a SuperNait and use its DAC, get to alphabetizing, or consider more left-field stuff like a battery-powered Altmann, the Lessloss from Lithuania, or the Stealth Kukama...
YMMV, FWIW, OMG, etc - just wanted to post my findings so far.
Posted on: 15 May 2008 by Steve S1
quote:
Trying to find something *good* ( this is subjective, mind you ) at around 2-3k is tough and it all seems some sort of trade offs rather than definitively better for me. And the part of the reason I've settled on the Shigaraki is that I realised that the next performance leap will be costly when I tried the valve DAC costing around 6k.
Hmm. Another way of looking at this might be to say the £2-4k DACs don't offer much more than the best sub £1k DACs.
I am conscious of a levelling of the playing field here that simply wasn't the case with analogue, or to a lesser extent, CD. The difference between the well designed TTs and the mediocre was huge. With CD players it was significant. With DACs and digital audio - those differences are reducing as we speak.
It's going to need a lot to convince people to spend many £000's for smaller improvements going forward. To that end, these changes are happening sooner than we expected. My streamed audio is now up where I want it. I wouldn't have thought it possible even a few months ago.
Steve
Posted on: 15 May 2008 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by Steve S1:
Hmm. Another way of looking at this might be to say the £2-4k DACs don't offer much more than the best sub £1k DACs.
Sort of.
quote:
I am conscious of a levelling of the playing field here that simply wasn't the case with analogue, or to a lesser extent, CD. The difference between the well designed TTs and the mediocre was huge.
It's all mechanical engineering no?
I would avoid 'well-designed' bits as I have been told many times an LP12 is not. Yet I enjoy this table most than many others.
quote:
It's going to need a lot to convince people to spend many £000's for smaller improvements going forward.
Yep.
quote:
To that end, these changes are happening sooner than we expected.
I am not quite convinced yet.
Posted on: 17 May 2008 by jcs_smith
quote:
Originally posted by Jack Barron:
He has emailed me to say that a Linn Sneaky DS, the bottom of their digital-file player range, will produce higher quality output of music than my Naim CD5.
I can believe this is possible. When I play digital files at the moment the music is nearly as good as using the CD5.
Jack
Depends how you define quality. I heard one and I thought it was good but I preferred the sound of my CD5.
Posted on: 23 May 2008 by u5227470736789424
Hello Mr Pierce and everybody else in search for a good stand alone dac.
I have no real first hand experience in listening to external DAC:s, but never the less I am thinking about setting up a music server together with my naim amps. Thing is I might have found a DAC that could deliver a "naim-like" sound! It is from a danish company called "ontech"
Also have a look at this thread from a swedish forum, there are some images from inside the box. to me, an amateur, ontech philosophy seems quite close to naims, lare power supply toroidal transformers, several and smoothing capacitors etc.
Has anyone here on the forum heard about the ontech dacs, or even better had a chance to listen to one through naim amps?
Posted on: 24 May 2008 by ryan_d
I have just started using a Perpetual Technologies P3 dac, connected to a Squeezebox duet, streaming wirelessly from my mac.
I've had it hooked up now for last 2 days and I have to say that although there is a little harshness at the top end (which I expect to rectify once its run in properly)the sound is superb. Arguably better than my cdx2 which I was most surprised about.
The dac gives a very naim like presentation with a speedy delivery and amazing dynamics. Its a little edge of seat at moment but I'll keep you posted of further developments.
Ryan
Posted on: 24 May 2008 by Keith L
quote:
Arguably better than my cdx2 which I was most surprised about.
Ryan,
There's absolutely no reason why this is not attainable. The "arguably" part of your statement arises from the fact that many Naimees cannot accept or comprehend this level of performance from Apple, SlimDevices and Perpertual Technologies. Because of this they simply dismiss streaming unless it is Naim HDX or Naimnet.
Keith
Posted on: 25 May 2008 by ryan_d
Keith, I agree with you but the reason I put arguably was becasue i had not spent a significant amount of time with it and it has a lot of running in to do.....according to the dealer approx 200 hours.
Resolution wise it is a major improvement over my cdx2 which was surprising, only by how much more was available. Time will tell whether I prefer the presentation over the cdx2 (which I adore)but its looking good so far. And I still prefer the black stuff to digital anyway so this is a great cost effective way of playing my digital collection.
If people are sceptical then you really should try to seek out a demo or someone close who can allow you a listen, as it really is very effective.
Ryan
Posted on: 16 July 2008 by Mr Pierce
Went to Charlie's last night with my Rega Apollo and a paper bag filled with CDs. To cut to the punch line, yes, the Lavry DA10 is the DAC to get. Other manufacturers, I hear, will be offering high-end DACs for sale any minute now, but that's later and now is now and this little black box beat my CDP so handily, and so obviously, that I see no reason to continue shopping. Granted, Charlie's Squeezebox modifications, as well as his fancypants coax cord connecting the SB to the DAC, surely help matters, but at least now I know that it is possible to build a server, within a reasonable budget, that sounds as good as my present CDP. When I buy a Lavry of my own I will report my findings as to whether my setup sounds okay with an unmodified Mac via TosLink, but for now I am quite certain that the Lavry beats the Apollo, which, to my ear, trounced the PS Audio, Benchmark, and Stello DACs.
Nice guy too. Amazing stereo. 282/200 combo with an olive HiCap. Self-designed and homemade speakers. And, as of yesterday, he has finally heard Radiohead. He liked it!
Posted on: 16 July 2008 by pcstockton
Imperialline,
That is what I thought I had read/heard. It seems that many of the DAC makers are "mom 'n' pop" operations. Which I really like to support.
I will call them to set something up... If they are even half as accommodating and helpful as MR Beresford, I will be very pleased.
Why USB????
Well for one, I would really like to avoid my PC's soundcard at all costs. First of all it is only 24/44 capable. Secondly, I have no idea what it is doing in terms of re-sampling my 24/96s.
Also, I would rather not buy another USB-to-Digi converter. The M-Audio converter I have is not up to snuff. There is considerable drop out and pops, ticks etc.... At least the way I have it set up.
So a driverless USB DAC allows me to employ Occam's razor as well as ensure I am getting the bits out of my computer in a better way than I am now.
I dont think anyone really considers the extraction of data aspects of a PC/DAC combo.
Posted on: 16 July 2008 by imperialline
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
I dont think anyone really considers the extraction of data aspects of a PC/DAC combo.
Get a Mac, man.
Actually, coming from a Mac user's perspective, I find it difficult to see why people would like to use USB for high performance digital interface.
Posted on: 16 July 2008 by Exiled Highlander
PC
quote:
Nor does my Mac laptop have an digital ou
Must be an old MacBook I would guess.
Cheers
Jim
Posted on: 16 July 2008 by CharlieP
This is going to be fun...
Charlie
PS:
I just downloaded my first 24/88 files from the Linn site. I do not believe in paying $29 for an "album" even if they claim to be "Studio Masters." But I was curious to hear what hi-rez is all about, so purchased some Mozart symphonies. It really does sound very nice.
Posted on: 01 August 2008 by CharlieP
pcstockton,
I have not had on-line time lately, and won't for a couple weeks. Call me when you are in town. You are still welcome for a music session.
Charlie
Posted on: 02 August 2008 by Dengyung
I am new to hifi. Bought my first set of amp only a few months ago and have spent quite a bit of money on gears. Thanks to all for the good advice and info on how to get quality music out of digital sources.
Just paid 520 pounds eq. in Hong Kong for a Larvy DA10 to link up with my Supernait... am now a very happy man. It is way better than Supernait's built-in DAC! Have unplugged my CD player (Cairn Tornado), simply can't tell the difference at all. Quality of life have improved, can have lots of wine and good music for hours without having to get up and change CDs!!
Apple TV - DA10 - Supernait - Sonus Faber Cremona
Posted on: 22 September 2008 by JY
Dear Deng,
I am also from Hong Kong as an ex Benchmark user.
May I ask where you bought your Lavry? I am interested in trying it out. You can private email at jyow-at-yahoo-dot-com.
John
quote:
Originally posted by Dengyung:
I am new to hifi. Bought my first set of amp only a few months ago and have spent quite a bit of money on gears. Thanks to all for the good advice and info on how to get quality music out of digital sources.
Just paid 520 pounds eq. in Hong Kong for a Larvy DA10 to link up with my Supernait... am now a very happy man. It is way better than Supernait's built-in DAC! Have unplugged my CD player (Cairn Tornado), simply can't tell the difference at all. Quality of life have improved, can have lots of wine and good music for hours without having to get up and change CDs!!
Apple TV - DA10 - Supernait - Sonus Faber Cremona
