(UK) Why does Supermarket Wine always tastes awful?

One for rodwsmith I think, he works in the wine trade.

Watch out for the annual French marketing led scam that is Beuajolais Nouveau - yuk!!!

The French must be laughing almost as much about this one as they are about Henry's 'Hand of Gaul'!

I suggest you join the Wine Society. Have a look.

www.thewinesociety.com

Nigel

Any of Rod's most excellent postings on this subject should help to explain - this being one of his more recent: http://forums.naim-audio.com/e...032981627#9032981627

Another vote for The Wine Society, if you live near Stevenage or travel past it by car - drop in to their shop. You will get a slight discount for collecting wine if I remember correctly

If you still need to be referred to become a member contact Nigel (HH) or myself and I am sure either one of us would help you join.

Another vote for the Wine Society - and happy to be a sponsor

They offer a great range of own label wines which are great for everyday - and starting at just less than a fiver for their "French Full Red" (from which I have a slight hangover today!)

On an average 2-3 case order with a mix of everyday and some more expensive wines I reckon on a bottle average of about £7-£8

Hope that helps.....

"always" Debs? You're not a journalist by any chance are you?!

But seriously, there's some good wine in supermarkets at all prices from the own label £3.49ish Cotes Du Rhone to Penfolds Grange. I stay clear of the big brands and try grape varieties (or combinations of grape varieties) that I haven't tried before.

My experience is the opposite of yours. You like Hardy's merlot, so I would try a Montepulciano, La Piuma for possibly a bit less. A Google search will reveal it's source.

Best, Chris

I believe if you spend under £5 here then most of it is tax etc and the pound worth 30% less that said you can still find good buys.I like asda chilean chardonnay which is just under £4.
Like everything else a little research pays off,you need to know what your buying.
The newspapers regularly give recommedations for supermarket wines.

bag this at asda. malbec-syrah

Hello!

Bit busy at the moment (teaching about wine in fact), and I am out of touch with what is and isn't available in the UK, but I'd say that just as the best meat comes from a butcher, the best fresh fruit from a greengrocer, and the best fish from a fishmonger, the best wine will come from a wine merchant.

The supermarkets will always be able to offer the lowest prices, no doubt. As a legacy of their collossal buying power. But the best prices and the best value are simply not synonymous (not necessarily anyway) and minimum supply quantities, coupled with a made-to-a-budget nature means that supermarket wine will never, can never, be particularly great. But of course it can be argued that not all wine in supermarkets is 'supermarket wine'. Nor is it. Tesco even has a fine wine range, and certainly so does Waitrose.

Here, however their buying power is less strong, and the bargains rarer, if at all. These ranges exist to help sell the pap. So at all levels I genuinely believe you are best served by finding a wine merchant you trust and realising that all these two-for-one deals are just elaborately (or not so elaborately) worded discounting. 'Discount' can be a pejorative term, and it usually is with wine.

I know lots of wine producers, from one-man bands to big companies, and no-one I know actually wants to sell to the (UK) supermarkets. Several of them have to, because they cannot make their business model work otherwise (1 bottle of wine in 3 is sold in the UK by Tesco alone), but none actually wants to.

Not difficult to figure whether the best wines end up there.

There was not a huge amount good about the Thresher range (inc Wine Rack, Victoria Wine etc) but if you have a branch closing down near you, they are offering crazy prices on clearance stock right now.

If it's any comfort, supermarket wine in France and Germany is in a very similar boat though.

Cheers

Rod

I can confirm 100% Rod, the supermarkets are screwing all the suppliers, wine, veg, milk, farmers etc..
I have wine contacts & travel in South Africa. The UK supermarket wines from SA are either never heard of, or low life wineries using grapes from all over, grape farms and anything surplus from branded vineyards, PLUS some "additives".
Some of the well established vineyards refuse to supply supermarkets - ESPECIALLY UK supermarkets. Selling it at 20 ZAR a bottle is a short route to bankruptcy.

ALL - do yourselves a favour and go to a wine merchant, look for Thelema, Simonsig, Boschendahl, Fairview ... the list is extensive and look for and try anything you don't see in supermarkets.

Also a message to all our lager guzzling readers: If you like a real pint in a real pub, STOP BUYING supermarket headache inducing British made chemical lager. yes your Australian & EU "lager" is probably brewed in Reading or somewhere like that. Go to a wine merchant an get a real pilsner from Germany Poland or Czech (not Dutch or Danish) and you will be converted in one.

Supermarkets have screwed the UK brewing industry & sell your booze cheaper to you than they sell to their own licensed pubs & franchised tenants. That's why pubs are closing at double digit numbers per week. That's why villages no longer have pubs. That's why pubs are forced (by the breweries) to become restaurants & stink of Thai, curry, chips & dried out carvery meat, boiled to death cabbage, or whatever (I have nothing against Thai & I lurve real Indian, not the brit sh#t))

STOP BUYING supermarket booze or life as we know it will cease.

Thanks Rod, for explaining a few things, that was an interesting read, and thank you all for replying.

I’m exploring the Wine Society web-site and thinking it over, it looks okay to me but would this kind of membership lock me into buying more than i really need?

Just for information; I have worked out my current wine consumption is less than 20 bottles of red a year. (This is the whole of my annual alcohol consumption with the exception to the occasional bottle of stella-tortoise, and this also tastes yuk nowadays too).

So, my average wine expense is less than 20 bottles @ £6 each = Less than £120 a year.

So it would be a lot better for me to simply buy a couple of cases (24 x bottles) of red wine from a good wine merchant for say... up to a couple of hundred quid?

Perhaps that would cover the delivery cost too, but the thing is hoping to get 2 cases of wine that is agreeable, and not kitchen sink waste cleaner! ; )

Debs

Debs,
I joined Virgin Wines on a recommendation from a friend - he brought some round for a meal that I cooked and it tasted very good. I don't buy very much but have received vouchers fro Virgin wines form various places - Amazom amoungst them - so I have had good wines at the same price as supermarket ones. It might be worth a look?
SJ

There is no minimum order with the Wine Society, in fact no obligation at all. But membership may be a little OTT for someone who drinks only 20 bottles a year. Oddbins have a Rioja down from £7.99 to £4.99 at the moment, which will certainly be better than Jacobs Creek.

We were in Lille last weekend, and visited a beer shop with about 500 bottled beers - a far cry from a lot of the rubbish we get here...

Nigel

Debs,

I sympathise. It would be really good if someone "in the know" named two or three "good" reds at £5 to £10 a bottle and named a few "wine merchants" where these could be bought.

You could then try a bottle of each and stick with the one (or two) you liked best.

I tend to buy Berry Brothers & Rudd "House Red" at about £5.50 a bottle or their Own lable Burgundy at about £10 and I like them.

If I pop down to Waitrose I currently tend to buy their "Chianti classico" at £10 a bottle.

But equally, I know from experience, that what I like doesn't always suit others!!!!

I also know that if I buy a Nuit St George at £35 a bottle from BB&R it tastes a whole lot better than any of the above. But, not being a multi-mionaire, I tend towards more of the £5/£10 bottles and fewer of the £35 ones.

cheers

Don

This is of course awfully disturbing news for the people involved, but the stock sell-off will involve some bargains nevertheless.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8370675.stm

I wish I were able to tell you which specific wines were worth a punt, but I haven't lived in the UK for three years. Once upon a time I sold them a Rhône wine from Michel Chapoutier called "Les Moniers" (big rich Syrah from Crozes Hermitage) which would be excellent value at anything less than around £7, although I cannot, hand-on-heart personally vouch for current vintages. You're unlikely to get a huge amount of help from a staff member facing a bleak Christmas and worrying future, but you never know...

quote:

I wish I were able to tell you which specific wines were worth a punt, but I haven't lived in the UK for three years

Rod, I have always found your advice helpful - and I'm sure there are others on here "in the know" who haven't been absent for so long!!

I'm lucky to have Waitrose < 200m away and BBR <10 miles away. But otherwise, I genuinely don't know of an independent wine merchant within 10 miles. Lots of little corner shops selling a few bottles and lots of petrol filling stations (mostly operated by Sainsbury, M&S, Tesco etc also selling a "range" of "specially imported" (well, we know that is euphamism for "crap") wines.

We have a Pork butcher in Newbury, there is (or was) a cheese shop in Streatly, but we now have to travel beyond Kingsclere to get to our usual butcher and as for a "grocer".......... Sad really.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by stephenjohn:
Debs,
I joined Virgin Wines on a recommendation from a friend - he brought some round for a meal that I cooked and it tasted very good. I don't buy very much but have received vouchers fro Virgin wines form various places - Amazom amoungst them - so I have had good wines at the same price as supermarket ones. It might be worth a look?
SJ

Hi SJ,

i've had a bit of a spat with Virgin Wines a couple of years back! : (

What happened was... i used a £20 money off voucher (that i received from a reputable clothing shop) to get money off a first order of 12 bottles of wine @ £60

The trouble was, the wine tasted awful, really awful (3 bottles down the kitchen sink plug hole).
So, long-story-short, they seem to ignore my requests to cancel my membership because three months later they automatically sent me another 12 bottle box-horror, the delivery man woke me from my night-shift sleep over, when i answered the door i told him to stick it where the sun don't shine please take it back kind sir i don't want it very sorry.

But they'd also automatically removed £60 from my account! : <

I did get a refund eventually but it took a lot of phone calls and agro etc...

i just want an easy life, honest! : )

Debs

I've had a look around locally, and found Tanners-Wines seem have many branches around the Welsh Marches area.

Does anyone have any experience of this wine merchant?

I may just as well buy a few sample bottles there to check it out : )

Debs

quote:

Originally posted by rodwsmith:

If it's any comfort, supermarket wine in France and Germany is in a very similar boat though.

Cheers

Rod

I was very surprised to find this to be true when I moved away from the UK. I thought that the French would care more about the quality of what they drink and that all of the poor stuff would be exported. I spent quite a lot of time and money buying from Carrefour and the others before I realised that this is not true. The only times that I buy from them now are when they have the annual wine fair or I fancy one of the interesting local wines (which I suspect are local and not corporate bought). Fortunately there is an excellent wine merchant in town who seems to really care.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cr%C3%A9mant_du_Jura_AOC

quote:

Originally posted by naim_nymph:
I've had a look around locally, and found Tanners-Wines seem have many branches around the Welsh Marches area.

Does anyone have any experience of this wine merchant?

I may just as well buy a few sample bottles there to check it out : )

Debs

Debs,

Tanners are excellent. They have a very fine range. What kind of things do you like? I'm happy to have a look through their list and make some recommendations for you. Taste, of course, is very personal, and if you can actually get to a shop, I am sure there will be things to try and qualified people on hand to help.

Santé

Rod

Tanners looks like a an excellent store, I little far to travel, for me.
Does anyone know of a similar set-up in the SE corner?
We don't drink a huge amount, perhaps a couple of bottles a month, so don't get a huge amount of "practice" time, then it's usually supermarket stuff, and ultimately disappointing.

Tanners wines

Looks interesting but.....

A quick flick throught the Burgundy and Bordeaux lists shows fewer than half a dozen bottles at under £10.

Have we drifted off track here? I thought N-N was looking for 20 bottles a year at £6 a piece = £120 pa including delivery.

Perhaps I will take more time to explore their site this evening.

Cheers

Don

Yes it looks like Debs requirements are similar to ours.
If anyone can produce a sensible list it would be appreciated.

Howard

Unfortunately, the supermarkets want to offer three for a tenner as that it whast the public wants - apparently!

How much do you want to pay? There are some good wines in supermarkets - in fact given the pressure on suppliers and the competitiveness of the market there should not be a bad wine as such.

The point is that duty alone is about £1-60 a bottle and then there's the vat on top. Plus the supermarket margin 30% plus the cost of the bottle and closure and the cost of transport plus the producer's margin etc. SO on a cheap wine - how much is the actual liquid in the bottle worth???? What sort of quality of liquid would you expect for that price?

In theory every extra pound spent should result in a better experience as the other factors remain pretty constant.

The supermakets have done a lot to bring affordable wine to the public without the intimidation of going into what were stuffy wine merchants where you often felt like you were looked don on for not spending enough or not knowing what was in a Bordeaux blend etc.

However, they have also resulted in some bland and own label brand blends where the wine might be the same even if the labels are different.

Supermarkets are also rationalising their lines inthe present economic climate so some competing wines in the mid to high price points have been cut out giving less choice as they stock up at the lower price end.

Off licences are struggling - Unwins gone and soon Thresher, Wine Rack etc to follow. Oddbins are making a comeback since bought back by the son of the original founder and would be my recommndation for an independant now they are getting back to what they did before Castel bught them.

Majestic are doing well and have a good selcetion. The only problem is that you have to buy at least six bottles although you can buy a mixed case

I have moved up the price ladder a bit so buy in the £8+ per bottle range, especially if I want something special. Personal likes are:
Tim Adams Clare Valley Shiraz - £12 a bottle or his Aberfeldy at £30
Whither Hills CHardonnay - £8 ish a bottle - sometimes cheaper at Majestic.
Penfolds Bin 28 £12 ish, McGill Estate £30 and also their RWT £45
Henscke Henrys 7 £15 - or their Mount Edelstone if you can afford £45. Used to be in Waitrose but are now stocked by the WIne Society.
Paul Sauer Kanonkop -South African Bordeaux blend about £18
I also buy French but mainly good Chateauneuf du Pape which benefits from a bit of time (5yrs from vintage.) I can also recommend Tronquoy Lalande St Estephe Bordeaux at about £16 a bottle.

Cheaper wines which I like come from the Cassilero del Diablo range - about £7 but sometimes cheaper. Different supermakets stock different varieties so you may need to look around to find what you want. Merlot and Carmeniere are soft fruity and tasty.

Even wines on offer are rarely "on offer" - the offer price being what they are probably worth. However, there is also cross subsidy going on to get punters in the stores to buy other things so some genuine bargains can be had.

I second (third) the recommnedation for the Wine Society, especially if you can then go to their tastings.

As with hifi so much depends on what you like and how much you want to pay. There can be a lot of wine snobbery and the law of diminishing returns applies.

I'd love to try the first growth clarets but noyt at £600 a bottle! After all it will be down the loo the next day!

There are plenty of good wines out there.

I don't think supremarket wines taste awful - your glugging palate might vary...