(UK) Why does Supermarket Wine always tastes awful?

How funny, a quick google search uncovers the same company still in business but now called 'The International Wine Centre' in Luton!

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Originally posted by rodwsmith:
Too cold is worse of all. Less than 5° for any length of time will cause damage, as will wide fluctuations.

Excuse my ignorance but surely the major supermarkets store and transport wine outside these parameters?

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Originally posted by Voltaire:

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Originally posted by Manni:

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Originally posted by Voltaire:
Years ago when I was young and thin I used to work as a door to door salesman for a very dodgy but highly profitable wine company. They trained us the whole speil about single grape estate bottled late harvest wine, etc but then they were indicted for adding antifreeze to their wines...


I still enjoy the odd Kabinett & Spatlese wine but my memory is forever branded with this experience.

Gordon

The antifreeze scandal ( 1985 ) concerned wines from Austria ( mainly Burgenland ) but not from Germany.

Manfred

Manfred, I am flatterd that you think I was able to be a door to door salesman as a teenager (1985) but I'm afraid I was refering to the early/mid 90's when I worked for the Pieroth brothers under their NTH brand name. They were accused of adding anti freeze (among other things) to wine and consequently focused their marketing efforts on their sister brand 'Vicomte Bernard de Romanet' which still trades.



It was a superb scam on reflection. We were taught to tell tales of monks pressing rare grapes into estate bottled wines and limited supply when in fact the 'wine' was manufactured in Luton within a bigger chemical plant then ICI. It is possible that because this was a uk scam the news never really broke in Germany.

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

concerning the Pieroth scandal you are right and wrong. Pieroth wines contained in fact antifreeze because this criminal trader mixed wines from Germany and Austria and sold them as German wines. Read here ( sorry in German: http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13515346.html ) As far as I know, German winegrowers never used antifreeze.

Manfred

Hi Gordon,

I`ve only heard from the Pieroth scandal 1985. After this event, I cannot believe, that they used antifreeze again a few years later. If you are right, they should not be allowed to sell wine at all.

Manfred

This whole antifreeze thing is very emotive and best consigned to the past IMO.

The scandal did for the Austrian (export) wine business completely and it is only now that this exceptionally fine wine producing country is regaining the place it so richly deserves on the world's wine stage - try (even a supermarket's) decent Grüner Veltliner to prove this for yourself.(Dry, pure, minerally, crisp slightly herbal, with hints of nuts and root-spice [angelica, ginger] - sophisticated white for fish and the bored-of-Sauvignon-Blanc.)

Some cheap Austrian wine was the victim here, and far from alone (it also applied to German wines, and even some Champagnes).

The adulteration, as the previous posts in indicate, was probably not made in the producing country and it is a huge shame so many local quality winemakers' livelihoods were destroyed in consequence.

The silver lining to this for us the consumers is that the only Austrian producers to have survived the last twenty years in the commercial wilderness, are the very good ones (Willi Opitz is the best name widely-ish available in the UK).

So, "antifreeze"...
Well, if this is expressed as "diethelene glycol" then it looks a bit less scary. It is a man-made (or at least synthesised) glycol - one of whose uses is as a sweetener. You are bound to have consumed it in plenty of things. It has known toxicity as high levels, although much higher than any adulterated wine will have been able to offer. Most other man made sweeteners are thought also to have carcinogenic properties, as indeed does caramel, which is natural. You wouldn't drink Diet-Anything if you'd read the research into some of the things that make them taste the way they do.

The use of a man-made sweetening agent to make crappy wine taste a bit more palatable was illegal (with some exceptions it still is illegal to sweeten wine for sale, the sweetness should occur naturally). They used Diethelene Glycol because, by dint of not being natural, yeast cannot ferment it (which would have rather ruined the effect). Viable yeast still being present is also an indication of crappy wine, and moderately costly to remove.

It so happens that adding a glycol to water will lower its freezing point. Adding any sugar to water will lower its freezing point. In fact adding pretty much anything to water will lower its freezing point. The most common thing used is, of course, salt. You don't hear fish and chip shops being accused of offering "antifreeze'n'vinegar" with their food (or indeed "antifreeze'n'antifreeze" because vinegar will also do the trick).

It so happened that when the story broke first in 1985 the headline "Wine has antifreeze added" was more catchy than "Wine has man-made synthesised sugar which might, although it has not been proven, constitute a health risk in high doses, added".

If you dab a little of your car's antifreeze on your finger and taste it you will notice that is is indeed sweet, which is why they usually dye it blue - to stop children from drinking it.

Buy some Austrian wine - this whole thing was not their fault. It was Gordon's ex-boss's fault! And it was, quite literally, a lifetime ago.

Prost!

Rod

Hi Rod,

thanks for your information, I agree completely. Today, many wines from Austria are excellent, I like particulary the dry white wines from the Wachau.

Manfred

Ampelo/Primitivo/Merlot Tarantino
The 'decanting' trick seemed to work very well with the Ampelo... I may have been a bit negative with my initial assessment but can now happily confirm this fruity wine has my thumbs-up!
Glad i bought a whole case of this : )

~<>~

However, my present try-out is the Marius Reserva

Almansa, Bodegas Piqueras 2005 | Bin SR00405 £7.60

The Blurb... Almansa lies just 100kms inland from Valencia where the perfect climate provides ideal growing conditions. Mainly Tempranillo with 18 months in American oak, fully mature with spicy fruit on the nose and a rich, full palate.

Style: Medium-bodied
Drinking Time: Now
Grape Varieties: 70% Tempranillo, 20% Mourvèdre (Monastrell), 10% Garnacha Tintorera

Appropriately called Reserva because no doubt it’s reserved for unsuspecting victims such as I, who are clueless on wine and like to gamble on luck...
It has nice colour, and good body. The acceptable bouquet is deceptive too because unfortunately the taste is a huge disappointment. With hints of recycled pulp of vintage LP cardboard sleeve (to give it that body perhaps), and sweaty-sock back taste, this is very unpleasant. I’ve left it on the kitchen top for a few days, in quiet indignation (i don't think the decanting trick would work on this one) will try it once more <grimace> but will probably decant it down the plug hole of the sink. Lucky I only bought one bottle of this!

...but never mind, will try a bottle of something else tomorrow : )

Debs

Hi Debs

It sounds as though this particular bottle is/was cork tainted - especially your recyled pulp cardboard comment. Did the flavour fit with what is described here?

Corked taint gets worse with oxygen not better - so it all adds up. I think that Tanners would probably be prepared to refund this bottle on this basis (send them a link to this thread maybe) although it is not my call and they are perfectly within their rights to demand the return of the bottle with some/most of its contents.

It is totally understandable but a bit unfair to blame or dismiss a wine on the basis of one corked bottle as it can (and does) happen to any wine, which is one of the reasons for the rise of screwcaps.

Definitely worth letting Tanners know anyway I'd say.

Better luck with the next one!

Rod

Note to moderator: please would you remove the 's' in taste(s) in the title. So it reads...
(UK) Why does Supermarket Wine always taste awful?

Thank you!
Debs

p.s. lucky the spelling/grammar police aren't around

Oh, and "Reserva" means aged in oak by the way, and is governed by law (in Spain anyway), although how long in barrel depends on where in Spain it's from.

quote:

Originally posted by rodwsmith:
Hi Debs
It sounds as though this particular bottle is/was cork tainted - especially your recyled pulp cardboard comment. Did the flavour fit with what is described here?
Better luck with the next one!

Rod

Hello Rod,

thanks for super-quick reply!

I can confirm that the Marius Reserva cork was a real cork (unlike the Ampelo one that is plasticy)

...Corked wine containing TCA has a characteristic odor, variously described as resembling a moldy newspaper, wet dog, damp cloth, or damp basement. In almost all cases of corked wine the wine's native aromas are reduced significantly, and a very tainted wine is completely undrinkable (though harmless). While the human threshold for detecting TCA is measured in the single-digit parts per trillion, this can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on an individual's sensitivity.

Essence of moldy newspaper! That's it!
I'm sure one doesn't need to be very sensitive!

Debs

Angel's Flight Merlot ~ California 2007 (Bin UR02507)

Style: Medium-bodied
Drinking Time: Now
Grape Varieties: 100% Merlot

The blurb... This is classic Merlot - full of plum jam fruit with succulence and a hint of spice. This red is ripe and robust, full in the mouth with charming, easy drinking fruit.

Have been enjoying my festive luncheons with the aid of this Californian merlot. Quite agreeable from the get-go. It seems very strong in alcohol, i wonder if it may have been fortified but the bottle only suggests 13.5%Vol.
Maybe this is because I guzzled down half a bottle too quick before starting to eat. Does not taste as organic or fruity as I’d prefer (like with the Ampelo), but despite this it’s certainly is easy to drink with no nasty traits for me to get picky about.
It’s fascinating how different all these wines are in taste from each other. This is great fun! : )

Debs

RE:Urziger Wurzgarten Dr Hermann Reisling Auslese 2004

Just finished this off, the daughter had a glass with dinner yesterday.
Very drinkable slightly more sweet than my daughter likes, but smooth and enjoyable.
We'll definately visit again.

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Originally posted by BigH47:
RE:Urziger Wurzgarten Dr Hermann Reisling Auslese 2004

Just finished this off, the daughter had a glass with dinner yesterday.
Very drinkable slightly more sweet than my daughter likes, but smooth and enjoyable.
We'll definately visit again.

I had a 2005 Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Riesling ( not Reisling! ) Spätlese trocken just recently, it was very fruity ( peaches, green apples ) with refreshing acid.

A Leoville Poyferré 2000 was very nice as well, much concentration and length, it needs time to breathe as it is still a bit young.

Manfred

Addition: The Riesling I mentioned was from Fritz Haag.

Manfred

quote:

Originally posted by naim_nymph:
Note to moderator: please would you remove the 's' in taste(s) in the title. So it reads...
(UK) Why does Supermarket Wine always taste awful?

Thank you!
Debs

p.s. lucky the spelling/grammar police aren't around

Hey Howard... i think i spoke too soon!

Hi Manfred

I haven't tried a white wine for years, although the last few were truely awful, kind of puts one off...
But perhaps i will try one (or two) again soon, i know they can taste lovely (unless bought from a Supermarket)

Debs

Concha y Toro Merlot

Central Valley (Mountain Range) 2008 | Bin QR02108

Style: Medium-bodied
Drinking Time: Now : P
Grape Varieties: 100% Merlot

The blurb... Bursting with cherry and ripe, red berry fruits intertwined with pepper and a touch of coffee bean. Elegant and medium bodied, this is an easy, pleasing all-rounder, delicious with pasta, ham and cheese.

This one has a screw cap (so no nasty corking here) and tastes quite nice from the get-go.
A bit more natural in taste to the Angel's Flight bottle that i finished yesterday ...which is a testament to that one being quite good ; )

But this Red Chilean 'Concha y Toro' Merlot is the best of my mixed bunch so far, ironically it's also the less costly at only £5.90 a bottle. A very good buy! : )

Cheers me dears!

Debs

Hi Debs

Delighted the Chilean Merlot did the trick - always a good bet.

Merlot is a very hard grape variety to dislike, and it would not be possible to 'design' a country (even if one is Slartibartfast or God of some description) that were more suitable for growing grapevines, and plenty of other crops, than Chile. Long and thin, it has every conceivable climate from dry arid desert to permafrost and grows everything from cactus in the north to edelweiss in the south.

Has the additional advantage of hardly any rain (because of enormous ocean hitting massive mountain range, the precipitation almost all falls as snow on in the mountains) but abundant natural irrigation from snow-melt.

Almost all Chilean wine is in consequence organic (or more correctly made from organically grown fruit) as there are simply hardly any natural pests and diseases for the grower to need to combat. Not necessarily certified (that costs big money) but natural and chemical free.

I imagine Chilean wine will get increasingly expensive - I think theirs is the strongest economy in central and south America, but their largest export market is the States and they are not buying much at the moment.

Hope you carry on enjoying, and happy new year

Rod

Marqués de Cáceres Tinto Crianza Rioja 2005 £8.60 a bottle

Style: Medium-bodied
Drinking Time: Now
Grape Varieties: 85% Tempranillo, 15% Garnacha

The blurb... Marques de Cáceres displays a remarkable consistency in the quality of its wines, the Crianza being the perfect example. 15 months in oak, ripe fruit aroma and claret-like palate of fruit, supple tannin and balancing acidity.

~<>~

Seriously lacking in body, the aroma is okay but it does have that cheap plonk taste.
But it is drinkable, just.
Wouldn't recommend it because there are much better merlot's around at a lower price.

Debs

quote:

Originally posted by rodwsmith:
Hi Debs
Delighted the Chilean Merlot did the trick - always a good bet...
Rod

Hello Rod,

I enjoyed the Concha y Toro so much i decided to quickly stock up with 18 bottles (bulk enough for free delivery). The price has gone up slightly, possible VAT increase, but it's still very affordable at £6.05 a bottle. They arrived last Friday and are now stowed away in my cellar (under-stair cupboard).

Last night i tried one these 18 bottles to find it not as pleasant as my trial bottle purchased a couple of weeks earlier. Exactly the same 2008 label but batch numbers on the 18 bottle supply differ from my earlier bottle, it's still nice enough drinkable red wine but just not the big hit that the sample bottle had. The aroma and taste has a noticeable slight acridness... maybe the de-canting trick will help?

Also, perhaps a bad Oman but i noticed the following day my local wine merchant slashed the price down to £5.29 a bottle... does he know something i don't?

Thanks for your very interesting account on Chile, i may be tempted into sampling more expensive reds from the region later in the year : )

Debs

Debs
Typically one is advised to store freshly traveled wine for a couple of weeks or more on their sides to allow them to settle before drinking

Derek,

i'll find out in a couple of weeks then! : )

Those bottles were very cold when they were delivered on Friday morning. I'm a bit worried if they've been affected by the freezing weather, they've probably been stored in an unheated warehouse.

Debs

Definitely allow them time to settle.

Remember that red wine would have been stored in the chateau cellar and so would get quite cool.

Reputable wine merchants will store their wine in temperature controlled conditions. I would think the biggest exposure to extreme temperature is during transportation.

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Reputable wine merchants will store their wine in temperature controlled conditions.

To the best of my knowledge, the one I worked in didn't. And I would be very surprised if supermarkets did either. Yet both had (or continue to have) some very good wines.

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by naim_nymph:
Those bottles were very cold when they were delivered on Friday morning. I'm a bit worried if they've been affected by the freezing weather, they've probably been stored in an unheated warehouse.

Debs

Hi Debs

As Derek and others have pointed out, long spells in very cold conditions will make the wine taste different, but it will recover (there is an argument that suggests it can even recover from actual freezing, on a chemical level, although I don't agree from personal experience, and of course it expands to such a degree that the airtight seal will be broken (ever left a bottle in the freezer by mistake?). It takes very low temperatures to freeze wine solid because of the alcohol, glycerol and sugars in it.

Inevitably recently it will have got very cold though, so a few weeks will settle it down (very much the same for wine that has flown - because of the extremes of temperature and pressure that the cargo hold is subjected to. If you are ever flying wine for drinking when you get there [hand luggage no longer being an option] then request space in the livestock hold, which is kept warm and pressurised for obvious reasons, although not all aeroplanes have one).

Your local wine merchant cutting their price on a particular wine is no sign either way - January is the time for people to shift that which they over-ordered in December. Bad luck maybe, bad omen let's hope not...

Sorry that the Rioja disappointed, probably more a wine for food (especially oily stuff like chorizo and patatas bravas). Caceres is a big brand, and one of the more 'supermarkety' offerings that the region produces. I'm a bit surprised Tanners stock it to be honest.

Cheers

Rod