FlatCap2 = Boom Boom2 :(

quote:

---

Just got myself a no brainer upgrade - flatcap2 to complete my entry level naim system. cd5/nait5

But alas after fixing up & power up the system within 15min... i was welcome by the unbearable boom.. nothing was touch to the speaker placement....

---

Wayne

I have a Hicap (2nd hand about same price as Flatcap) driving a 112/150 so not the same as you.
BUT
When I provided the system with the extra "headroom" that comes from the external power supply, the signal spectrum opened up considerably.
Basically I expect you are getting more powerfull bass which is one of the key benefits that come from this upgrade.
More powerfull bass could mean "boom" where there was no "boom" before, simply because you never had that much signal before.

Try some speaker moving to see if you can get a new position in your listening room where the "boom" is reduced. It is worth persevering because the overall audio quality upgrade you can experience with a Flatcap or Hicap is really significant.

You don't say what sort of speakers you have, but if they don't "do" deep bass they may also be part of the problem because they are now being challenged with a larger audio range. But try moving their positions first.

regards

GEOFFP

GEOFFP

I've just added a Hicap to my 72/140 and have found that the bass seems to have increased too.

I'd agree with the others that you should probably try experimenting with speaker placement to allow for the new signal reaching them.

Regards,
Steve

...And move the flatcap! It should be as far away from the Nait (and CD player) as possible. Can you put it on the floor next to the Nait?

Phil

Hi guys,

im using a pair of rega ela mk2a... didnt know it would produce that kind of boom though. they r known 2 produce tuneful, tight bass... not loose boom bass

hey any recommendation on the placement of flatcap2 s mention in my first post?

regards

Wayne

When you add a flatcap, the bandwidth increases significantly so you get more extension. The upgrade has probably highlighted a room resonance mode - it's not actually the speakers that are doing it! This isn't unexpected and the fix is to move the speakers to a new location to avoid the problem, usually firther away from the closest wall boundary.

You should give the flatcap 3 days to a week to run in. That will have burned it in enough so you can move the speakers about with good results that'll last a while.

As to flatcap2 placement, there's not going to be much difference whichever way you place it given the options you've offerred since the toroid in the flatcap has a symmetrical magnetic field below and above it. There might be detail differences, but it's likely to be light. If it were me, I'd place the flatcap below the amp since there's a little more shielding courtesy of the main board, but this is going to have a very minor effect. More importantly, when plugging the flatcap to the other components, don't lock the DIN plugs. Plug them right in, but then pull the locking ring off the amp housingand let it rest on the plug's body. That has a remarkable 'freeing up' effect on the music. Obviously, don't leave it like this if you have kids/cats that like going for trailing wires...

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

...if a Hicap can be used to power two devices? I know it ins't intedned to the way a FlatCap 2 is, but in another thread a Supercap was used to power both a CD5 and preamp.

Just wondering if the same can be done with a hicap.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Flatcap2 connections with NAIT5/CD5:

Check your connections thoroughly. Are you using Flatcap power output "A" with the Nait5, and power output "B" with the CD5? (power output "B" is not suitable for the Nait). Do you have a Snaic-4 to connect signal from the Flatcap into the Nait5 poweramp input?(The orange ribbon cable link is removed from the Nait in this configuration so that system ground is referenced to the Flatcap). Also make sure that your Snaic's have the correct direction. The "banded" end should go to the signal source.

Chris West

Naim USA.

Greg,

The Hicap must only be used with one device.

regards

Chris West

Naim USA.

...so the HiCap can't be cabled to power two devices like the SuperCap can?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

HICAP:

The HICAP has a single powered output socket and it can only be used with one device. Earlier versions have an alternate 4-pin powered socket, but this must NOT be used to power something simultaneously with the 5-pin powered socket.

Regards

Chris West

Naim USA.

Hi guys,

I have heed frank advice by rearranging the setup.

Now the flatcap is directly right below the nait5. i have also loosen up all the naic/snaic... upon powering up, i could hear improvement but still not there yet.

My galfriend came over, was frowned by the new stack of black box, complain the dimmer logo light resulting in uneven matching of the whole system & even so furious upon hearing them... i have a hard time explaining to her that things will get better each day though i'm not too sure myself.

Wayne

...and take good care of my Allaes when they arrive

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

"As to flatcap2 placement, there's not going to be much difference whichever way you place it given the options you've offerred since the toroid in the flatcap has a symmetrical magnetic field below and above it. There might be detail differences, but it's likely to be light. If it were me, I'd place the flatcap below the amp since there's a little more shielding courtesy of the main board, but this is going to have a very minor effect"


Frank,

(Presuming these are stacked, rather than on separate shelves) I would have guessed that the NAIT would benefit more from being in contact with the support than the flatcap.

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

I have just added a fc2 to a cd5/nait5 and what a revelation !
10 times better in terms of listenability. Straight cd5/nait5 was ok , improved by adding a Sugden A21 which destroyed the Nait but the fc2 has got the Nait getting there, better in bass but still lacking tonal colour, midband clarity and treble smoothness. The fc2 has improved the cd 5 into a real class cdp, adding definition and smoothness to an already punchy , musical player.
Persivere with the fc2 as it performs excellently.
When I recall thinking the 112/150 wasn't that much better than the Nait, the fc2 is def a worthwhile upgrade, thats my opinion !

Hi Guys,

My latest update on the boom...

1. Loosening up the naic/snaic has really tense down the music - 'freely' the music s frank have mention. wow that was a great tips!!! thanks man.

2. After a good 8 hours... the boom has reduce drastically but still not the ideal yet.

3. The speaker is better controlled : )

Wayne

Hi guys,

lousy question i got but it gonna be the answer for my galfriend - she keep burgering me the reduction of music enjoyment ever since the flatcap2 upgrade

'I dunno whether you are upgrade in sound or in numbers of boxes' she say.

The question is - Does Flatcap2 need burn-in? Does SNAIC need burn in as well??

haha definitely an improvement for my Naim Knowledge Management...

Regards

Wayne

Wayne,
Why not give Vik a call. I think he will be able to help you with it and advise you accordingly.

I would like to second the question above about the addition of a *-cap decreasing the music somehow.

I know the Standard Forum Answer is that a *-cap improves everything - unless the *-cap is buggered or a gazillion years old and hence in need of a recap.

But I remember comparing Nait 3, 72/140, and 72/140/hicap and it seemed that with the addition of each box and cable, some of the "coherence" that we heard with the Nait was lost. We got more slam, more bass, more depth to the sound - but the end result was a bit disjointed. Certainly could be that I was using very mediocre DIY supports and things were getting buggered up along the way.

I also recall reading in other threads, especially about the beloved Nait 2, that the naits have wonderful coherence.

Anyone else experience this loss when adding boxes?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

quote:

---

Anyone else experience this loss when adding boxes?

---

Currently going through this pain myself trying out a new, on-loan, Hicap with my 282/200. Lots of obvious benefits with the Hicap in place but since it went in I just havn't been getting on with the system the way I did.

Along with the arrival of a deeper more powerful bass there is just so much more going on but I'm finding the system now sounding rather big and overwhelming. The result is that I don't seem able to switch out the sound of the system and just get on with listening to the music. The hicap has been in place for a week now and its been so frustrating I could tear my hair out. I want to like it for all the good things it does but in my system, in my room and to my ears it's just not working out.

I know I have room issues that I'm working on so perhaps the dem is a bit premature but I also feel that in some ways I've been using a pre-amp without hicap as some form of bandwidth filter downstream of the CDS2. Putting the hicap in place is simply opening the floodgates and freeing up too much energy from the CDS2. More than I (or my room) can cope with right now. Setup is immaculate so I'm sure its not a problem with the equipment.

It is a rather worrying result though I must admit. I'm going to try replacing the CDS2/XPS with a CDX2 (with and without xps) later this week to see how that works out. I have a feeling that this will allow me to gain the benefits of putting a hicap on the pre-amp without being forced to cope with the more powerful bass of the CDS2. Not exactly source first but possibly more balanced and satisfying overall.

Allan

Hi Greg,

I have the same sentiment as well.

For my case adding the flatcap2 increases the level of hifi attribute but the level of coherence reduces.

Regards

Wayne

"For my case adding the flatcap2 increases the level of hifi attribute but the level of coherence reduces."

I was hoping this was down to the older SNAICs and me not using good supports. What is your kit sitting on?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Hi Greg,

I have to admit that my supports is one of the weakest link right now.

It is a generic classic hifi rack, those 3 hollow circular legged tier (2 tier) with generic black mdf board. The cd5 is on the top shelf, nait5 is directly sitted on top of the flatcap2 together at the bottom shelf.

Regards

Wayne

Hi guys,

After taking some pointers from Carrera since his last visit, i shifted the flatcap2 away from the nait5.

Now my nait5 has started to sing like never before

My next move will be a better rack & naim tuner.
Checkmate - i got a wonderful game in the name of naim!!!

regards

Wayne

I've had similar bass problems since adding a FC2. So I extracted it from the Stageline then the Nait and the bass problem receded somewhat, but didn't disappear, unfortunately so did all the wonderful things I've got used to.. so Hampton Hawes was playing what seemed like a small plastic piano tonight, Ornette Coleman a plastic saxaphone .. ooh ..forget the last one it was a plastic saxaphone. The problem was there all along and I was just not discriminating enough to hear it. I'm left with unpalatable prospect of either moving speakers or buying a new house. Estate agents tomorrow then.


John

Props to Shahreza for Hampton Hawes recommendation!

quote:

---

Originally posted by maserluv:
Hi guys,

After taking some pointers from Carrera since his last visit, i shifted the flatcap2 away from the nait5.

Now my nait5 has started to sing like never before

My next move will be a better rack & naim tuner.
Checkmate - i got a wonderful game in the name of naim!!!

regards

Wayne

---

Maserluv,
Glad to hear that you solve your boom.

Anyway I have always found it strange. I have no experience with Fraim. However, it does seem that if one uses a fraim, the boxes are really close to one another. And if there is much benefit from putting the boxes far away from each other, then why is fraim designed this way?