Heathrow

Chaps

The time to assess this is in a months time. The reality of life is that any complex facility will have teething problems.

Regards

Mick

Munch

There is no need to be offensive. People like you make the world a much less pleasant place to live in.

T5 cost billions and is enormously complex, teething problems although irritating are inevitable. I would tend to judge BAA by the way they handle the current situation and look after the customers who have been affected rather than just slagging off for the sake of it.

Regards

Mick

Mick

quote:

I would tend to judge BAA by the way they handle the current situation and look after the customers who have been affected rather than just slagging off for the sake of it.

It's BA's responsibility to look after their customers and not BAA. They have done a piss poor job of that by all accounts as well.

How would you have reacted if your flight to Spain had been cancelled and your bags been among the 20,000 piled up around the airport? Would you still have seen it as a little irritation and been so understanding of the "teething problems"?

You work in procurement/contracts as I recall....what if a supplier of yours had screwed up so royally on a new service or piece of work?

You have been quiet for a long time on here so maybe it's kinder, gentler and more accepting version of you that has reappeared!

Cheers

Jim

It is another case of the Chinese royally showing us up, they built an entire airport, which they claim will handle more flights than the entirety of Heathrow in less time than it took to get planning for T5 through, and I haven't ever lost a bag in a Chinese airport!

Maybe we should motivate BA/BAA employees by removing their human rights Chinese style?

quote:

It is another case of the Chinese royally showing us up, they built an entire airport, which they claim will handle more flights than the entirety of Heathrow in less time than it took to get planning for T5 through, and I haven't ever lost a bag in a Chinese airport!

They probably have the death penalty for a lost bag,tends to focus the mind.

Jim

It is difficult to apportion blame on whether it is BAA or BA or both, almost certain both take a share. I agree that between the two of them they have made a mess and there is certainly a case for compensation.

However my point is that nearly every large facility of this size and complexity will have teething troubles and I am certain that both parties are working to resolve the problems.

Regards

Mick

Mick

quote:

However my point is that nearly every large facility of this size and complexity will have teething troubles and I am certain that both parties are working to resolve the problems.

I would have expected teething problems but it is the scale of them and the lack of contingency planning that astounds me.

205 flights cancelled during the first three days is days abominable but the good news is that only 15% of BA's flights were cancelled today...only 15% - that's 37 flights today and 54 already cancelled for Monday already.

Cheers

Jim

I don't think that China's human rights record has much to do with it really, they have just become massively more efficient than we are. They might have a somewhat authoritarian government, but having worked for a company which in turn does a lot of business with the Chinese government I have to say that I think their portrayal in the western media is rather unfair. Reporting is somewhat selective, and generally negative. In many respects the state is no more intrusive than Britain under "New Labour", just the use of the death penalty is culturally far more acceptable than it is in a nation with a deeply Christian morality. You never hear very much about the fact that almost all Chinese people will have running water and mains electricity by 2012 as a result of massive government projects.

If all that was reported of Britain was that our police have a habit of beating geriatric fox hunting protesters over the head, shooting Brazilian electricians and detaining "terrorist suspects" including 80 year old men who heckle the PM without charge then you wouldn't think too much of our human rights record.

“a somewhat authoritarian government”

Are you on medication?
If not try telling this to the people of Tibet, the survivors of Tiananmen Square, etc.

Amnesty International currently list its' major concerns in China as:-

Death penalty

Fair trial and prevention of torture and ill-treatment

Protection of human rights defenders

Freedom of expression and information



More information about China from the A.I. website.

“The death penalty is culturally far more acceptable than it is in a nation with a deeply Christian morality” Like in the U.S.A. For example?

You are right that in the UK we have seen an alarming erosion of our civil liberties & freedom under Blair/Brown. But as my mum would say “two wrongs don't make a right”.
At least we have a relatively free press, so when things like the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes happen we find out.

If you look on the AI website you will find their campaigns related human rights in the U.K. (along with other countries that might surprise including the U.S.A.), but what we currently face in the U.K. from our government does not compare with the plight of the Chinese under their regime.

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:

T5 cost billions and is enormously complex, teething problems although irritating are inevitable.

Regards

Mick

Teething problems? Looks to me a lot more like a near total system failure.

For some weeks now they have been all over the media bragging about how wonderful the baggage handling system in T5 is. How it had a back-up system in case of failure. How it had been so thoroughly tested. Someone didn't get their Systems Engineering right.

Willy.

I can confirm that the systems in T5 HAVE been trialled extensively over the last few months. Whether the trials represented real world conditions, I don't know.
I work for BA as cabin crew, & when I did my familiarisation tour & trial, we were told that "today is to be a positive day, we are NOT interested in hearing criticsisms or negative comments". Everything is already set in stone & whatever we said or questioned won't change anything.
Whilst I am not sure of the % split blame between BA & BAA, we in BA certainly do have some very arrogant & intransigent managers who sadly are also incompetent in extremis.
Apologies from a"front-line" BA staff member to anyone effected by this balls-up.
Matt.

I wasn't being an apologist for the Chinese regime by any means, I was making the point that it is always the negatives about China that are emphasized. They are hardly the most uncaring regime about, they actually do things for their population like the electrification scheme my former employer is involved in. Contrast that with the treatment of Indian labourers in the UAE, something that it hardly ever mentioned in the news.

quote:

Originally posted by djftw:
I wasn't being an apologist for the Chinese regime by any means, I was making the point that it is always the negatives about China that are emphasized. They are hardly the most uncaring regime about, they actually do things for their population like the electrification scheme my former employer is involved in. Contrast that with the treatment of Indian labourers in the UAE, something that it hardly ever mentioned in the news.

Fair enough djftw, but I think the Chinese Government are far more brutal & oppressive than you realise. Please look at the A.I. website if you doubt me.

The situation of immigrant workers in the UAE, along with similar issues is mentioned often in the news, if you get your news from the 'right' sources.

Jonathan

Galleries Club looks particularity nice. Thanks for the link.

Jim